Hapless Bills Fan

It would have to be re-negotiated before the trade, because once the league year starts and he's traded, he has the cards. He can say "nope!" and we're on the hook. But even assuming he re-negotiates, I'm just boggled by the notion that he's the missing piece and the best use of our limited cap dollars.

That's a really good question, especially where a player like McKenzie is concerned. When he was picked up by the Bills in 2018, I don't think he could run routes worth a damn, nor could he track the ball. And he got the axe in Denver for being Mr Fumblemitts on KR/PR, and promptly repeated that act here such that we went out and signed Andre Roberts strictly to lock down the KR/PR thing. I think the Bills kept him because they were hoping he could be coached up to be That Guy, and yet he hasn't quite gotten there. Teams put the most effort into making sure their starters have all the resources they need, then on coaching up their own draft picks, obviously - those guys are an investment. How much effort have they put into coaching up McKenzie? My guess is he got a good bit of attention and resources as the KR/PR this off-season, and he seemed pretty "into" Chad Hall so I think he got some good attention there too. Daboll has been quoted as saying "until a player feels you care about them, they aren't going to care about what you say". I think McKenzie has been kind of on his own to develop himself as an athlete, all his life. The same toughness and self-talk that makes a guy keep grinding in those circumstances, probably also make it harder for a guy to "buy in" and truly listen to what he's being told and make major changes. Who has been keeping injured Beasley on the field, and healthy McKenzie off it except in a limited role or when infection benched the starter? I promise that the answer to that question would not be "McDermott"

Oh, is that who offered him? Can you give any more details? (also wondering how you know - again, not doubting, just asking for source) Unless the Bears offered him a multi-year contract or more guaranteed $$, I can't blame him for thinking that perhaps he'd be better off here with a chance to compete at both KR/PR and for playing time.

I think this is one of the stranger ideas you've had. The Giants need to clear cap. If they keep Saquon on the roster, they owe him $7M fully guaranteed on a 5th year option the previous regime picked up. But, while a 5th year option is widely reported as "fully guaranteed", "The option year becomes fully guaranteed on the first day of the league year in the fifth contract year" It is guaranteed for injury when exercised, but unless Barkley's team somehow argues for that, the Giants could move on by releasing him. Sure, they'd like to get something for him instead - but what team is going to trade for the oft-injured Barkley on a 1 year, fully guaranteed at the time of the trade, $7M deal? It's fine to "not write Barkley off so fast", but the Bills have limited cap space. Why would it serve them to trade both draft picks AND players who are still cheap labor on their rookie deal, for $7M 1 year fully guaranteed contract on a player who has never been able to live up to his promise, and who will need something we currently don't have - a strong run-blocking IOL - to realize his potential here?

We'll see......McKenzie made it pretty clear, in the podcast linked in the OP, that he feels he has shown he can play in the slot. Ty Dunne kind of reinforced and encouraged that idea with McKenzie, that someone will give him an opportunity - and McKenzie alluded to taking a "pay cut" to come back to Buffalo. Since he in fact got a pay raise - same signing bonus, $990k salary vs $825k salary - the implication is another team offered him more money and he chose to come back to Buffalo. This might not be from love of the team and the city, but could reflect that the Bills at least gave him a guaranteed signing bonus and the other team might not have, or might have offered less. Anyway, they seem to think that some NFL GM will be calling him with an offer, and by implication at least one did last season - when we know who it is and what they offer, we can discuss if they're in their right minds or not. If by "nobody in their right mind thinks that", you mean the Bills FO, I think you're probably right. Bringing him back when they hoped he could be the KR/PR as well as the "gadget guy" made a lot of sense. I doubt McDermott wants to give him another chance at KR/PR - we will shop elsewhere for that role, because we don't want to be putting Micah Hyde back there on PR either. I don't know where the "bad practice habits" stuff came from (and still haven't gotten an answer from you or another TBDian who said this - again, I'm not questioning what you said, just want to know where it came from), but his ball security is clearly not what the Bills need. In addition to his regular season fumble/muff, he fumbled on the first KR in the KC game and it luckily went OOB or that would have been a disaster on the first play. And from stuff he said in the OP podcast, I see hints that he may be challenging to coach - he said "I'm just a little guy, I need to hold on to the ball however I can" (does that mean when his coaches try to tell him to hold onto the ball differently to avoid fumbles, he says "sure coach!" with his mouth and goes "LaLaLa" in his ears?). @Shaw66 reported that he saw McKenzie body-catching practice balls before a game, while the other WR were catching with their hands, which is ridiculous for a 5 year veteran with pretentions to start in the NFL at WR. Anyway, I'm guessing that McKenzie does get an offer from a team that is WR-poor and will offer him the chance to be the primary slot receiver, because of his speed and because of the good catches he put on film this season. Then the question will be, will he make good, or will it go like his KR/PR experiment? The Bills started to use McKenzie in more of a dual threat role, running him out of the backfield at least once in the last 4 games and 3x in each playoff game. I would like to see them look for a more proven dual threat, either a RB in the draft or a vet FA. And there are only so many roster spots and so much cap money.

