thurst44

Actually, it's been 14...they sneaked into the playoffs last in 2002, and had one winning season since (in 2007).

How is John Miller now a problem. He actually had quite a solid (if not better-than-solid) year in his second year. PFF might not be always right, but they do engage in in-depth analysis. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-the-10-most-improved-second-year-players

That's my understanding too, and he will be gone soon. Christie destroyed any remains of the Republican brand here and Democrat Phil Murphy is pretty much a lock to win. He's running against Christie's lieutenant governor and all polls have it generally in about the 55-25 range.

Even though it's not a significantly worse team than what we had on the field last year, minus a coach, who if he hadn't been terrible with gameday calls (like getting a time-out or not doing a trick play when in field goal range in overtime), we would have been .500?

You're probably right (actually, i pretty much totally agree with you), yet... ...this. I'm all for bringing him in and letting him compete the last couple weeks. He was always a lot of fun to have in town (save the untimely drops).

I dunno, maybe it's different people, but my Giants' buddies actually say something to the effect "that Tyrod Taylor's pretty good" when I mention the Bills. I've actually not talked to any fans of other teams who actively disrespect Tyrod.

Exactly. For some perspective, worriers should check out our own 2015 pre-season stats and the three games EJ Manuel had. 20-for-30, 4 tds, 0 ints, 146 qb rating. It's pre-season. Maybe Mahomes will work out and we will regret it. Maybe he'll be great and so will Tre' White and whoever we get with their first pick next year, and one way or another our QB situation is still solved (Tyrod, Peterman, the 2018 pick, or otherwise). However, we should never judge anything based on the first two pre-season games; this is especially true when it's a rookie QB going against second stringers or worse.

We may be overhyping the bad-ness of the offense based on pre-season games -- and only the passing side of it. Even in the meh-to-brutal games, the run game was biting off chunks of yardage. They may very well be bad. Or they might grind out a lot of long drives (as they are designed to do) and keep the defense rested. And, yes, they had more 3-and-outs than they should have last year, but they also were top ten in points scored.

Some writer says some form of this every year. I honestly don't get the logic. Does he think Rex Ryan was a genius?

Or, as it seems, it all goes back to that one Evan Silva tweet and wishful thinking from other fanbases stemming from a misunderstanding of the Watkins/Darby trades (a couple articles i read listed them as solely trades for picks), and an essential disrespect for the Bills. If they could somehow get a first, or a second and a worthwhile player, I'd still hate it, but I'd stomach it. It's putting a lot of stock in one draft class, though. Also, I don't think this is what Beane or McDermott is trying to do. The infamous trades hint at an attempt to compete (whether you think this is futile is up to you) while building for the future.

This is such a key point. There's also the Bears and Rams, and I could see the Bengals falling apart (but that's just a hunch). This is one of the worst possible years to try to tank (imo it's a dumb game plan at any time). We still have a decent amount of talent, and there have even been some good signs even in what seems like a dreadful start to pre-season (defense, run game), so let's hope we do well (and if the Rams are truly as bad as they could be, we'll have three picks in the first 33, and can use them to bolster a promising team.

I'm going to presume it's not a big injury to Streater and go: Matthews Z. Jones Streater C. "P." Brown Tate Shorts (although i could see them going with five and keeping extra players from rb/fb/te pool)

Then let's also hold off on any predictions about our offense. Fair?

Yeah, pass protection was a total mess. Hopefully, Glenn will be back and ready, Dawkins will pick up speed fast and displace Mills, and this Ducasse experiment ends fast (and for depth at the tackles, hopefully Henderson is better when back at the more natural right tackle position -- but have to admit he has had two absolutely brutal pre-season games).

You really feel like Shady is a dime-a-dozen?!?! Also, I'll never get this "it's a passing league, so we need to pass" logic. That it's a passing league means you need to have a good pass rush and disruptive front 4 or 5 (check) and a solid secondary (less so, but we'll see). However, an argument can be made that having a ground game is the smart move in the current NFL. Modern defenses are built towards stopping the passing game in such a league, plus it keeps their D on the field and yours off it. You could further argue we only won 7 games because we had a porous, sloppy defense and a coach, who while (hopefully) well-meaning, forgot how to use things as basic as times out and challenges (we may have lost two games b/c he didn't call a time out fast enough against a yippy kicker, and he didn't "realize" you could challenge a call that would have changed the dynamic of another game). New Orleans only won 7 games the last three years with Brees throwing for around 5000 yards and 30-plus touchdowns. Should they trade him? Finally, in all my years as mostly a lurker, yours is one of my favorite screennames ever, fwiw

I don't get that mentality at all. This team still has McCoy, Glenn, Incognito, Wood (who metrics and peers say is much better than most here think), Miller (ok, if they play Ducasse, I'll lose a bit of faith), Matthews, Dareus, K. Williams, Hughes, Lorax, Shaq, Hyde. All our rookies are looking solid in camp and pre-season (hard to tell with Dawkins). Plus, we have a new coach. Sorry to keep going off on this, it's just the relentless negativity is exhausting. I get that it's been 17 years, yet I still manage to get excited for the season. I just don't see how this is a particularly bad team. To me, it feels like a hard-to-gauge team who could get mewed up by the schedule, or catch lightning in a bottle like many teams before them. How many people predicted the Dolphins to win 1-3 games last season? There's a few teams like that every season (and i don't even see this as a particularly bad team, just somewhere in the middle).

