All_Pro_Bills

Like Vince Lombardi said 'winning isn't everything, its the only thing'. At the end of the season what's important is 'how many' not 'how'.

http://work.chron.com/long-average-career-nfl-player-12643.html "According to a study by the American College of Sports Medicine, long snappers, kickers and punters have the longest NFL careers. These players are on special teams, taking the field only occasionally. Their roles rarely involve direct hits from other players."

This is the core of the entire issue. The ref's are supposed be a neutral party that enforces the rules of the game. Not active particpants in the play and alter the outcome of that particular play and perhaps the game. The argument of whether NE gets preferential treatment is another story but one which has a lot of merit. So exactly what is the scope of their authority here? Should the officials inform a team or player when any procedural rule will be violated on a play? Inform a WR that he is covering an eligible receiver? Let the defense know they have 12 men on the field before the play? Tell the QB his offense is in an illegal formation so they can shift out of it? Tell a DE he's lined up offsides and to take a step back? From where I sit the NFL's response is more damage control than clarification of the rules. The ref exceeded the definition of his role and should have kept out of the play.

Not sure if this was discussed but this was in USA Today. Did official give NE some help in avoiding a penalty call on the Jets final FG attempt? I don't recall the Bills ever getting 'tips' from the ref's to avoid a potential call like illegal formation. http://ftw.usatoday....ew-england-york

The Bills had 3 pro bowlers along with Hughes against a re-worked interior offensive line yet they could not sustain any consistent pressure on Brady. Assuming its not a lack of effort, which I don't believe, this is simply unacceptable for the coaching staff not to develop a gameplan to utilize your area of strength against what is expected to be your opponents area of weakness. Yet against the Patriots the Bills, regardless of the names and faces on the coaching staff, continue to use the 'groundhog day' gameplan twice a year.

It's gotten frustrating to even watch. They've been stealing your lunch money for over a decade now. Beat you up a couple times a year behind the school parking lot . Pretty much following the same script each time. You've won a couple battles over the years but that just seems to be the law of averages at work. The Bills have no answer on defense for the 2-TE formations. They play 10 yards off receivers that you know are going to run 5 yard crossing patterns. They don't make a commitment to getting in his face and give Brady all day to throw when everybody and his brother knows he'll pick you apart given enough time in his comfort zone. Which he seems to do every time. They make a living beating you by winning the turnover battle but your offense always makes the critical mistake at the wrong time and they don't take care of the ball against them. And so on.. Yet this team has made incremental progress at best in over 10 years of facing the exact same opponent with the exact same strategy each and every time they've played the Patriots. Its no secret what they are going to do. They don't need to do anything different until you put up a legitimate fight and beat the crap out them 2 times in a season.

My wife and I watched the 1st half last night and when I saw that play I looked at my wife and she told me 'don't say it'. I said 'Well, you know what I'm thinking'. 'I guess the ref's thought the Bills were playing tonight.'

I think that's the wrong question to ask for a couple reasons, the first being that I suspect none of us has any knowledge of the inner workings of the NFL officials formal or informal organization and the second is such a question diverts the issue. I think what you are trying to say is that because we are Bills fans, we perceive a bias against our team that in reality does not exist. And you make a fair point. But by re-watching the game and evaluating calls that were made and not made on Sunday I observe a lack of consistency between the calls against each team. The Bills getting called for offensive PI for example, and the Pats getting away with in some cases, more blatant acts. Specifically when the score was 23-14 and the Bills were driving and you could sense the momentum of the game was swinging our way. Those PI calls against Woods and Watkins killed the drive (and Orton took a sack to knock them out of FG range) and killed the momentum. Gronkowski had an obvious push off on McKelvin at the goal line that should have been called but was ignored by the offical (this was called back on an O line hold). That said, the Bills had so many other blunders they probably didn't deserve to win the game anyway. But my observations go beyond the Bills. I see calls against teams like the Rams, the Vikings, the Browns, and others. Last night for example there was a phantom offensive PI call against the Rams when they were driving with a 14-3 lead. Go up 21-3 and that game changes. Maybe they win, maybe not. But I am not a fan of the Rams or those teams. I have no bias or rooting interest in the outcome of these games. And yet I observe the same type of official bias and I see these bad calls that seem to go against the same teams from game to game and week to week. I think there's absolutely no question the official favor certain players and certain teams. Do you believe they protect certain quarterbacks more than others? Or certain CB's can mug and hold a receiver and not get called while others get PI? Its' like in the NBA where Michael Jordan never got called for traveling or charging.

