st pete gogolak

He's not a savior and he's not a long term answer. He's not even an answer beyond this year. I posted this only to posit this question - is the season worth saving? Do you waste this defense? I think Allen certainly has some potential but it's pretty obvious he's not ready. When is the last time Derek Anderson completed a pass in an actual NFL game? I think Fitzpatrick is a very limited QB but he's better than what we have. Anybody else out there that's can be had cheap that improves the situation?

Well, not in Tampa Bay, just nearby. There's a 35 year old quarterback named Ryan Fitzpatrick who as recently as a couple of weeks ago threw for 400 yards in back to back games. The Bucs aren't going anywhere, Winston will be the starter, they have a young third-string QB, so if the Bills offered something stupid (4th round pick for 35 year old back-up QB?), they'd probably take it. We all know what Fitzy is and what he isn't. He's certainly better than anything on the roster right now. It would be a shame to throw away the year when the D is playoff caliber. This isn't about Allen by the way. Some guys should sit their first year. He's one of them.

This is half-serious. Can someone please tell me the last time the Bills CORRECTLY managed the QB situation? It wasn't when the passed on Bridgewater. It wasn't when they picked Manuel. It wasn't when they cut Fitzpatrick. It wasn't when they traded a #1 for a washed up Bledsoe. It wasn't when they picked Losman. It wasn't when they traded a top ten picked for Rob Johnson. It wasn't when they gave a huge contract to Johnson for no reason. It wasn't when they passed on Drew Brees to pick yet another DB. It wasn't when they lost Jim Kelly to the USFL for THREE years. It wasn't when they traded Lamonica to the Raiders. OK, now I've made myself depressed. Sorry.

I'm not trying to define the kid's career after 4 games. Really, really not. The point of the thread was to speculate as to his ceiling. Key word there is speculate. Cam Newton has had two years with a completion percentage above 60% (actually one of the two years was 60% so he's had a grand total of one year above 60%). Newton's kind of a unicorn in that respect. An extremely successful NFL QB who is not terribly accurate. The point however is that if we drafted unicorn 2.0 we still can have a franchise quarterback who's completion percentage hovers around 60%. And it isn't fair to even compare rookie Cam to rookie Josh. Cam won the Heisman and played in the SEC. I am firmly in the camp that Allen would have been better off sitting this year but it is what it is.

Agree wholeheartedly but that doesn't seem to stop anyone else from expressing an opinion!

I was among the crowd unhappy with the Allen selection. As Vince Lombardi is often misquoted "accuracy isn't everything, it's the only thing". But after watching some of his college tape and especially the pre-season games, I came around. Based on the first five games of the season, it's WAY too early to make any generalizations as to where this ends up. But. . . you've got a kid with linebacker size, really strong arm, very good runner and serious accuracy issues. Remind you of anyone? Cam Newton, perhaps? If Allen's ceiling is in the Cam Newton zip code, is that a bad thing? After all, Newton's got an MVP trophy and has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Are the similarities to Cam what attracted McBeane to Allen? Better line, much better receivers, a year to learn how to diagnose defenses and make quicker decisions and, most important, just like in Carolina, an offensive scheme designed to take advantage of his strengths and I think we will be ok.

I hear that the Gronkowski kid out of Arizona is pretty good. Home town product. Probably be able to get him early second round.

You're kidding, right?

Licht is just blowing smoke. Unless the Bucs are 3-0 [Ron Howard narrator voice: "They're not."] Winston starts game 4.

Vlad, Vlad, and more Vlad.

Thank you. I don't have the analytics at my fingertips but I'm guessing that at the time of the overtime punt against the Colts, there was about a 90% chance of the game ending in a Bills loss or a tie. No I didn't walk out of the Oilers game at halftime. My brother did. I was taping the game in LA. Turned the recording off at halftime (why would I ever want to watch that nightmare again?). When the comeback started, I was too "superstitious" to turn the recording back on! I still have the Shout magazine cover with Reich and Christie jumping in the air. It's hanging in my office. Christie, by the way, lives in St. Pete and his daughter went to my daughter's high school. My wife got him to talk at career day. It was pretty hilarious.

Yeah, it was pre-season but frankly the ultra-conservatism is troubling. There is absolutely no way on earth we should have punted in overtime against the Colts. A tie puts us out of the running for the playoffs. It was extraordinarily lucky to win that game. My son and I attended the JAX playoff game. We walked out when McDermott punted on 4th and short with about three minutes to go. Yeah, they got the ball back but my God, show some moxie. You're in the playoffs for the first time in 17 years! Fun fact. I attended two Bills games in person last year. Carolina and JAX. Bills' O totals: zero touchdowns; two field goals; 6 and 7 point losses.