The Chiefs have a long history of overlooking all sorts of problems if the talent level is high enough. It's worth noting that the Chiefs drafted Tyreek Hill while he was on probation for "felony domestic assault and battery by strangulation" of his 8 weeks pregnant GF, and dismissed from the OSU football program. Didn't stop the Chiefs from drafting him in the 5th round, or from keeping him on the roster when he was accused of breaking his son's arm in 2019 (but not charged) and the following exchange was leaked: A portion of the Tyreek Hill audio with Crystal Espinal: Espinal: "What do you do when the child is bad? You make him open up his arms and you punch him in the chest." Hill: “You do use a belt. That’s sad,” Hill said. “Even my mama says you use a belt.” — Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) April 26, 2019 Espinal: "He's terrified of you." Hill: "You need to be terrified of me too, b****." — Terez A. Paylor (@TerezPaylor) April 25, 2019 Note the language. Not "he has no reason to be terrified of you, you need to be terrified of me"; Nope. "you need to be terrified of me too, B word." The Chiefs suspended him that spring, then decided he had been purged of his troubles and brought him back. I don't know what the deal was with Hunt. From what I remember of what Reid said at the time, it was more "he lied to us about what happened" vs. "we can't tolerate what happened". Maybe they figured they could do without Hunt now that they had Mahomes, more than they could do without Hill, and they could look like they GAS about him. RBs are easier to replace. Gay played for the Chiefs last Sunday, while out on bail from DV charges.

I caught a tidbit of some talk on sports radio pointing out that on the one hand, if Dorsey takes over an already successful offense with an already established QB, the "bar" for him to show an impact and establish himself as a "QB whisperer" or a top OC in high demand as a HC is going to be pretty high. He has to meet or exceed an already high standard. On the other hand, if he goes to NYC and transforms Daniel Jones, it's going to be "All Hail the Chief" Counterpoising that, if he goes to NYC, Daboll calls offensive plays, and he's seen as Daboll's underling, he's going to be in his shadow and may not be taken as seriously as a HC candidate. Both jobs have arguments in their favor from the POV of taking a step in his career. Both tenures could end badly - if the Bills offense and Allen take a step back next year and Dorsey is the OC, he would most certainly be the "fall guy" (absent serious injuries) and could even go "one and done" like Dennison did. On the other hand if Jones continues to tank, Daboll is almost certain to get the green light to try again with a new QB and a couple years to develop him, so Dorsey would likely get 3 years.

“Players don’t care how much you know,” Daboll said once, “until they know how much you care. I think that’s an important quality that I try to be better at every year.” True https://nypost.com/2022/01/29/brian-daboll-must-help-daniel-jones-become-giants-franchise-qb/ Huh....The promise Jones showed as a rookie under Pat Shurmur.....and offensive coordinator Mike Shula

I tell ya what, if they vote in Rodgers after the end of his season in GB it's going to look as farcical as the probowl.

You know, that untouched fumble in the Colts game was something a lot of coaches would bench a guy for If it's true that McKenzie was fumbling or muffing punts in practice as well, he really deserved to be benched (I don't know if it's true, I keep asking for a source on this rumor and getting blanked) McKenzie did himself dirty if true Not that episode (it's from Dec 30th) but it might be one of the shows listed here: https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/podcasts/the-extra-point-with-sal-capaccio-20270 I can't get them to play for me, though, tried 2 different browsers.

