Mr. WEO

If refs are throwing ('calling unfair") games, they need to be fired, not fined. This should go without saying. Otherwise, they calling games fairly to the best of their collective ability as a group on the field--but errors will always exist. The NFL claims 98.9% accuracy of all calls. I haven't found a site that shows a different number. maybe this will help you: https://fansided.com/2021/11/22/nfl-officiating-crisis-fix-2021/ "When leaving the stadium, officials get a thumb drive with the recorded game to review. They spend hours watching every play and consulting with their crew and supervisors about their performance and how to improve." "Officials who receive playoff assignments earn more. Officials are graded on every play based on an evaluation system started in the 1990s by officiating pioneer Art McNally, who recently became a Hall of Fame candidate. Officials fall into three tiers based on the grades, with the highest tier selected for the playoffs. Austro says some officials can become so obsessed with the grading system that to avoid making an incorrect call they huddle and wait for a call from the instant replay booth. Daopolous believes replay can be a helpful tool, but says the increased dependence on it hurts the game-watching experience for fans left watching an official playing with their earpiece. “There’s too much emphasis on New York,” Daopoulos says. “Officials make mistakes. Replay officials make mistakes—they make mistakes in New York.” So...to reiterate: there is accountability and poor performance is penalized with less money earned.

good question. lots of tickets on stubhub right now--no indication they can't be bought and transferred right now

I didn't say that. Getting rid of refs and having everything reviewed by video in a central office on every play will eliminate nearly all "errors". Just pointing out why your examples don't apply here. Refs aren't committing crimes. They are making judgement calls based on what they see and what they know. You keep insisting that the referees are intentionally calling an "unfair" game. That means they are favoring one team over another throughout the game. Unless ALL the refs in a game are in on some criminal enterprise to profit from one team beating another, your argument makes no sense. And it follows that if they are not intentionally throwing the game one way or the other, than charging them money for errors won't have an impact on their error rate. And I don't think you realize that all refs are already reviewed and graded? And no pro sports leagues agree with the idea that paying refs less money (through fines/penalties will make them better refs---for all of the obvious reasons that I have listed a few times now.

A rookie coming out of Alabama (not the best training ground for future NFL QBs) with only 16 college starts and who finished 13th in yards (just behind MAtt Ryan, ahead of Big Ben, Tannehill, Trevor Lawrence, Wentz) and 8th in completion % (ahead of Brady, Tannehill, Stafford, Mahomes, Herbert....), 14th in TD (more than Tannehill, Ryan, Garoppolo, Lawrence), 15th in rating (better than Josh, Ryan, Tannehill, Big Ben). By all metrics, he had a better season than Tannehill, QB of the top team in the AFC. In an offensive "rebuild", he helped lead a moribund 7-9 team that missed the playoffs for the first time in 12 years to a playoff appearance. Given all of this, what, exactly, were your expectations of his performance at the beginning of the season?

well, historically, that nobody has been Knox.......

Best I've ever seen.

The coverage of the Cowboys is uniformly mocking of their collapse....

This already happens every week for every ref. Want to get rid of ref errors? Get rid of refs. Your idea makes no sense. Penalties do not remove human error. Plain and simple. Speeding is an awful example for behavioral conditioning. Every driver violates the speed limit every time he/she drives, yet they all know that there is as close to zero chance they will get caught on any given trip that it has no effect on their behavior. And they are knowingly breaking th law, not honestly calling plays in a pro game. Another bad example is the restaurant employee. If they are shorting the till, knowingly or not, that is money the owner is due. This also has no relevance in the discussion of experienced refs trying to call a fair game.

I don’t know what his upside. But you would have to say he outperformed your expectations of him. In such a case it doesn’t make sense to conclude such a player cannot possibly get better.

Tied for 3rd highest number of turnovers by a QB this year.

so thirsty...

that would be Mike Jasper, Christian Wade and a dome...

True Josh didn't have much other than "Shady". And true, there was some promise shown. But you're saying that Jones, a guy no one expected much from who turned out to be a top 15 QB as a rookie has zero potential to get better ("upside")? My point in all of this is I don't know how that conclusion can come so soon. Posters here said the same thing about Brady for years on end. And certainly many on and off this board said the same about Josh after 1 year (some still do!).

