Latason

The point of the Flutie analogy is that there's a reason why he was a career journeyman that never was a legitimate NFL starter. He relied on what the national media perceived as "Flutie Magic," which in reality was a dominant defense and a lot of luck. He was eventually exposed and shortly after vanished back into obscurity. EJ Manuel, like Rob Johnson at the time, was a young prospect that we invested a lot in and if nothing else at least had upside. Oh and he also beat the AFC Champion Titans in the playoffs, on the road, if it weren't for a special teams blunder (that I'm sure Flutie Magic would have stopped). It sucks that he didn't pan out. But he at least had potential. EJ is 24 years old. We invested two first round picks in him. He is 6-7 in his career, which is as good or better than a lot of quarterbacks that started from day 1. At worst, he is at least what Kyle Orton has proven to be over the last decade - a career journeyman that has never had sustained success and was offered a contract by NOBODY until August. At best, he could be a legitimate NFL quarterback. Why not roll the dice on the unknown rather than stick with a guy that is unanimously considered a backup quarterback by every front office in the NFL.

Kyle Orton is Doug Flutie. It's less taboo to say now, because after last nights historically bad performance the world is catching up to how much he sucks. But take the argument with a grain of salt because I genuinely thought it from day 1... Every single talking head points to the switch to Kyle Orton as a season saving move. Let's take a look at what exactly transpired since he was installed as the starter. 1. A 17-14 victory in Detroit, where Orton threw a critical pick 6, and Detroit missed 3 (!!!!) field goals, including what would have been the game winner in the last minute. Orton then orchestrated a 1 play, 20 yard drive where he threw a slant behind Sammy Watkins and Watkins made an incredible catch and run. We then hit a 58 yard fg for the win. #OrtonMagic 2. Follow that game up with a blowout loss at home to the Patriots in a must win spot. Nobody puts that on Orton, because we have become accustomed to these losses, but clearly he was awful and racked up garbage time stats. So he is completely exonerated in the public eye. 3. A 17-16 win at home against Minnesota, in which we needed a miraculous last second drive to beat arguably the worst team in the entire NFL. At home. Orton's magic covered up another horrendous showing in the entire game (and shadily on the last drive) with a miraculous pass on 4th and 20 (only caused by an idiotic intentional grounding the play before). Then a magic induced 1 yard touchdown pass. #OrtonMagic 4. A blowout win in the Meadowlands, in which the defense intercepted Geno Smith 3 times in the first quarter, and turned the Jets over 6 times total. Clearly a product of Orton Magic...yeah right??!! Throughout all of this anyone that actually watched the games could clearly see how bad he is. Which means all the pundits, and I’m sure many Bills fans who (like so many Bills fans who loved Doug Flutie), attribute 100% of their success to the quarterback and none of it to the defense which happens to lead the league in sacks and turnovers. Ask them before last night and I'm sure they preferred Kyle Orton over EJ Manuel. But now that Orton has cost us our season by orchestrating a stretch of 21 straight drives without a touchdown in two critical games against wild card contenders, the world is starting to catch on to how bad he is. And yet, the general national sentiment I'm sensing is that it's still not completely Orton's fault. I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!!! At the end if the day, I'm sure EJ Manuel is just another Rob Johnson and it probably doesn't matter. But why the heck not at least roll the dice on a 24 year old quarterback that you essentially spent two first round picks on, who at a baseline can at least do everything that Kyle Orton can do. There's a reason why Orton was not on a roster in mid-August (and Flutie was in the CFL for a decade). It makes absolutely no sense to me. And this is why the bills suck and will always suck.

Totally agree with your post.....great points!...anyone who thinks Poz is 2nd best MLB is either crazy or hasn't been watching Bills games....# tackles 5-8 yards downfield is not the dominating force a winning NFL team needs to anchor its defense....put Poz on the outside and get a beast in the middle!

NO...you're not the only one who thinks Jim Harbaugh would be a GREAT COACH.....learned the ropes thru the tough, physical cold-weather Michigan Wolverine brand of football....young, extremely bright, enthusiastic....and he's done a fabulous job at Stanford....he'd be an EXCELLENT CHOICE if we could pry him from Stanford....GREAT POST!

