NewHampshireBillsFan

I'd like to vote neither. I could care less what anyone has done outside of football, I only care about the Bills winning a SB sometime in my lifetime. That totally trumps everything else. It is not a joke that the Bills have never won the SB, it is a painful reality and the chance to win a SB should be the only thing that matters in player selection. Not only would I take Vick if he could help us I would even take Belicheat* if he were available. The problem with Vick is he never was a very good passer, and coming out of prison and not playing for 2 years he is likely to be worse. More than that it would be insane to bring in any available potential starting QB to compete with Trent. We have to give him this year to see if he can really step up and be the QB of the future. He has a lot of potential and we have to see if it pans out this year. This is not the time to give up on him and try some wild card. I mean even TO signed with the Bills knowing that Trent would be the QB.

Don't forget the word on Mike Williams was that he was a really nice guy and a player of "character", who wouldn't be an embarrassment off the field for the Bills. The only problem was he was a too nice of a guy to defensive linemen and an embarrassment on the field for the Bills. Personally, I wish the Bills would stop trying to pick "character" players. Look at Belicheat*, he has no "character" himself and doesn't want nice guy players with "character", look at Wolfork. I like a number 1 pick like M. Lynch a lot better than Mike Williams or Donte Whitner, for that matter. He plays with intensity and I could care less what he does off the field. Just win baby.

He is not a Bills fan and as far as I can tell he never has been a Bills fan. From the time he was a kid he was interested in the business end of the NFL is what Goodell states in Fortune magazine. Anyway, perhaps I have not seen all the quotes by him and I would be happy to retract this statement if anyone has any evidence that he ever was a serious Bills fan. Growing up in Jamestown alone doesn't make him a Bills fan, although it really should have done so. For example I met a Patsie* fan here in New England who claims the woman who is his wife is from Buffalo. When I asked what football team she supports he said the Pats*, now that she is married to him. That doesn't sound right. I had to wonder if she really supports the Patsies*, or if she really is from Buffalo, or even that his wife is really a woman for that matter. No real Buffalonian could ever become a Patsie* fan, could they?

Jabari Greer yes, Jason Peters no. I see Peters fighting injuries on and off during his first year at Philly.

On coaching: 1.) Buffalo really is cheap in this modern era and doesn't want to pay a lot for coaching and it hurts us. 2.) Some teams are willing to pay a lot for coaching but still don't get great coaching. Example is the Redskins with an over the hill 3 time super bowl winning coach (Gibbs) who no longer had anything special but coached the team to mediocrity for years. 3.) Some teams have the money to pay a lot for coaching but the owner wants to be the big shot like with Jerry Jones in Dallas and so hires our old friend Wade Phillips. 4.) Some supposedly fantastic coaches have long stretches where their team doesn't really do that great like Fisher in TN, Shanahan in Denver, and even Cowher in Pittsburgh who won one SB in all the what, 15 years he was HC. These coaches definitely make the playoffs more often than the Bills. 5.) The NJ Jets should have the money to get a great coach and went with Rex Ryan (who I like) but in many ways how is Ryan different from Greg Williams or Mike Mularkey, both of whom were also promising assistants when first hired. So even though the Bills are cheap other teams often hire the same type of coaches we have hired. I guess the bottom line is there is no certainty that any coach will bring certain success. Belicheat* is both a great coach and a great cheater* but even with him* how much of the SB wins have been Brady.

When you win your players are rated high, when you lose they are not rated high, even if statistically they may be good, except in rare cases where a player is really exciting. OJ got great press even when the Bills were terrible because he was the most exciting running back of all time in the open field. Also, running backs are on the field a lot more than return men. Bottom line though is the Bills have been in a decade long depression and we have a lot of climbing up to do to get back on the radar screen for non local fans. The good news is one good season and we will be right back there. Maybe 2009!

The running backs often looked like they had to do a lot on their own. The passing game often had to focus on the short game. Other factors like QB also play into it and clearly other OL besides Peters play into the line play. In any case despite the feeling at the end of 07, after 08 the Bills felt like they had to redo the entire line. Another thing is other teams have not feared the Bills OL. I remember in 2007 before one of the two games with the Bills, Belicheat* was commenting on the Bills during his weekly radio interview, and he* stated that Buffalo has a lot of good players at the SKILL positions, emphasizing the word skill. He specifically mentioned Evans and Lynch and some others. The point is he* was trying to think of good things to say about Buffalo before the game, etc. like coaches always do about opponents, and he never said a word about the OL as an issue for him, but focused on the skill positions as being worthy of respect.

