Hapless Bills Fan

Tre improved his take-away ability during his time in Buffalo, to the point where after he got 6 in 2019, he's been getting fewer because QB don't risk him. Tre had 2 INT each in 3 of his 4 college seasons, along with 7,6,7 and 14 PD. It's not like Elam has had goose-egg in the take-away department in college. He had 2, 2, and 1 INT and 4, 11, and 5 PD. So he's done it in college some. It's not just the speed vs. speed in coverage. People were all "why are we giving Kelce and Hill a free release off the line?" in the KC playoff game. In part, it's because Wallace and Jackson, while admirable zone corners, are not guys who can get physical on the line *and recover if they lose*, IMO. They just don't have the quickness for that.

You're right that a backup with significant starting experience is a reasonable add. But some posters have been talking as though he counts as a significant *improvement* to the OL this year, should he have to start either at swing tackle or at guard. He's 31 and has been in the league since 2013. Usually when a guy has been in the league that long, his technique is pretty well engrained in muscle memory and "he is who he is". Occasionally a guy will improve. Maybe that's more possible on OL than other positions, I dunno. The question was "help me understand the Quessenberry love". Instructing me that Beane isn't sitting there saying "Hapless Bills Fan didn't like this signing" doesn't address the question. Strangely enough, I didn't believe that he was. And my overarching question isn't "who's available at this point", it's "Did Beane do enough to improve our OL from something he referred to post-season as "a good starting point". Clearly they addressed the line in the way they thought best at this point. They addressed the line in the way they thought best prior to the 2018 season, leaving McDermott saying plaintively during the season "I thought at least we'd be able to run the ball" and Beane after the season saying "I could have done more" "I should have done more." So the question some are asking (myself included) is: "does the way they addressed the line, actually count as an improvement?" It's not "who is left at this point?" it's "were there better linemen they could have acquired earlier in FA or at a point where they were drafting?" Saffold is an upgrade on Williams in the run game - when he's on the field. Saffold may be a significant downgrade in the passing game, and we're a passing team. Maybe that's something Kromer thinks he can fix, I dunno. as has been noted elsewhere, Saffold missed 2 games and played less than 60% of the snaps in 2 others. Overall he played 4 out of 5 snaps in the 15 games he played. So who is the upgrade who will play 1 in 5 snaps? Maybe our S&C staff will help him, or maybe his shoulders are suffering the ravages of 11 seasons and he is who he is right now. Basically your answer to my question seems to be "there's no reason to believe Quessenberry is an improvement to the OL, especially for our Fastball, the passing game". Quessenberry, Mancz, and Tenuta along with the UDFA are all "treading water", replacements for JAGs we cut (not lost - cut). That's my answer. I think he's potentially improvement in the run game. But we're a passing team.

I hope he's not gone at the first cut down, but Tanner Owen's gonna get my vote! My guess is that Williams wants to wait until this week and see if someone will give him a better-than-vet-minimum longer-than-1 yr deal

Can you (or anyone else) help me understand the Quessenberry love? Thanks

I'm unclear on what this sentence means. Are you asking whether Hamlin and Johnson are better backup safety prospects than Lee, Griffin, and McCloud?

Lots of good stuff in there. Bean hanging up on Licht during the #7 pick because Licht was asking for both #1s. Schoen freaking out. Beane waits 90 s then calls back This is with the guy they want as the Franchise QB in question. Yeah, Schoen is right, Beane is friendly but he's got that "killer" gene

Holy Guacamole!

He can run, but Will he?

I believe AJ Green re-upped with the Angry Birds (Cardinals) in mid-April

So I don't think it's correct we don't know how much cap space our rookies will take up. Spotrac has it listed on https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/ Scroll down to 2022 Projected Draft Pool Cap and look at the "top 51" for now: $4.7M Then scroll up and observe that the top 3 picks will displace 3 players from the top 51. Subtract their cap hit and add back their signing bonuses, giving $2.6M Therefore the cap space our rookies will take up is $4.7M - $2.6M = $2.1M According to Spotrac then, we have about $5.2M of top-51 cap space after the $2.1M top-51 impact to sign rookies is subtracted. It should be noted that right now, Poyer is taking up the Bills 6th highest cap hit at $10.8M, and that any extension worked out with him could potentially lower this.

