Leonidas

Before you get all high and mighty on me, don't forget that the government performs and condones much, much worse on a daily basis. Besides, in your fit of misplaced rage, I think you missed my point altogether. "Vick initially told authorities 'while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs,' but 'helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side,' according to the report" meaning the initial report - including the initial articles on ESPN and other networks - suggested that Vick, while funding the dogfighting, didn't have a hand in the actual putting down of the dogs. In other words Bill Shakespeare, if you just read the older articles you could easily surmise that he didn't physically kill the dogs. But if it makes you feel better to think I'm this Vick apologist who is falling all over myself to get Vick highlights back on the air, then knock yourself out. I just think the man has paid his debt to society and as some point, you have to let it go.

Thanks, yeah, that wasn't what I was saying at all. Thanks for the input, though. That could explain some, but not all. If you know you have a stacked roster and don't want to draft anyone then trade away your picks for future ones instead of wasting them on guys you will inevitably cut. I don't buy it.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't like being held hostage by any player, much less a lineman who is only as good as the line he plays on. If he's amazing but the rest of the line sucks, they'll just attack somewhere else. And yes, we know he CAN play well, but I'm not sold on him being a Pace/Ogden level tackle just yet. Those guys were natural tackles selected high for a reason. Peters played well at RT for a year and a half and then had a solid year at LT. But then he had a god-awful year at LT after ditching his teammates for the couch and his daytime soaps. So as capable as he is of playing well, he's obviously equally capable of playing terribly. You never had that fear with Pace, Ogden, Walter Jones, etc. I'm not anywhere willing to give him anywhere near $10M/year.

I'm sure he is. But, no offense, I don't want you playing LT for us this year either. I'm not opposed to Chambers playing LT this year if he wins it in camp. But that deal sounds awful unless other picks are thrown in. Our #11 and Peters for Philly's two first rounders, a second, and a fourth sound fine to me though. We could take Pettigrew at #21, Beatty/Oher at #28, Mack/Unger at #43, Johnson/Ayers with Philly's 2nd round pick, Sidbury in round 3 (since his stock seems to be skyrocketing), and still have a barrage of second-day picks for depth at S, LB, OL, DL.

That's an excellent question. I think the answer is that one lineman cannot make an entire offensive line better. If you can't get around him, just attack a different part of the line. The Patriots manage to do it with a bunch of solid linemen; no stars, but no bums either. That's why this whole Jason Peters thing is such a joke to me. I'd rather go at it with five Langston Walkers (or five Matt Lights, if you will) than a Jason Peters and four Mike Williamses. Well if another team is willing to do it so should we!! "You simply pay him." I'm so sick of you people who scream things like this and then wonder why we end up in salary cap hell. That's a pretty solid post. I can't imagine we pick up a DB anywhere earlier than the fourth round (even then, it's a stretch), but if we're looking for value by that point and as stud (as you say) falls to us I wouldn't rule it out. Even if McGee leaves, we've still got McKelvin, Youboty, Corner, and Florence, so, like WR, it's not a position of need at all (the FO did a good job drafting DB's last year). FS might be, depending on where Whitner is used best.

We're trading Peters AND our 11th pick for #21 and #28? Not unless they are throwing in a second and fifth rounder too, otherwise I'm not interested.

True, but he's not looking for RT money, he's looking for LT money. He's the one making the point that LT's get paid substantially more than RT's. I don't care if he was good at RT, C, or kicker, if he's clamoring about being paid because he's good at that specific position then show your dominance - yes, dominance - at that position for more than one year, and certainly do it in consecutive years.

Actually, the Bills have had very solid drafts of late. 2006 was solid with the exception of McCargo (we got Whitner, Youboty, K. Williams, Ellison, and Brad Butler), 2007 was very solid (Lynch, Poz, Edwards, and Schouman late), and 2008 - while still to be determined - seems good so far, although I think Bowen will bust and Fine might be the next Tim Euhus.