None for 3 years. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a Luck. But they are few and far between, and there's no guarantee that Darnauld will be Luck, and just getting a QB does not promise that, and a high pick could turn out to be Griffin or Bortles. Rodgers was a late 1st round pick and the Packers built up the rest of their team, so even if he's hurt they still have a shot. This is the rare year I'm not against picking a QB in the first round (especially if we keep both picks), and I like Tyrod. However, waiting for the mythical "franchise QB" might as well be waiting for Godot. It's fools' gold. McCoy still looks dominant, and sometimes running backs last well past their supposed freshness date. Why don't we root for the best season this year with the knowledge that we already have six, and possibly seven, picks on the first two days of the draft next year. And root against the Chiefs and Rams .

Why? How are they appreciably worse than they were last year. Gilmore and Darby were inconsistent. Watkins barely played. Plus, the removal of the Ryan Bros might be a plus. I'm not saying they might not be awful whatever they do (it's quite possible), but to say there is "virtually no chance they'll be good or even decent this season" feels way hyperbolic. There's still our running game and the defense is looking really good so far and still has a ton of talent. It just feels like any of the last few seasons where there's a large segment of the board saying there's no way we'll do better than 5-11 and we wind up somewhere around .500.

No no no no no! Even if I believed in tanking, this is the absolute WORST year in which to do it. 4-12 could very well put you behind the Jets, Bears, Rams, 49ers, Browns, you never can tell just what the Jaguars are going to do, and probably some surprise team not even on our radar. Unless the Boldin move is b/c he heard something, we are not tanking, and this is hardly the awful team some are making it out to be, even based on the lousy, sloppy pre-season games (where we ran at will and the first-team defense looked stout). Yes, like when the Colts fell apart and drafted Luck and have been to how many Super Bowls with him?

It's disheartening, but I wouldn't call it part of nya clown show. This is something that happens all the time, and even happened to the Patriots twice in the last three years, as a poster mentioned in another thread.

Not necessarily. Holmes has seemed just awful in camp, and after Jones and Matthews, the receivers seem pretty interchangeable. Could easily see them going: Matthews, Jones, Streater (if healthy), Philly Brown, Tate, Shorts or Reilly. Plus, considering how this team is constructed, they might not keep all that many wide receivers, in favor of running backs, fullbacks, and tight ends. Also, I suspect we might be closer to the comp picks than we think. Nobody really knows what the formula is, and if memory serves, the experts (who will readily admit they aren't certain) listed Justin Hunter as the first guy who did not qualify and EJ pretty close. Both those players might already count, plus if EJ is a back-up and Hunter has a solid season, that would likely play into the formula. Now, if they don't cut Ducasse, that'd be frustrating (sorry Vlad). If he's starting (barring injury to Miller), I'd even start turning a bit negative on this team.

And you don't think our DL will demolish theirs, or do you only notice the bad? For all the off-season foibles of the offense, the defense has looked terrific so far, and they will be going against McCown, Petty, or Hackenberg who will be throwing to WRs who make ours look like Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate, and about the only thing the offense has going for them is Matt Forte. Also our line will hopefully have Glenn, Miller, and Dawkins going when the season starts. I get it, but we go through this every year. I don't see any particular reason this team will be any worse than last year's. Also, there is a lot more talent on this team than most here will give us credit. Most teams look bad in pre-season. Do I think a 4-12 season is possible? Sure. But we already are building for the future (possibly 7 picks on the first two days next year) and still have enough talent to have a surprise contending team. Remember how terrible the Dolphins were supposed to be last year? Let's not be so definitive that there's zero chance.

Colt Anderson, before the injury, was a well-respected gunner.

Pass protection is bad. The O-Line has been pretty consistently great in the run game. That said, it will be a disaster if the O-Line is playing like they did Thursday when the season starts. The wrongly maligned two fullback thing is actually very logical and addresses a specific need. Last year, the offense was effective (at or near top ten in many categories), but they were atrocious at converting 3rd & short (or 3rd & anything). Tolbert is one of the best in the league at 3rd & short runs, albeit he's heading into his 30s. Ducasse has been terrible, and it's baffling why they would even hint at replacing a young guard, who by almost all accounts was one of the most improved in the league last year, with a guy who has had little success in his career. As depth, I could almost rationalize the signing, but we had the best running game in the league last year by 15 ypg over the next team. Why "fix" what ain't broke?

Tolbert and Boldin, because they were brought in specifically to combat our troubles on 3rd down.