thurst44

Also, Biscuit and Talley on the list. Troy Vincent was a Bill for a few years.

I agree that some criticism is justified, but not the level of criticism he's getting from much of the league. Some (not you) are acting like he almost cost the team the game or like he wasn't mostly responsible for this win is absurd. He was inside the 20 on both drives on which he fumbled, and led them craftily down the field for touchdowns the other three drives of the first half. Yes, they should have been 31 or 35 to nothing at half, but they were still 21-3 and the 21 were due to Josh Allen. Is there room for improvement -- yes, and that should be scary for the rest of the league. Could he still implode -- of course. Has he improved from game-to-game and year-to-year -- imo, clearly. Those who focus on Allen's mistakes as if they define him, and are the lone definition of Josh Allen, look silly and petty to me.

While I'm not in that picture (although body-size-wise, I would have fit right in), I was at home on that draft night and screamed the loudest profanity you've ever heard when they said "Allen" after "Josh." However, he was our QB and I was now determined to give him a chance. He genuinely won me over very quickly, and there were a few tidbits I'd missed about him that helped me form a different picture than my initial view -- essentially, I started to realize he was more than just a shiny, strong arm, but he seemed clearly a born leader and a quick learner. Since then, he's been exciting to watch and his growth seems pretty obvious. It's not that there still aren't glaring holes in his game and he could still slide back, but his promise to be a top QB in the league is still on track.

My first live game ever was the 51-3 shellacking of the Raiders to get to the first Super Bowl, so my answer to the first question is pretty obvious. I was a freshman at UB and home in NYC (family from Buffalo) for the holidays. My uncle surprised me with tickets to the championship game, and me, my aunt, and my uncle -- all huge Bills fans, uncle and aunt since 1960 -- all went to Orchard Park to watch the game. As we walked in, Ralph Wilson was walking behind us. It was a balmy 33, but even so, by the end of the game, every inch of my body felt chilled. The next day, it was 11 degrees and windy, so thankfully that weather held off a day. I can see Jim Kelly drop the ball, pick it up, and hit James Lofton in the end zone to start the rout. A few years later brought my worst experience. The same uncle and aunt came up to watch the game and bought tickets. It was against Miami and one of the other SB years, and we were 4-0 going in. I had a brutal cold, a test monday, two papers due Tuesday, and there was a persistant rain. When Miami got off to an insurmountable lead, one obnoxious Fins fan kept taunting our whole section, yet surprisingly he remained upright the rest of the game. We lost 37-10 and was thrust back into dumb college reality of papers, etc. Once, after a night game against the Broncos, my friend's ne'er-do-well boyfriend's RV broke down in the middle of a one-lane section of Abbott Road. It was mortifying to stand outside as police directed a long line of cars around us. I don't even remember how we wound up getting home. However, the Bills won that game, so who cares -- everything was bliss. I've only been to one Buffalo game since I moved back to NYC, when we beat Houston in 2016. It was 62 degrees and it was my first chance to tailgate at a Bills game (RV got there late of course and my family are not drinkers) and for all the talk from some corners about needing a new stadium, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way -- maybe more bathrooms :). It's just such a college (and collegial) atmosphere. Buffalo is one for a few hours.

I don't know that this is true. I am in the 212 (well, tech 201, but for media purposes) and hearing a ton of respect on WFAN (and not just from Bills fan Maggie Gray -- she may even be the most negative). I've seen a lot of national press praise for the Bills. Most people seem to group them in the Titans/Steelers/(maybe) Colts area of teams that should be contenders, but are just below Baltimore/KC. Personally, talent-wise, I put them with KC/SF/TB as teams that have an abundance of talent and the chance to really turn it on. They could very well start 5-0 (Jets are terrible, I don't buy the Dolphins at all -- at least a year away, Rams could be a tire fire, Raiders are baffling and Gruden is pinballing between genius and breakdown, and can't help but feel the Titans run was a one-off and it's very possible Tannehill and Henry could regress). That said, it's a weird season and so many things could go wrong even in a normal season that while I love the Bills' depth, they could fall apart. Gugny may have it right. Who knows. I feel confident and excited about this team, but often good teams can fall apart and it can steamroll. Quick doubleback to the Dolphins: I love that people are overrating them, because it rarely fails that when the Dolphins are expected to do well they fall apart and when they look like a trainwreck they make a run at the playoffs.

If Beane & McDermott think it's a good idea, then I'm fine with it as they must have some insight. I'm intrigued, but it's likely just that I love a good redemption story, and he never seemed like a bad guy, merely less than fully motivated at times (at least off the field). I'd have some excitement if even Karlos Williams came back and there seems like something very dark might be going on there. Chances are it's a moot point. He probably just likes Buffalo more than we think he did. One of our criticisms was how he took to the night life.

Taron has been mostly solid as the nickel. I could see Siran Neal stepping up his game. If Josh Norman is healthy and reverts to anywhere near McDermott form (big ask, i know), this could be a very deep unit.

It may not be their duty, but it is their right. Look, I roll my eyes when Nick Bosa tweets, but if he were on the Bills, I'd root for him wholeheartedly.

I believe I will stay far away from this board if that happens.