Run out the clock? That's a big fat zero on that hunch. Good teams have a different mentality, they go for the knockout. As for resting, they get six days to rest after the game is over and I'm not taking two of my best defensive players off the field unless they are physically or mentally unable to perform. That wasn't the case here. When you hear things like this in losing efforts like this is a series of blunders, some small, some bigger, that by themselves aren't enough to lose the game but combined and put together doom you to losing. I liked the Marrone hire but am starting to reconsider my view and wonder if he's got a grip on the job.

This is the core of the problem. In baseball the umpires strike zone might not be 100% consistent from umpire to umpire but each umpire's strike zone is pretty close to 100% consistent from across games, innings, batters, and pitchers. If it was the same as football the strike zone would change depending on who is pitching or batting along with what inning it was and which teams were playing. The Hughes unsportsmanlike call was riduculous. The offensive PI on Watkins and Woods on were 'soft' and killed the momentum the Bills had wrestled back. The game pretty much ended there. On similar plays the Pats got away with the same. Even the announcers saw it. You watch Richard Sherman in coverage. Tell me if he was wearing a Bills uniform and a different name on his back that he'd get away with it. You watch the other games. Its the same thing. Somebody mentioned Romo getting drilled 2-3 steps after he released the ball. No call. The Bills hit Brady that way you'll get a flag for sure and maybe an ejection. They protect certain guys and not others. I have absolutely no doubt the officials favor certain teams and certain players. I don't see how anyone watching the games on Sunday can draw a different conclusion. Whether its a matter of league policy or just human nature is unclear. But its as obvious as it gets so far this season and the league needs to clean it up.

After watching Brady pick apart the Bills defense for the entire 21st century everybody here knows the only way to knock him off his game is to put pressure in his face consistently. Heck, even the family dog knows this! But our DC sticks to his comfort zone even after watching tape of KC drubbing the Pats with consistent pressure and the Bengals getting throttled using the same approach he dials up. And the HC is okay with that? Baffling. The 3-man rush. Raise your hand if you were 100% certain they were going to get a first down when you saw the Bills defense line up in that formation. Those 3 turnovers and sub-par offensive line play didn't help either. But Sully is right, in the big moment of truth the Bills came up empty, offense, defense, coaching. That's all there is to it.

Those two offensive PI calls on Watkins and Woods were really soft and I hate pointing out the ref's because the Bills did more than enough to lose the game on their own. But those calls were momentum killers when the Bills were driving to make the game interesting. Later, Gronk clearly pushed the defender off to catch the TD that was called back but for offensive line holding not PI. No consistency in the game and watching the muggings they let go in other games around the league yesterday (like Dallas/Seattle) the consistency is terrible. I've had enough of Spiller. He'll make an occasional great play but that fumble was unacceptable. The one thing you can't do there. Rather than do what he typically does, which is run out of bounds to stop the clock (especially when they are trying to kill the clock) he stays in bounds to get a few more yards rather than doing the smart thing and go out of bounds to stop the clock and save a timeout. Not resigning him will be addition by subtraction. Shwartz not bringing any pressure, and going to a 3 man rush in certain situations was the wrong approach. Bill in NY is right here on his OP. Pettine knows the Pats and would have come up with a better plan. Brady had too much time and that isn't what you want to do with him. With a bum ankle they should have brought more pressure. The Bills o-line needs to step it up. What I thought would be a strength this season is so far a disappointment and the weakest link. We're always blaming the lack of quality guard play Wood is at fault too.