I think you've done a FINE JOB!.....with a couple of exceptions: Definite keeper: Terrence Magee (our best draft pick in the last 10 years!) Probably Need to keep McKelvin...jury's still out on him Unfortunately, have no choice but to keep our latest bust, Maybin. Last year's bust, Hardy, can be removed with the others you've listed.

I constantly see postings calling for upgrades to our defensive line and OLB......and while I agree we need upgrades in these areas, the heart and soul of the defense should be the MLB...and I can't think of a single NFL team that has a worse starting MLB than we do.... sure Poz makes lots of tackles, but how many of these tackles are for gains of less than 5 yards??....we need a tough force that can strip blockers and make plays near the line of scrimmage, not 5-10 yards downfield.... I would keep Poz, but move him to OLB....and find an NFL caliber MLB to man the middle and lead our defense. P.S....for the record, outside of our secondary, let's give some kudos to Kyle Williams.....a solid consistent force all season and a player to complement rather than replace!

Which is why we need a GM and scouting dept that can evaluate talent!.....and with all the criticisms being thrown around, how does Poz escape them??....WHAT NFL TEAMS HAVE A WORSE STARTING MLB THAN THE BILLS?

I don't have much faith in the # tackles stat....my guess is that Ellison's tackles are with relatively high average yards per gain, which needs to be combined with # tackles in assessing a defender's effectiveness....and I'm still not sure why this forum tends to kill Ellison, but treat Poz with such kid gloves.... even Chris Brown noted Poz's 11 tackles against the Panthers, but how many tackles did he make (other than his one 4th down stop) that were actually good defensive plays??....in my opinion, our linebacking is very weak and our real need is a Ray Lewis-type force in the middle that makes plays and doesn't get pushed around....move Poz to the outside and get a stud MLB in the draft!

perhaps you missed Poz getting wiped out on LenDale White's touchdown run....he's still a major work-in-progress on a defense that needs LOTS OF HELP!

I can't agree with you more....the Peters trade concludes an embarrasing debacle.

you're right on....where do the trademongers on the board expect to get an All-Pro tackle?!!....pay Peters what he's worth and stop this ridiculous bickering....we all want the Bills to recapture our glory days.....getting rid of Jason Peters will not expedite us getting there!

I like your thinking of taking Maualuga and shifting Poz outside....we need toughness in the middle

It looks like we're going to make the decision on Jauron tomorrow. Despite some of his bonehead moves, I don't think we necessarily have to get rid of him. The players love him and his teams are always hard-working and ready to play. He is not the best tactician, but I think an upgrade at defensive coordinator and a few defensive playmakers could make up for that. The only reason I would want to get rid of him is because I think there are some really good coaching prospects out there, namely Giants Defensive Coordinator Steve Spagnuolo. I think he's going to be an unbelievable coach in the John Fox mold, and I think he's worth getting rid of Jauron for. Also there's Bill Cowher, Jason Garrett, Jim Johnson, and that D Line coach from Carolina. I think it's a really interesting group, and after the early successes of new coaches like Mike Smith, Tony Sporano, John Harbaugh and Mike Singletary, it might be worth a shot. Also, a lot of coaches will be demoted to defensive coordinator again so that's worth looking out for. Guys like Romeo Crennel, Mike Nolan, Eric Mangini could be nice fits. As far as the Angelo Crowell thing goes, that is really exciting. I think he could be the perfect type of versatile player that can either be our playmaker at outside linebacker or can stay in the middle and move Poz to the outside, where he will have less responsibility and more freedom to make plays. I always loved Angelo and knew how big it was when he announced he was out for the year before week 1. Plus he would come cheap, and could give us more options to take the best guy available for the draft. It'd be nice to see us make a run at a big-time free agent like Julius Peppers, but who knows how likely that is. As it stands right now, we are sitting at the 11 pick, and there are 4 guys that I love, so I'm really hoping 1 of them can drop to us. In order they are: 1) Defensive End Bryan Orakpo, from Texas, 2) Linebacker Aaron Curry, from Wake Forest, 3) Defensive End Michael Johnson, from Georgia Tech, 4) Linebacker Ray Malauga, from USC. With 2 big time quarterbacks in Matthew Stafford and Sam Bradford, 2 big time offensive tackles in Andre Smith and Michael Oher, a big time wide receiver in Michael Crabtree, and a premiere running back in Beanie Wells, it looks like it might be very likely for a big time defensive playmaker to drop to us. Who knows though, its still real early. I think we all know that re-signing Freddie is a MUST. Between Terrence McGee, Leodis McKelvin, Ashton Youboty, and Reggie Corner, I think our cornerbacks can stack up with any group in the entire NFL, so it doesn't seem likely that Jabari will be back, although I really loved the way he was playing. Our safeties are stellar, our offensive line really showed great improvement through the year, and I am really starting to like our young tight end unit (except for Royal). That said, our 3 biggest needs are the athletic defensive end, playmaking linebacker, and a game breaking wide receiver. While the game breaking wide receiver is not a need, it could be a luxury given a favorable market. Here are some of the names that I expect to be available: Plaxico Burress, Braylon Edwards (hhttp://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Cleveland-you-have-not-filled-Braylon-Edwards-w?urn=nfl,130132), Anquan Boldin, and TJ Houshmandzadeh and/or Chad Johnson (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/05/houshmandzadeh-believes-either-he-or-chad-johnson-will-be-gone-s/). I know we just spent a ton on Lee, but if we can get one of these guys relatively cheap, that would be a very impressive WR corps to go with Lee, Josh Reed in the slot, Roscoe for the big plays, and the promising Steve Johnson, while Hardy can still have more time to develop and be used in red zone situations. Your thoughts?