Certainly not OT Winston Justice. Not after Osi kicked the crap out of him on national television in '07.

He only had one good year before that. It's not like he was a top draft pick who had four solid years and had one off year. This guy was a lazy TE at Arkansas who wasn't drafted, came in to camp and was groomed to play OT, had one solid season and now expects to be paid MORE than Jake Long. He is hardly replaceable.

He gave up 2 sacks last year in 14 starts. Neither of you know what you're talking about. Peters at $15M? Puff puff pass, please...

Thanks for saving me the trouble. I'm getting fed up with idiots that just repeat "just pay him" like automatons. I'm not. And you wouldn't have been last year before the Jake Long deal. Now a year later, Peters seems to have gotten worse, and everyone is willing to pay him more? No thanks. Here's $6½M/year. Don't like it? Then sit out for the next two seasons. You're the one who signed the five-year deal. Jesus, here we go. Spikes has done nothing since he left. He's become this aging, journeyman OLB. Crowell didn't want to come back to Buffalo. Clements - are you serious? Was he worth 8 years/$80M?? No way in hell. Winfield was a liability in coverage at 5'8" (although great against the run). Sam Adams is out of the NFL now. Ron Edwards - is he alive? Probably not. Jabari Greer, as much as I love him, is this year's Jason David (I really home I'm wrong on that one). The only one's we've been wrong on are London Fletcher (and only by a year or two), and Pat Williams (who I never liked letting go). If Peters played this game of chicken with Belichick he'd be gone, and no one would question the move. Excellent point. That's Peters' fault! It's his responsibility to get to camp and, barring that, show up for the season in playing shape! It's his choice to sit on the couch and eat doritos while his teammates worked out and prepped for the season. He shouldn't be rewarded for that. Yeah, right. When you get offered a GM position, do us all a favor and turn it down. That's what I've been saying all along... I don't know, why did the Jets trade a first round pick for TE Doug Jolley? Why did the Vikings trade 800 draft picks for Herschel Walker? Why did Mike Ditka trade an entire draft for Ricky Williams? Ever think that different teams value players differently??? You can't just cut Kelsay and give Peters the money. Most of Kelsay's cap hit is from a pro-rated signing bonus. Then you also have to replace Kelsay, and pay that person. Change your avatar. 100% correct. It needs to happen before the draft so that we know where we stand during the draft and can address that position, whether it's for a starter or for depth.

Mayo and Meriweather were first rounders. It's easy to hit with a first rounder (unless you're Tom Donahoe, of course). What made Belichick successful were his hits in the later rounds. My point was in '06 and '07 Belichick missed and missed big. If I'm not mistaken, Gostkowski is the only player selected after round 1 that is still on the roster from those drafts, and it's far too early to judge the 2008 draft. I just find it amusing that this loser Pats fan would come on to a Buffalo Bills message board feeling the need to more or less make my point for me...and then go on about his team being the best team EVAH!! As if I don't get enough of that here in Boston...

Well, no argument there. I just don't see Peters as a resounding answer to the question that some people do, not after last year. I really think Beatty from UConn would be a solid pick there at RT. Andre Smith terrifies me as a huge potential bust. Langston Walker proved he can play LT. People are making this position out to be impossible - it's not. It's important, but it's not impossible. Walker got a 5/$25M deal for a reason; the guy can play. You're citing the Cleveland game??? Cleveland was tied for 30th in sacks last year!! That doesn't make any sense at all. That's not even apples and oranges, that's apples and t-bone steaks. All WR's drop passes. The more you get thrown the more you drop. There's a reason elite WR's always lead the league in drops. Elite tackles NEVER lead the league in sacks. They have the opportunity to give up a sack every play; the same cannot be said for WR's. There's a reason you'll never see CJ Hawthorne lead the league in drops. Hmm...you could sign three Matt Lights. Right now I'd take one over Peters.