Perhaps the carry the D coach off the field was over the top and inappropriate but if the Lions objected to it then Tate, because of his constant after-the-catch antics, was simply the wrong guy to deliver the message. That's how I see it.

I think we're 2-0 on FOX this season so this move might be a good omen.

True. Most of the detractors of the trade up were negative on it because they saw the Bills addressing the wrong problem. And not because of any issues with Watkins' ability and potential to star at the pro level. They expected the Bills to finish in the bottom third of the league because they didn't see Manuel as a viable option at QB. Getting an elite receiver would not solve the problem with production from the QB position. The move to Orton, barring any surprises, has solved that problem for at least this season. Because of the playoff drought some were down on the Bills in general. If the pick the Bills gave up in 2015 turns out to be in the 20 to 22 range that might alter the thinking somewhat.

I worry about covering Megatron but apparently his ankle is still bothering him. So that could be good news for the Bills secondary. I suspect he'll play but maybe a bit dinged up. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11633609/detroit-lions-coach-jim-caldwell-says-receiver-calvin-johnson-miss-sunday-game-buffalo-bills

I see these 'flaws' too and while there's always a chance he turns it around and becomes 'good' its not something that happens all that often. But to me what's missing from the conversation is something none of us can provide. That's an explanation from the Bills front office, current or former, what they saw in EJ that lead them to conclude that he either 'had' what it takes or that he could 'learn' to become a competent NFL QB. Why did they spend a #1 on this guy? What was their development plan? Is it still valid? Did Kolb getting hurt really set it all back? What's the plan now? I haven't heard a peep out of Whaley and while I don't expect the hear anything on the topic from Nix it would be nice to know what the thought process was at the time and the rational for making the EJ selection in round one of 2013. I don't expect them to come out and say we made a big mistake but what in the world did they see here?

It was a dumb play for sure, the kind of mental mistakes that lose games. And I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread but at the time I was yelling at the TV somebody touch the guy. The Bills ended up getting the ball back with 1:42 left at their 29. If anybody would have 'tagged' Foster down they would have gotten the ball back with around 2:50 left with one timeout and the 2 minute warning to stop the clock. That would have removed some of the constraints the Bills offense was forced to operate under in that specific situation. But the way the offense was playing I don't have much confidence the outcome would have been any different. They blew the opportunity to break the game open with the pick-6 play. 14-10 instead of 17-7 which should have been enough to win it.

I would use the terms reliable and consistent regarding Woods rather than best. If you're looking for upside potential then it's Watkins. If you're looking at previous performance in a pro system it might be Mike Williams. For shear speed you would think Goodwin. But Woods had a good rookie year and looks like the most consistent performer to this point in the season. Regardless, I am eagerly awaiting the remainder of the season to see what this receiver group can do with a QB that I expect to deliver the ball with a good level of accuracy, a QB that should be able to effectively distribute the ball to the playmakers and give them the opportunity to showcase their abilities.

EJ's problems are not due to a condition. Its due to his poor decision making process and his bad throwing mechanics. He needs to come to grips with this, subject himself to a lot of self inspection, criticism from everywhere, and come out of this demotion with a solid awareness of the problems along with an action plan and desire to correct them. This will certainly test his mental 'toughness' and as someone who has probably been a better athlete than most of the other kids growing up it might be the first time in his life that he's been told he's not good enough. He's probably going through the same feelings and emotions that somebody that gets laid off from a job experiences after many years of doing it well. A lot of people have been through that including me. You either mope around feeling sorry for yourself or pick yourself up and get motivated to move on. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger might apply here with EJ. Some of his issues are certainly correctable and with an solid support system he can improve. While there's very few examples of a young pro being pulled at this point in his career coming back and playing at a high level it shouldn't be viewed as impossible. I support Marrone's decision but I'm pulling for Manuel to face his problems, fight to improve, and come back better at some point. But I think the fault can be found by EJ taking a good look in the mirror.