When I read all the criticism about this play and how Jauron could have even considered calling this play, let alone overturn Schonert and demand he call it, I put it all in perspective. I don't care that Jauron wanted this play to be run. The logic is reasonable, it would have reached the 2 minute warning either way, so an unexpected pass could give them the chance to reach the first down marker and end the game. The Jets had clearly stacked the box and had the Bills run the ball there it seemed like it would go nowhere. What bothers me most is that Jauron is too scared to throw the ball one time with Trent Edwards at the helm on Monday Night, after making a tremendous 30 yard throw on the first play of the drive. Yet he is confident in putting the ball in JP Losman's hands, the most sack-prone, turnover-prone quarterback I have ever seen. One quarterback plays his best in the last 5 minutes of the game and one plays his worst, and Jauron chose to put the ball in the hands of the latter of the two. It just shows a complete lack of competence and playing to your personnel, and at this point there is no defending Jauron. As far as I'm concerned, he and JP should be fired immediately and not even allowed to travel with the team these last two weeks.

Why does everybody always have to concentrate on the next 4 games. Can't we just concentrate on beating our biggest rival in arguably one of the most financially important games for this franchise? Here's a list of reasons why I think we will beat the fins. 1. A healthy Terrence McGee and much improved Leodis McKelvin will not let Ted Ginn destroy us this time. We will make them one dimensional and force them to run, and the run defense has been solid all year. 2. Lindell will actually hit his field goals in a dome 3. Our offensive line has been nothing short of dominant the past 3 weeks. Since Butler has returned, the only blemish for this offensive line is JP Losman's ineptitude and indecisiveness. The running game has been amazing, and while a lot of it is attributed to Beauty and the Beast, you gotta give this line some props. We will control the line of scrimmage and control the clock. 4. Miami has looked really shaky the past 2 weeks in a blowout loss to New England (at home) and by barely beating the St. Louis Lambs. People have figured out the wildcat offense, and when it comes down to it, Miami really isn't all that great. We should've beaten them at Miami had it not been for some bad breaks, and with a healthy Josh Reed for the entire game this time, we should beat them at home. 5. Trent and Dick will be playing for their jobs. Everyone loves to hate on them, including me at times, but I am very confident they will not come out looking scared and indecisive. If nothing else they will at least play with some urgency and be looking to make plays. 6. Vegas likes us. Since when is Vegas ever wrong? I know we came out as only 1 point favorites, but you still gotta like the fact that they think we will win. I know so many people on this site loves to hate on this team and whine about how bad we are and how we will never win another game, but please don't litter this thread with your cynicism and pessimism. I fully encourage any other optimists to contribute any other reasons why we will win on Sunday, but if you have something negative to say, why don't you just keep it to yourself this time or start your own thread. Of course, if JP starts on Sunday then disregard this entire message.