So to me, it's an unanswered question: why did the intermediate passing game that was so successful last year, fundamentally disappear this season? I have not watched nearly the amount of all-22 I watched last season for {reasons} and I don't have quick "football eyes" to pull the most info out of commercial broadcast film, so take this as a caveat. My hunch is that early in the season, it had to do with the complete absence of the run game. We struggled to maintain a run game last year against good OLs with the zone runs which had come to predominate, and with the predictability of playcalling with down distance and formation (running from under center and passing from the shotgun, but even more pronounced with down and distance). We didn't do a thing to fix that off-season: in fact, from Game 1, we seemed to come out with the philosophy that we were going to go 4 and 5 wide, empty backfields, and lay a laser light show (passing attack) on opponents. The premise of the off-season seemed to be "teams can take away Diggs and bracket Beasley over the middle, but they won't be able to take away Diggs and Sanders or bracket Beasley and Sanders over the middle. Our passing game is gonna be 🔥🔥🔥 and we don't need no stinkin' run game". Or maybe the idea was with a healthier Feliciano and Ford, we would actually be able to execute zone runs up the middle? Well, surprise - the response of defenses, starting with Pittsburgh and continuing with Jacksonville later in the season was: "we know you want to come at us in the passing game, we know you don't want to (and maybe can't) run - so ***** run defense. We're gonna rush 3 or 4 but still get home by stunting or showing rush then dropping defenders in coverage (but you don't know who) so we overload one or the other side of the line. Meanwhile we keep 2 safeties over the top and blanket the intermediate passes with 5 defenders. We're not worried about the short stuff - we know Josh Allen is constitutionally adverse to taking them." That's the template Pittsburgh laid out in Week 1 and other teams copied (again, caveat above). They weren't subtle about it either. Both Pittsburgh's DC and Urban Meyer sketched out what they saw on a cocktail napkin before the games. At the end of the season, we returned to more gap/pin pull runs and we also started to use Allen on designed runs, and that gouged defenses and stopped them from being able to say ""***** run defense, we don't need no stinking run defense" and dropping back into coverage/stunting to overload one side of the line. If you listen to Mitch Morse's press conference after the Jacksonville loss, he pretty well acknowledges what they were dealing with. IMHO, the biggest development that needs to happen is to re-open the intermediate passing game where Allen is so deadly. To support this, I think we need to keep growing the run game and becoming more seamless about our run/pass playcalling tendencies from different formations so that we become more unpredictable. Allen needs to develop his judgement in 'taking what the defense gives you" to take the short checkdown. We need to continue to develop our OL as well, but no OL is going to hold up when defenders say "***** run defense" and feel empowered to leave chunks of the field undefended. It would be great to have a fast deep threat, but even the fastest deep threat needs good protection to hold up in order to keep the QB on his feet and unaffected long enough to execute precisely. So that's why I think the above is the priority. If we can protect and pick teams apart over the middle, the deep balls will come open.

Yeah, he's barely figured out how to find the hot read against a blitz or take the wide-open checkdown promptly when it can gain 10 yds instead of waiting until it's stuffed for 2.

Thank you, this was a very enjoyable watch and a great break from the 17th thread about Dorsey and our new OC

LOL not that he doesn't deserve it, but don't you think it's a bit of a consolation prize for naming Herbert and Jackson to the pro bowl ahead of him?

What's not easily replaceable about McKenzie is his speed and quickness. He's that Fast Guy who has shown he can actually develop into a football player, though it took him a couple years. He can block now, surprisingly well for a small guy. He can run actual routes and make moves now. He's starting to be used out of the backfield. But he still has flaws, and maybe they're fatal flaws to him taking the next step. Ball security is the biggy. What show is this? I'd like to listen, do you have a linky or point me at where to find it online?

What part of that show was McKenzie full of *****? Not saying that I disagree, I'd like to understand that as a response to what I posted. That said ....Yolo posted upthread that McKenzie said he slept through McDermott's address to the team on Monday am so there's that. I didn't hear it in the show, but I could have missed it. Benched: He made a couple twitter/insta posts, but his teammates said he came in high energy and worked hard as always. Is it the couple of instagram posts "Hurts" and "Damn!" that constitute whining? McKenzie definitely has a reputation as a jokester and for stirring the ***** with trash talk. Said he got on the plane and right away called out the defense. Well, they needed to be called out. Oh, I loved his play. Remember it's not just the NE game, but the final game vs Miami last season. He had a couple ST TDs in other games called back for penalties, too. But he had his chance to show he could be the full-time KR/PR, and he muffed it. He wants his chance to show he can be the full time slot guy, and he'll probably get it - but I'm not sure he'll get it here. My feeling is that McKenzie is a guy who is holding himself back with the same hard-headedness that got him this far. He's had to "tune out the noise" of people telling him he wasn't good enough and couldn't do it, to believe in himself and keep grinding. But that also means tuning out people who are trying to coach you to improve and help you reach another level sometimes. I thought that came out pretty clearly between the lines of what he said during the show. The coaches are telling him stuff he needs to work on and he's not arguing, maybe even nodding, but inside he's "yeah yeah, we'll see."

Right, so that's not just "stunk". The Giants gambled that they could still contend one more year with Eli if they beefed up their D, and it didn't work. Prior to Carolina, he was OC of the Bucs in the late '90s when they had a run to the conference championship - with Trent Dilfer at QB He was QB coach of the Dolphins in 2000 and 2001 when they had a couple 11-5 seasons - with Jay Fiedler as his QB - and then when they replaced Gailey with Norv Turner 🤦‍♂️ etc etc My point is that he's got a much longer resume than either Giants or Carolina. I'm not saying he's an inspiring choice or a young hotshot, but that's fundamentally what the choice is: 1) we can go with a young guy who has never been an OC and might or might not be able to do it on his own 2) we can go with a guy who has OC experience, and who isn't currently an OC because he didn't light the world on fire in his previous shots I don't have a good feeling for how much Shula's previous resume is impacted by limitations of the QB's he's worked with, and how much he has an idea on how to run offense and tries to push his personnel into ideas, or how "up to date" and flexible he is. That's really key.