Boy, this is a really, really stupid topic. The playoff drought is over because the Bills were in the playoffs last year. It's not figure skating. There aren't style points.

His backup was some guy named Marty Schottenheimer.

Let's face it. This is going to be a very unusual year. If the defense is solid (and Edmunds plays well) and if there are signs that Allen is the real deal, I really don't care about our record. If the first two things come to pass and our record is really crappy, it means we have problems on the O-Line and/or receiver. Very fixable with cap room and high draft picks. I'm not advocating a tank by any means but if the above two things come to pass, I'm happy no matter what the record is.

Outstanding effort! Nothing but tweaks to original list. My tweak would be Mike Montler over Bemiller. The more Electric Company, the better!

What's crazy and maddening about the play is that at the 30 second mark of the film, the chances of McGee scoring a touchdown on the play have to be about 99%. He's got three blockers in front of him and one Saint left to beat. The Saint gets absolutely crushed and McGee (who has to be absolutely beyond gassed at this point) just has to move a bit to avoid the guy on the ground but gets tripped up trying to go over him. Yes, that is incredibly Billsy!

Really, you watched game film and that's what you got out of it? I've done a 180 on him only because I've watched some film. It was a high risk pick but the more film you watch, you can see that it was also a high reward pick.

I don't think it was a "gut feeling". I'm pretty sure it was watching his tape. Isn't there a big difference between the two?

Cam Newton's career completion percentage is 58.5% and he's got an MVP trophy and a Super Bowl appearance. The more film you see of this kid, the more you have to like him. Bring him along slow, clean up the footwork and maybe we'll have a replacement for Jim Kelly 22 years after he retired!

If we drafted Allen because he's a "cold weather quarterback" or because he "fits the City of Buffalo" we're dumber than I thought we are. If we drafted him because we were looking for a "Cam Newton type" who can run a Carolina offense, then we're still pretty dumb. If, however, we drafted him because he has a lot of impressive physical tools and because in two or three years the FO believes he can be an elite-level NFL quarterback, then we may be pretty smart. Man, NFL executives are idiots.

Pre-draft, really hadn't seen much Allen tape but really hated the pick. Ideally, Arizona outbids us at #7, takes Allen and we make the mini-trade with either 49'ers or Raiders to make sure we get Rosen. I thought Rosen was a much safer pick and that Allen's bust potential was sky-high. Post-draft (still not watching much film), my thinking was that Beane and McDermott rationalized the pick this way (1) Rosen's concussion and injury history must have been a HUGE concern; and (2) being enamored of all things Carolina, they're going to run a Carolina offense and plug in Cam Newton lite to run it (Newton's career NFL completion percentage is less than 59% by the way). This, of course, continues Buffalo's infatuation with strong armed QB's with big hands (Losman, Manuel, Jones, etc.) and ignores the two most important attributes of a modern NFL quarterback - accuracy and ability to quickly process information on the field. After looking at the film however (thanks OP!), I definitely have an open mind and I can see what Beane and McDermott are thinking. The accuracy isn't anywhere near as bad as I thought it would be, yes the footwork needs work and yes 1/3 of Wyoming's pass plays were total jailbreaks (he'll immediately feel comfortable behind the Bills' OL). Sit him for a year, spend next offseason beefing up the O-Line and the receiving corps and you may have something here.

The Bills traded too early, to.

Look at Butler's drafts from one perspective and one perspective only - 2018's QB-centric quarterback uber alles. If you look at his drafts from that vantage point, he was a total disaster. Waited way too long to look for a replacement for Kelly and when he did, he bombed with the Todd Collins pick. He made a very nice pickup with Flutie but then destroyed the value of that pickup by trading a #1 (no. 8 overall if I recall correctly) and a #4 for Rob Johnson and then compounds that mistake by handing Johnson a monster contract before he plays a down with us. John Butler had a lot of great qualities in regard to evaluating talent but one of the reasons for the 17 year playoff drought was Butler's utter inability to evaluate quarterbacks.

I haven't seen any that make me really happy but two I saw today made me really sad. One had Bills giving up both #1's and both #2's to move up to second spot to pick Josh Allen. Second mock had us moving up to #9 to pick Lamar Jackson. Ugh. I understand that they've made all these moves to move up to get a high profile QB and I understand that they'll have to overpay to do it. What I'd hate to see is a scenario where they are grossly overpaying. If the move isn't there for an acceptable price, don't do it. If four (or five) quarterbacks go in the top 11, a very good football player will be there for us.