This isn't a game I figured the Bills would win and I'm not sure if Orton replacing EJ at QB is enough to change the outcome. But maybe the Lions are due for a clunker or Megatron's ankle is still sore? But right now I say Lions 24 Bills 20

I'd be extremely surprised if Pegula comes in with some results based metrics to determine whether or not to retain the current coaching staff. I'd expect it to be based more of whether or not the program is headed in the right direction or not. Is there improvement and can we expect it to continue given another year of the same system with the same management and coaching staff? From a business perspective I think Marrone did more to prove his worth by making the decision to let Manuel sit and go with Orton now rather than later. Instead of being whishy-washy and waiting until the decision made itself later, at a time when it would be irrelevant to the outcome of the season, he made the decision now with 12 games left while there is a good chance to win enough to qualify for the post-season. Orton's performance will also give us some benchmarks to evaluate EJ. You remove one component from a system that is not functioning properly. If the system then performs correctly with that one component replaced you can assume that part was the cause of the faulty system operation. If Orton struggles then we're left with the quandry of trying to figure out if the new QB is as bad, if the OC is the problem, or if its the fault of the other players in the offense. My expectation is that after a couple games its going to be obvious to even the most casual observer that the offense is much more productive in terms of yardage and points and Marrone's decision is going to be proven right. And I won't be left to watch the Bills for the remainder of the season thinking the only way we win is if the other QB plays worse than ours!

The question with Pegula is who are 'his own people'? There's absolutely no guarantee TP is going to improve the situation by bringing in a completely new front office and coaching staff. Hopefully his first move will be to consult with some highly regarded personnel people like Polian. But I think Whaley has shown enough so far to warrant another season and I see a Bills team that is playing good ball minus the QB position. If we had gotten even average production from under center we'd be 3-1 for sure. In a game of percentages he's had enough hits to overcome the strike outs. Still his handling of the QB situation and the thought process behind it warrants some questioning. That said, I'll never understand what they saw in EJ that convinced them he was worthy of a #1 pick. By all accounts he was, and still is, a project with accuracy, mechanics, and decision making issues. My expectation is that Orton, while being no savior here, is going to play good enough to allow the players around him to perform at a much higher level than what they've been capable of with Manuel running the offense. I expect we'll see some 100+ yard, 2 TD games out of Sammy during the remainder of the season. We'll see if Watkins turns out to be a generational talent worthy of the cost.

Perhaps Bills management does not know yet but the trend is headed in that direction. I don't think anyone here advocating a change at the QB position has reached that conclusion based on an emotional evaluation. The numbers and the results support that conclusion along with some basic observation. It doesn't take a hall of fame talent evaluator to see EJ is struggling and could possibly benefit from a change. Can you honestly tell me this guy has any level of confidence at this point? To let him dangle in the breeze here just invites ruining him for good. So what should they do? Let the efforts of the entire team flush down the drain in order to evaluate if EJ can quarterback at a competitive level in the NFL, essentially wasting another year? Miss the playoffs again? Surrender a top 5 pick to the Browns for the Watkins trade? Give the new owner no choice but to clean house with the coaching staff and front office? Signal to a fan base that's sick and tired of waiting until next year that the team is content to wait until next year and that winning is a secondary goal and doesn't matter? The goal in the NFL is to win as many games as possible, make the playoffs, and work to win a championship. Any coach or manager that doesn't put that as job #1 shouldn't be working. With the way EJ is playing right now the only way the Bills win any games is if their quarterback plays worse than ours. That's a pathetic strategy. And given his low performance rating season to date its hard to imagine that happening. Maybe EJ can outplay Geno Smith given his recent performance but I have my doubts and if they maintain the current course we're looking at 3-5 at the half way point. Orton isn't the long-term answer but he's good enough to provide a measureable improvement. Enough to turn some of those certain future L's to potential W's.

Perfectly stated. As I said a couple pages back EJ is a project but this team is not. And starting Orton, a veteran with known limitations, is a better option to give this team a chance to win games now while taking some precautions not to ruin EJ here for the future.