Yeah, and if you noticed it said: "Vick initially told authorities 'while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs,' but 'helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side,' according to the report." "Funded the entire operation" is what I thought he did. That was then retracted. You'll have to forgive me if I haven't kept myself up to date on Vick's transgressions. But thanks for the attitude. Michael Vick is one of the most talented human beings on the planet. Whether or not he's a good football player or a good person is a completely different argument altogether. There is some truth to that statement. There's truth to that statement too. I don't like hunting or dogfighting. Hunting has more of a purpose when done out of need, when all the parts of the animal are used; hunting for sport is cruel in my opinion. I'm not sure why anybody thinks he can play RB. He'd never last a game, much less a season. You're right in that he wouldn't listen to his coaches - whether it was because he couldn't comprehend it or because he just didn't want to (he survived high school and college football on talent alone), I'm not sure.

Bryant McKinnie NEVER gave up a sack at any level of football prior to the draft. That, and the fact that he played LEFT tackle (whereas M. Williams played right tackle) automatically made McKinnie the better prospect. I never understood the Mike Williams pick. What, no response??? Great list, except wasn't Mirer a #3? Not 100% sure. Great list, though. Notice Cadillac Williams was a bust AFTER ripping us a new !@#$ on opening day, though.

Obviously. But would you rather have Pace at $4M or Peters at $12M? There's this thing called a "salary cap" you should probably consider. I think that's a great idea. Do you know this from watching film on him, or just because that's what you heard? Or is it because the Rams cut him? I'll tell you this much: Pace - 'a step' = a very solid LT

I hope you have the same disdain for Leonard Little and Dany Heatley. They killed people, you know. So much outrage for Vick, so little for so many others...

I don't know about that. Andre - not Jason - Smith has been plummeting down draft boards. I think he will be available AND I think we should/will pass on him.

I didn't hear any of that. I heard he authorized the dogs be put down. There's a big difference between giving the okay over a cell phone to put a dog down and physically hanging or electrocuting the dog. The the latter is true then I am with you. But until I hear further, I am going to stick with what I've heard. Regardless, what Vick did is wrong. But human beings make mistakes, everyone (with limited exception) deserves a chance at redemption.

So...you're making my point for me? You had a good 2005 draft, but had poor ones in '06, '07, and the jury is still out on '08 (since it largely depends on the success of guys like Wilhite, Wheatley, and Slater). Wait, what was your point again? I'm pretty sure my post said "haven't had a good draft in like four years," and 2005 was four years ago. Leave it to a Patriots fan to have an inferiority complex and showcase it on a Buffalo Bills message board...

Assuming you mean Peters', I probably wouldn't have started that high, although I understand the strategy. As long as he doesn't really expect that much. If he does (or anything near it), good riddance... Personally, I think that's overpaying him. Ignore the Jake Long contract. Look at every other LT out there. Is Peters better than all of them? Certainly not. Give him something in the range of those ($6M/year with $15M guaranteed) and I'll be happy. I think Owens was the perfect bridge to Hardy who is supposed to be good. People seem to be giving up on him, but he's 6'6" 220 lbs., runs a 4.49 and has great hands. My hope is that he can learn something this year and be ready to contribute significantly in 2010. From what I've seen Steve Johnson could be the real deal as well. But neither one was ready for the #2 role this season.

Peters' position or the Bills?

A lot of reporters, journalists, and analysts are lazy. Jason Peters was discovered by some reporter and rather than do their own work other journalists just ride their coattails. It usually takes a few years until the consensus catches up with reality. This is more frequent with linemen too since fewer people pay attention to them (especially offensive linemen) and they have no real stats to speak of. Ruben Brown was making pro bowls long after he was a legitimate pro bowl G. I agree on Andre Smith, though. That why I suggested getting another 1st rounder for Peters (which shouldn't be terribly difficult) and using it on a guy like Beatty from Connecticut and letting him start at RT while giving Walker - who shined at LT against Seattle - a chance to play LT. But Andre Smith just screams 'bust' to me, not to mention the fact that we have other needs at #11.