I would feel worse about JP being gone if: 1.) The line with him played great the last few years. Face it, he has never been part of a line that was special. That is not all his fault but he hasn't seemed to be any kind of spark for the OL. 2.) He has had injury issues and I predict he will again this year with Philly. 3.) He was the ultimate jerk towards his team and protecting TE. He didn't feel bad giving up a sack when he thought about his salary. Personally, I would have a sick sort of feeling right now if the Bills had signed him up for $10 million a year with a lot of guaranteed money. Injuries, lack of motivation, lack of gelling with the other guys on the line, could all have been negatives this year with JP. I don't think the line as a whole would have played better this year with him versus without him.

You don't consider Sam Wyche and Turk Schonert real QB coaches? Sam Wyche is a former HC who spent a whole off season with JP to get him prepared. In any case teams that have "real QB coaches" obviously don't feel he has the potential to take a shot at him, and these expert QB coaches can evaluate JP's potential a lot better than any of us can. Although I don't think our coaches have been among the top coaches in the league for the most part in the last few years, it isn't fair to blame them for JP's failure as an NFL QB.

Everything you say is possible except the TO rant. I don't see that happening. The most that could happen is that he says something like "we could have won and I was definitely open some plays" or something like that. And a lot of players might say things like that after a loss. TO will be a good addition at least this year based on all that has happened with him up to now in Buffalo and everything he has said to date, which is quite a bit.

Three possibilities: 1.) Belicheat* is a pathological cheater* who* cheats even when it doesn't really help him. I guess Jimmy Johnson, Herm Edwards, and most Patsie fans feel that way. I don't think Belicheat* is all that nice a guy but pathological is a bit much for me. 2.) Belicheat* is so clueless of league rules he* didn't even know he* was cheating. That would make no sense because one thing Belicheat* is always given credit for is that he* is totally aware of all the nuances of NFL rules. There may be a few people who think Belicheat* is clueless but I think most people in their hearts realize that is not the case. 3.) Belicheat* knows better than Jimmy Johnson, Herm Edwards, Patsies*, etc. exactly what cheating he* did and how each type of cheating* benefited him*. I think Belicheat* considers himself* very shrewd. I would agree with Belicheat* in this assessment and therefore #3 is the possibility that makes sense to me and fits all the facts. No way is Belicheat* a pathological cheater or a clueless coach. Even DJ doesn't seem so clueless that he wouldn't know rules. I don't think JJ and Herm Edwards are stupid either but they may not know the full extent of Belicheat's machinations. Tim Graham mentioned that he talked to countless people about Spygate and no one felt that it gave Belicheat* any big advantage. A good question for Belicheat* would then be "I talked to many, many people about Spygate and they all felt it gave you no big advantage. If that is the case why did you for 8 years illegally tape opponents if it gave you no important advantage. Or is everyone missing something, because after all you are a really great coach and NE* is the model franchise* for everyone." I don't think Tim should ask that question because it is an awkward question to ask, but I would like to see someone ask it.

When Schobel was healthy the DL was not the worst unit on the team. If he comes back to some reasonable facsimile of his past effectiveness and with Maybin now also in the mix and McCargo possibly finally starting to make some impact we could be better than the start of last year and will be better than last year after Schobel's injury. But anyway, the Bills did address the DL by the fact they used their very first pick on a DE. They also needed to address the OL big time. FA signings don't usually pan out in a major way for the Bills and trades are only rarely possible.

Probably true, they* aren't going to collapse. However it would not surprise me if Belicheat* has won his last SB* with the Patsies*.

I hope this draft turns out to be strong. We certainly need some impact players. What I like about this group already is that they seem to want to work hard, they are aggressive, and they are smart. We need to start to impose our will on the other teams, especially the better teams. Right now we often beat teams that don't end up making the playoffs and routinely lose to playoff teams. To change that we have to bring a new era of toughness to this team that shows we are going to go toe to toe with the elite teams. For a while at least we won't get calls in our favor and we may have coaching blunders so the players have to find a way to overcome that and refuse to lose. I hope to see Maybin get the key sack and Byrd make the key interception, already this year, and the OL to start to gel as a tough and effective group this year. If this draft group doesn't have some good impact already in 2009 it could well spell the end of DJ and this era of the Bills.