Ha, yeah, good point. That's a factor too -- it's weird to recall that Zay was on the team as recently as last year -- but Cole did have a few hiccups early in the season where they just did not seem in sync.

Also, it's important to note that most of those stats were in the second half of the season when Allen started to have a rapport with him.

I really miss the extensive camp write-ups (was it GunnerBill or Astro or...) which would go through every element of every play of 11-on-11, 7-on-7, etc. Whoever did those -- while I'm sorry I forget who it was -- thanks and know they are missed.

Its funny how many of the people who are arguing about there being too much politics in football and how they want an oasis are bringing politics to this football conversation board. Anyway, between the Bills looking like SB contenders for the first time in two decades and the yearning for a distraction from everything that is 2020 and cabin fever, I'm about as into this season as I've ever been. I'll admit there's a bit of an odd detached feeling with the lack of pre-season and info -- and I don't get the last part as while it is a sport and I understand trying to get every advantage you can, it is ultimately there for entertainment and hiding an already action-light pre-season activity from the public seems silly, but I'm excited for Saturday to see who makes it, who gets to PS and if players I've liked but don't really deserve to make the team (Duke, Robert Foster) are still in the Bills family or get their shots elsewhere. And you know I'll be excited a week from Sunday and rooting as hard as ever. As for the lack of fans, it won't hurt the Bills -- they were 6-2 on the road, and we all saw how this team fed on the opposing teams' fans. We're "Renegades"!

Or some people love the country enough to try to make sure it lives up to its ideals instead of blindly following. Um, can we get back to talking about football?

So are you lobbying to bring back feudalism. I gotta say, that is not on my TBD hot takes bingo card.

I'm sorry, but I find it amusing that you've accused this of someone with the screen name "logic" who from what I've seen is presenting a reasonable argument (not that you are not).

I read articles. Your assertation that it doesn't spread outside is ridiculous and contradicts most of the science (which is admittedly still not completely known to begin with which makes your definitive stance all the more ludicrous. The virus spreads less outdoors than it does outside, but it still spreads, and it's more likely to spread when people are closer together and talking loudly. What does that last part sound like? There are multiple cases of outbreaks at large outdoor parties. OK, there's something we agree on.

More of them than at certain other protests and/or rallies where they were aggressively not wearing them and in people died. One person wears a mask, it reduces another person's transmission roughly 70% and their chances are down 30%; both and it's almost 100%. It's a group that tends to have more people who believe masks work and let's leave it at that, Mr. Big Hands. This thread is about to be closed down soon, isn't it?

That's not how that works. You can't prove a negative. But, in any case, a perfuctory google search shows many, many, many articles from independent sources have roughly the same line "most/everyone there are wearing masks" https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03FyXEYFg4TXBW12o-WP_22Ja94cg%3A1597887786860&source=hp&ei=KtU9X-jDMZWqytMP7-W86A8&q=what+was+the+percentage+of+mask+wearing+at+blm+rallies&oq=what+was+the+percentage+of+mask+wearing+at+blm+rallies I'm pent up and missing football also and could use letting loose and cheering on the Bills, but this virus is brutal and very infectious -- I've already lost multiple friends and it sucks. I get the argument for individual rights, but when there are consequences that could lead to a cruel death... well, we owe it all to each other to make sacrifices.

They weren't drunk, they wore masks, and they social distanced (or at least many of them tried to).

Fans chose... wisely! I love that the Dallas play where, down 7-0, he calmly threw from his own end zone on 3rd & 10 and hit Beasley for a first down. The feeling that these kinds of plays will be converted and not end in disaster is a feeling I have not felt since... well, Kelly if ever.

I'm in a 4-sport league with seven others (three of whom are Bills fans) and we are in holding mode -- we did a seasonal draft when it looked like baseball was going back, but are now holding again. In the meantime, we've been doing a throwback league starting in 1978. I won 1979 and have been mediocre since, but 1984 looks good. I had Joe Ferguson, btw (he was up and down). I highly recommend it if you're missing fantasy sports. You can even create your own rules.

If he has the talent to do great punts, and can cut out the horrible punts, that is upside -- it's the very definition of upside. Players improve -- that happens very often in this league. I'm not saying I think he will do it, nor that we should keep him. In fact, in an earlier post, I said very clearly, by the same logic, a flyer on Turk would not have been a terrible idea. But to suggest that players can't improve is just silly.

D'oh, yes, sorry, it's been a long, depressing day and I forgot he was there in 2018. I still stand by his upside, but looking back, it's not a great progression. Hopefully, if he stays, he hits his ceiling, if not -- meh.

My point is he was a rookie and one with a lot of upside, and rookies sometimes get better. If he marshals that, he'll be great -- that's why he's still here. It was a nice luxury having a Brian Moorman we could depend on for over a decade. I suspect they're looking for that and not just an endless rotation of mediocrity. But also, by that logic, they should've kicked the tires on Turk (maybe he was asking for more than your average UDFA kicker). He also has kicked boomers at the most opportune times. But, I'm sorry, I'll let you get back to that hate (and don't think i don't understand it, he was hella frustrating last year) -- let it flow through you ;).