There's the John from Riverside white flag retreat! My points weren't complicated. If you can't make a cogent argument then by all means stop mischaracterizing mine. lol "you think he's Tom Brady". yeah, that's what I said!

The best/most experienced refs are going to miss calls or make bad calls. They are made without bad intent so they really can't be simply corrected by money. Again, unless you think they are intentionally making the wrong calls, I don't know how docking their pay/fining (these are all the same thing)for a "bad game" is going to prevent any ref or crew from having a future bad game. Do you think they are thinking "I have to be a much better ref today than last week or they will pay me less for this game"? Of course not. Can you name any other major sports league where they fine refs/umps or withhold full contractually owed pay/salary for bad calls? Fines don't prevent players for committing stupid/finable penalties and they never will. It doesn't work.

High balls? Lot/high rate of interceptions? Who's rookie year are you talking about now? I was comparing Josh's and Jones's rookie seasons based on expectations and actual results. The Bills were a 9-7 playoff drought ending team before McD blew it all up and Allen came on board. Allen wasn't drafted as some down the road prospect. His results were not initially encouraging and any claim that was a consensus even on this board that he would become what he has in 2 more years is a laughable fabrication. Revisionist history. No one expected NE to make it to the playoffs with some kid with less than two seasons of college QB'ing (at Bama, no less) or was going to be the best QB of his draft his rookie year. Certainly you did not. Then you objected to my comparison to Brady's first starting season. Specifically, you said: "Brady was pin point accurate coming out the gate....Mac Jones is afraid to throw the ball down the field and when he does he throws high balls and a lot of almost interceptions (to go along with the interceptions)" And all of those claims are easily proven false, as I noted. And you claim now that, 21 years ago, you knew there was "something special about Brady", then next you will tell us that you bought Netflix when it was 71 cents a share. Not credible.

How it doesn’t work announcements are made by downstate lawmakers alerting the public of their opposition. Everyone knows that public money will be spent. The point is how much. This is where the legislators tell the governor (not you and me) how much they would approve. Pretty simple. And there’s no reason for the Bills to move at all. Perils can afford to close any gap in funding with cash on hand. If he moves the team it’s because he wants to.

He hardly gets any as it is--far fewer than Josh.

scroll up

No one is arguing that. The topic being discussed is if, after one 10 win season/playoff season, should BB move on from his rookie QB.

Why stop there? Why not fine players for egregiously bad plays (looking at you, Cowboys). Wouldn't that also eliminate all egregiously bad plays? Of course it wouldn't. Just like fining refs won't alter the fact that bad calls are going to be made. Unless you think they are trying purposely to call the wrong penalty on a bang bang play every time, then your argument makes little sense. This is how these guys get penalized--they don't get the premium postseason games and the money that comes with them. Done and done. Look, calls are made, refs discuss things amongst themselves, it is "reviewed in New York", then the call stands or is reversed. Anything that's not reviewable...too bad. The other team certainly isn't crying.

How do you know he's close to his ceiling after a season? Did you think, on week 1 that they would be challenging the Bills for the Division title right up to the end of the season and would face the Bills in the playoffs? Do you also think BB should dump him and move on (the topic I was responding to)? BB won 3 early in Brady's career. "right out of the gate", Brady: 2843 yards, 64% 12 ints (2.9%). Jones 3801 68% 13 ints (2.5%)

How do you know they aren't against it? Maybe they have already told her they aren't supporting massive share of the build, hence it's not in the budget yet. Downstate state politicians really don't care about Buffalo's identity--they would likely say they can keep the Bills if the owner kick in for nearly all of the cost. They recall just a few years ago the last billion the state wasted on Buffalo. Why would they be eager to funnel more wasted money to Buffalo again? As you point out, she is running unopposed by her party so whether a stadium done won't likely matter as the vast majority of her votes will come from Westchester, all 5 boroughs and Long Island. I really don't know why posters here think local downstate politicians are concerned that a new stadium is built in Buffalo. There's no logic to it. They all would have a project in their district in mind that could use a billion dollars.

This guy's a bum, plain and simple. He torched any chance they had to win that game and the Cowboys are stuck going nowhere with him for years to come. Perfect!

now hold on....is this another lamar Jackson thread?