Thanks for this amusing take on the situation. The NFL finds no "proof" on anything except the single Jets accusation. If I was ever accused of a crime I would want the NFL to be the DA and police dept. investigating my case. Then a single former employee after that coughs up illegal tapes going back to 2000!!!!!!!! So much for the efficacy of the NFL's ability to investigate. Also, if the single game proof led to a forfeit of a #1 choice and fines how come 8 more years of violations led to nothing further!!!! I sill think the Senator Arlen Specter report is a lot more valuable than anything the NFL has ever released. Oh but I guess that doesn't count since Specter is not a Patsie* fan, doesn't get paid by the NFL, or make his income by covering the NFL. I still don't get Patsie* fans claiming Belcheat* was an idiot to have cheated since he* didn't need to cheat to win. Don't you think Belicheat* himself*is the best judge of what he needed to do to win? Give credit where credit is due. He* knew what he was doing when he cheated in so many different ways.

For those who doubt the beneficial officiating NE* and Belicheat* get please don't miss the opening Monday night 2009 game. You won't have any doubts after that. That is only one benefit of Belciheat'*s cheating. When you win you gain esteem and the officials give you the calls, especially if the coach* is considered a genius*. Other benefits include getting players like Randy Moss on the cheap. When you win players want to play for you. Cheating has been a wonderful escalation of benefits for Belicheat*, Kraft* (that is why he signed Belicheat* to a long term extension during the scandal!), Brady*, the whole team*, and all NE* fans*. The fans* only have to deal with a little bit of annoyance from some disgruntled fans of other teams. As I've said before in NE where I live it is not considered polite to even talk about Belicheat's* cheating publicly. A few posters have suggested Tim Graham write an article for ESPN about the aftermath of Spygate. THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. HE WOULD NOT EVEN REFERENCE IT EXCEPT TO DISMISS IT. But to Patsie* fans out there I will repeat my point. Do you respect Belicheat*'s football intelligence or don't you? If he* said we are going to cheat* (videotaping, miking, turning off mics in opponent's helmets, illegal playing and practicing of players, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.) to help us win THEN GIVE HIM CREDIT, HE, BELICHEAT*, the master cheater*, thought cheating would help him win. Are you going to argue with him* or give him* credit that he* knew what he was doing. He is the genius* not you or I and he knows what is necessary for HIM* to win.

You are probably right about time diminishing the cheating. However, I also think that a number of fans can never look at the NFL the same way again. I know that is true in my case. I can take a decade or two with no playoffs easier than realizing the most successful team in my division blatantly cheated in a way that clearly helped them gain some wins. And with winning comes many other perks such as getting better free agents, getting better calls from the refs, getting big time suck up treatment from the national media, etc. So the whole thing escalates. The fact that the NFL knows this and still felt the need to cover it all up has made me lose any silly idealistic notion of the integrity of the game. I don't know what Goodell could have done instead of covering it up like he did but I will never look at the NFL the same way again. I guess one thing Goodell could have at least done is told Belicheat* not to act like a smart aleck after getting his wrist slapped by Goodell. Belicheat* made Goodell look like an even bigger idiot by refusing to even acknowledge that he* had committed a violation but instead snidely said that he had misunderstood the rules. Well maybe Goodell told him to do that to further minimize things.

Why did Belicheat* cheat for at least 8 years if cheating didn't help Belicheat* win? Most are agreed he is a brilliant coach and talent evaluator so he already has a clear edge over most coaches and organizations. And to put it mildly the officials are not unkind to the NE* franchise in the way penalties are called on the opposition. So why cheat unless Belicheat is simply a pathological cheater* who cheats because it is his nature. That may be somewhat true but I think Belicheat* is able to rank in terms of importance what it takes to win and clearly the measures they used, illegal videotaping and miking, shutting off opponents headsets on offense at crucial moments of the game, etc. Belicheat* felt were factors in helping him win. The point is you either respect Belicheat* or you don't. I respect him* and therefore feel that if he* cheated then clearly there was a noticeable advantage in cheating or he* wouldn't have taken the risk to do it. If the putative best coach* in the game cheats then cheating must be advantageous to the best coach* of the game. Who are we to say it wasn't a big deal? Are you saying Belicheat* was an idiot to cheat? I wouldn't have the nerve to do that because his knowledge of football is light years ahead of mine and if he* says we are going to cheat to help us win then give him credit that cheating helped him* win.