It's not just that. The OL stepped up in the run game because we altered the type of runs we were trying to execute. We returned to more gap/pin and pull blocking that we ran in 2019 and got away from in 2020. Singletary stepped up his game, but I think part of it was giving him some blocking in front of him he had some faith in. I think Gabe stepped up, and I think the Bills gave Sanders more work than the state of his "chemistry" (for want of a better word) with Josh and his age should have had. But I don't think Gabe "proved he was a better fit for our offense", and yes, Sanders was running a different set of routes than Gabe proved he could run. It has to be taken into account that the Chiefs had a plan for Diggs, Knox, and Beasley, and to them Davis was this guy way down on the depth chart they didn't have to worry about - sort of like the Patriots 2nd game where they had a great plan for Diggs and for Knox and McKenzie spanked them.

I think someone ought to tell Reid and Mahomes their Superbowl Window is closed, because they both appear to have their heads stuck out the window as they drive along, with their ears flapping, enjoying the breeze. The Saints hired Brees in for the big bucks and won a superbowl, and have been a very successful team for a long time though they never went back. I thought they were "gone" in 2014-2016, which brings up a point - it wasn't just Brees at that point, they had spent the big bucks on a bunch of players who didn't deliver as promised (Jairus who?). So I think when a team's window closes, it's not just on the QB's contract, it's the rest of the roster.

Yes, see upthread. Giants have announced it "we got our guy" No.

I think it's way too simplistic to say Mike Shula "stunk with the NY Giants with Eli Manning". Did you watch any of their games? That was the Ghost of Eli Manning, playing behind a sieve of an OL, with WR who weren't helping him out a bit. 2019 was Danny Jones rookie year, but his best season by several metrics - best TD/INT (24 TD to 12 INTs), enough yards to win football games, best passer rating. But that's far from the only thing on Shula's resume, both good and bad.

Somebody knows. For one thing, Erik Turner's comment on Ty Dunne/Isaiah McKenzie's show:

So I think it's worth commenting on this a bit more. I don't think anyone would argue that Isaiah McKenzie played well and was "That Guy" for us in the 2nd Patriots game where we were missing Cole and Davis to Covid and Sanders was strapping himself up and playing on a bum knee. The question is: does that represent his true capabilities as a slot receiver, or does it represent the fact that the Patriots were suddenly facing the Bills #5 WR in targets, yards, and receptions? Because we've seen guys have one great game (Duke Williams) or some great receptions (Jake Kumerow), then when there's video out there to study, they're easily neutralized. The Patriots were playing man, and McKenzie was simply able to run away from it. Beasley thrives in zone coverage, and excels at knowing where the gaps will be and being able to sit in them. This isn't just me saying this, Taron Johnson was interviewed earlier this season and said that practicing against Beasley was a "cheat code" to make him a better nickel corner. Asked about McKenzie, he said "his thing is mainly speed". Now speed is to be feared. Speed kills. But speed doesn't make McKenzie able to do what Beasley does, to be a zone-beater who can almost always get open in the slot unless you double him. Speed can open different plays though - I thought it was interesting that the Bills started using McKenzie on some of the outside runs they'd tried with Brieda. Here's the problem: once again, McKenzie kind of washed out as a KR/PR - he actually fumbled on the first KR vs KC, though it went out of bounds; he muffed or misjudged enough PR that he lost that job. And this was his third chance. McKenzie has shown flashes, but I don't know that they've flashed enough that the Bills are ready to say "Move along now Beas, we're giving your job to McKenzie"

How can I say this? I respect Sal Capaccio, but I think this is Radicchio. How would any assistant credibly believe they are being interviewed for an OC position without the HC hired and in the loop (part of the interview process)? Likewise, if it were to come out as true that the Giants were negotiating a contract with one guy before interviewing their OC candidates, that would not be "in good faith". Also the chap who claimed they were already hard at work drafting Dorsey's contract is now walking it back: That's a bit of a step back from: which is a substantial step back from: So we've gone from "Daboll getting his wish to hire Dorsey as OC. Dorsey currently in negotiations with Giants" to "Bills want to retain Dorsey, Giants need big payday to swipe him" to "Oh yeah, Giants need to interview two minority candidates from outside the organization before they can hire Dorsey, so Hold the Presses"

Pass/run was 55/45 this season and 59/41 in 2020 so why would you want the shift?