Mr. WEO

Allen's main knock coming into the league and after his rookie season was his accuracy. You know this. He had better coaching and it improved. Vick didn't have that kind of instruction--not sure too many guys had that 20 years ago after they already were in the league. Maybe you didn't read the article. It clearly says Josh broke Vicks record for rushing "in the first 8 starts of his career". Josh had 490 yards rushing over those 8 games. 335 of those yards came in 3 games (in the other 5 he had 36, 39, 19, 19, 20). After those first 8 starts, he would run for a total of 141 over the rest of the season. In Atlanta Vick had seasons with 6.9, 6.4, 7.5 8.4 YPC. 3 seasons over 750 yards rushing. On the Jets, his carries declined but he still had seasons of 6.8, 7.8, 8.5 YPC. A career 7 YPC. Josh has had a season of 7.1 and 6.3 and a single season over 750 yards. We can assume that Josh's 100+ carry seasons won't continue by design. Reid never improved anyone's accuracy. How could he? Josh's major knock before the draft was his accuracy. You have forgotten this maybe? It was in all the papers. The topic of this thread is, essentially, that Josh's QB product significantly improved with a lot of coaching--Palmer being widely credited here for this. Is your argument that none of this is true? That Josh was fully formed upon entering the NFL? That coaching cannot (and didn't) affect his (or anyone's) performance.

Again, arm strength, not accuracy, was the topic I was first responding to. Are you saying Josh was a very accurate passer coming out college (before Palmer)?

so what? What did Reid do to improve Vick's accuracy? Who did he have him work with, after, you know, Vick got out of prison? As for who is the better runner, Vick had insane numbers running the ball--like no one else.

He never had a Jordan Palmer. Arm strength was the topic. Easily Vick had that same arm strength--with no coached throwing motion.

Exactly listened to both. I don';t doubt Palmer believes he's the best ever. It certainly doesn't hurt business to say so.

His arm strength is on par with JA. Go back and watch Vick with the flick of his wrist throw 50 yards. None of the rigorously practiced and Jordan Palmer-crafted windup----just a tiny movement of his hand. recency bias...

JA isn't an order of magnitude bigger than either Mahomes or Rodgers. He's actually leaner (lower BMI) than Mahomes. And Palmer didn't say exclusively physically talented. Rodgers's game doesn't lack anything that 2-3 more inches of height would bring. Height isn't a talent anyway. I don't see a huge gap between Josh and Mahomes at the position so far. JA has carried the ball over 200 more times than Mahomes. If Reid ran Mahomes like that they would have similar rushing numbers at 5.0 vs 5.5 per carry.

He's riding the bigger hype wave with Josh right now. It was just over a year ago he was saying Darnold "is going to be so good in this league".. Because he's the QB...

lol--if Burrow goes to the SB again and the Bills don't, look for Palmer to be shooting youtubes declaring Burrow as "the best I've ever seen!!!" he is extremely elusive. i've not seen anyone claim otherwise--until you did. But no, The Chiefs had RBs on their roster, so he wasn't asked to run the ball like JA had to. Doesn't mean he would not have been as successful.

are you serious?

Vick didn't have that arm strength?? lol stop.

This gets rehashed a lot. BB took a 3 win team to 6, 7, and 11 wins and a playoff appearance. At some point, Vinny Testaverde as your top QB runs out of steam... In 2 of Frazier's 3 full seasons in Minny, his teams had the worst D in the league re; giving up points.

Vick was a supreme athlete. His speed was uncommon and he had maybe the biggest arm I have ever seen. Rodgers has a big arm, very quick on his feet. Very smart. Makes any throw. 6'2" 225. That's big enough. Not every OC feels his QB should be the #2 rusher on the team you know (RIP Daboll). Also, as other have pointed out, Mahomes has the big arm, makes all the throws and has serious speed. 6'3" 227 (10 lb lighter than JA). In 4 years as a starter, he has a lot more passing yards, 50% more TDs and fewer INTs. It has taken a trainer touting (yet again) his most (only?) successful client as "the most talented ever" for many here to suddenly agree with this idea.

Vick for 1. Elway

why don't you just answer my question? I've asked it twice.

Frazier has some delusions and self-assessment deficits....

"seriously"...?

Palmer handing out his business card again... By "most ever", Palmer must mean "that I have personally trained".

doesn't matter. it's either "he's sucks" or "not worth the money". these threads appear every off-season, as you well know.

He had quality starts on another team to which he was traded 2 years into his rookie contract....Am I doing this right? link? Yeah, it's me who every seasons starts multiple threads about "is Edmunds worth keeping". nice try!

So what? Read the allegation I quoted. It didn't require force or coercion. Would you let him do that to your hard working mom? Or would you tell her to STFU and take the guys money for the session?

Nick is certainly touting Poyer a lot. Go figure.... He seems to want to inform a certain somebody/somebodies that Poyer is the best, yet not fully appreciated by......that/those somebody/somebodies. hmmm

He made unwanted contact with these women and his genitalia. And then this happened: "Watson then stood up and continued ***** more aggressively,” the suit alleges. “As he did so, Watson asked the Plaintiff, ‘Where do you want me to put it?’ Plaintiff by this point was in complete shock and could not speak. She froze. Watson quickly *****; some of his ***** got on Plaintiff’s chest and face.” Is that what you would call just "incidental contact"? If that was your daughter or your mom, would you say "what's the big deal? he didn't force anything?"

You forgot Zay Jones.

My thinking is that if the FO is tossing away it's draft picks before their rookie contract is up, they didn't feel they were picks good enough to keep. Articles quoting GMs seem to have a consensus that getting 3 starters out of the 7 allotted picks (before trades) is a "good draft". 2018 is a "good draft". Drafting other teams' starters to me doesn't make one a greater draft. If you have no use on the roster for rookie contract picks, then for your team, they were misses. Unless you trade them for a better player, that weren't of significant or lasting value. Taken to its extreme, if 6 of a teams picks end up starters on other teams before signing a second contract with the Bills is that a "great draft? What if they are all All Pros? If the 7th pick is Josh Allen than, yeah, maybe, lol. Otherwise of course not