It would be a big relief to me if I could convince myself that Belcheat's cheating was no big deal. But the way it was covered up by Goodell and the way the whole NFL community (league, major media, and former coaches) have insisted that it was no big deal makes it more clear that the cheating was significant. What bothers me most is the NFL community seem like they are Belicheat*'s defense attorneys when they comment about the situation. They try to find ways to minimize the seriousness of the charges instead of just speaking candidly to the charges. 1.) Belicheat* did illegal videotaping for years and even in one case (Detroit game) resumed videotaping after the officials told them they had to stop when Detroit complained. Belicheat* is certainly no idiot so it must have meant a lot to HIM* to be able to cheat. Does Belicheat* know what is important to him* or do we know better what is important to him* in winning. 2.) Common sense from following football for decades would convince anyone that even knowing say 70% of the plays what defense a team would run would be a huge advantage for the offense. It is ridiculous to argue that that wouldn't be a big advantage for NE*.

I feel sorry for all of us Bills fans who have had a decade of futility. Losman was one of the reasons we had that futility. I think actually he got a lot more chances than most QB's ever get mainly because we had no real alternative until Trent came along in the 3rd round. Did Losman do all he could for the Bills? No. He didn't take his role seriously when he was made a backup and wasn't mentally prepared for games. Other teams all know that and he messed himself up, maybe for good in the NFL, with that attitude. And don't forget Losman was kept on in 2008 because the Bills felt they needed a quality backup and would not trade him, even if he would only be here for a year. That really backfired on the Bills because JP was no quality backup. Being polite in public or buying drinks for people in bars isn't important. Being ready to play for your team on Sunday, even as a backup IS IMPORTANT. He failed at that.

This story by Tim Graham would have been great to quote for an earlier thread dealing with Belicheat* cheating* and why the media doesn't do all it can to investigate the cheating. Some people think the media would do anything to find dirt to expose. But in the final analysis the media who cover football would rather try to somehow bask in the glory of the winning teams and get inside access to the big name coaches and owners than probe further about the cheating* that in this case was at least part of the reason NE* became a winning team*. To write a story about why NE* should be America's team and not to at least footnote the cheating and the penalty that resulted from it is ridiculous. I mean the whole decade was referenced as to why NE* should be America's team and the cheating scandal only happened in 2007, less than 2 years ago!!!! No mention of it at all!!!!!

The fact that posters feel obligated to say that we should hit Brady* clean* shows how intimidated we are by Brady*, NE* and NFL officials*. Do you think the week before Wilfork* took out Losman's knee Belicheat* was talking to his team about hitting clean? Do you think Belicheat* has ever talked to his team* about hitting clean? We need to establish a new toughness with the coaches, players, and fans of this franchise and the talk should not be about making sure hits are clean. Do you think Bruce Smith worried about hitting Boomer Esiason "clean" when he basically ended his career. Boomer to this day wonders what Bruce Smith had against him. Brady* and NE* and Belicheat* and Wilfork* shouldn't have to wonder what the Bills have against them. Losman's knee, videotaping, and the whole litany of NE* offenses should explain that to anyone.

I don't think we have a chance of getting a hard hit on Brady* without drawing a personal foul and a fine. That is the way officiating* works versus NE* at least for the Bills. If only we had Wilfork*, but he plays for the Patsies*. Wilfork* is the only person in the world who says the normal way to fall is to stick your elbows out (to clip Losman's knee). DJ will probably tell his troops to go easy on Brady* since its hard to win in the NFL anyway and no use making Belicheat* mad since DJ may want to keep his job options open after this season. The logical thing would be not to worry about penalties or long gains but throw the kitchen sink at Brady*. But don't expect to see the Bills take that approach. Expect them to try to keep the game close by allowing Brady* all the time he needs to throw but keep a lot of men deep so that he has to beat us 8-12 yards at a time. I'm more hopeful with Rex Ryan and the Jets against Brady* if Ryan takes after his dad.

Its the perfect choice. Face it, outside of Buffalo and die-hard NFL fans most people don't know much about RW or don't know anything about him. For fans to see Chris Berman talk about RW suddenly makes RW seem important and contemporary. To see another old geezer up there like Felser talk about RW doesn't help RW look relevant at all. And from a Bills diehard fan point of view Berman is one of the few nationwide commentators who gets what it means to be a Bills fan, all the passion and pathos of it.

Although we have never won the SB, Wilson is in many ways a classy guy. Compare his HOF induction to Belicheat* or Brady* some day when all anyone will be thinking is that they cheated to win.