All of this. Going into last season, I thought Darryl Williams had locked the RT spot down for several years (that's why he was extended) I thought Feliciano played pretty well coming off shoulder surgery off-season, then a torn pec, and would be even better with full off-season to train. I didn't quite buy the "Ford will be one of our best 5 because he's played injured so much and now he's healthy" schtick, but Boettger was healthy and had played well in limited action so I figured between the two, we should be OK. Then, we spent a 3rd and a 5th round draft pick on OL and added a couple lower-tier FA who had shown they could play in Forrest Lamp and Jamil Douglas My concern was run blocking, but I thought perhaps Daboll would come up with something and also go back to the pin-and-pull blocking where Morse excelled in 2019 and previously. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but this season to date, we've clearly done less. Fewer draft resources; Saffold is an upgrade to Williams in the run game and (as of the last 2 years) a downgrade in the critical "best ability is Availability" game. It just doesn't seem like Beane has put his resources where his own mouth is in referencing the OL at the end of last season as "a good starting point". The only thing I will say is Pilttsburgh opener, Daboll showed his plan was essentially a spread offense with 4 or 5 WR and using Sanders and Beasley in concert so teams couldn't bracket both of them. And right off the bat Keith Butler laid down a pretty good template for how to give that a miserable day. So that plan coupled with a style of run game we simply couldn't support did the OL no favors, and he was PAINFULLY slow to adapt. So the Big Unknown is whether the OC Brain Trust Triumverate of Dorsey, Brady, and Kromer will pull smoothly in harness and do better. It's possible. But yeah, I'm very uneasy about whether Beane has given Kromer enough to work with.

I think Josh Allen's arm is bigger than Matt Araiza's leg It was reported at the time, that Bojo wanted a short contract (I dunno about the "more money", maybe that too - having the longest average punt kinda went to his head), because his GF wanted to live in LA so he didn't want to be tied to Buffalo for more than a year. He did wind up working for less than Haack, but only after he drew no interest as a FA for a prolonged time. He wound up accepting a contract to compete with Johnny Hekker in LA (one of the better punters in the league, how did he think that would work out?) and got traded to the frozen Tundra of GB. Wonder how his GF liked them apples

Don't think I'm omitting anything I'm not an NFL GM. But in his post-season presser, a man named "Beane" who is referred to our OL with Bates as "a starting place". Not a finished product; not "good to go"; "A Starting Place." 1) Bates has started 4 games. He left the first one when he was injured after 10 snaps. We have yet to see how he'll hold up as a starter over a full season What's the plan if he can't hold up? 2) Bates played well at LG. Now we want him to play RG. Some guys can move over seamlessly, some can't. 3) And again - the guy who is an NFL GM referred to the OL that ended the season as "a starting place". So why is staying at "the starting place" good? 1) We can't sidestep the fact that while he played in 15 games last year, he played less than 60% of the snaps in 4 of them. That would imply that in 6 of 17 games, he was not "full go" - that's 35% of the games. What's the plan to compensate for that? Maybe our S&C staff will get him right. Maybe they won't. 2) Saffold's pro bowl was for his prowess in run blocking. Saffold is undoubtedly an upgrade over Williams for run blocking, but we're a passing team. And again - this is not new writing for me, I've detailed all this before. I believe I heard somewhere that Quessenberry gave up a league leading number of sacks. I don't think we should ignore that. Mancz is a career journeyman. He had a chance to start for Houston his 2nd season, and couldn't hang on to the job. He can play at C and both G positions, just not well enough to have been able to hold down a starting position. Basically, Feliciano lite. He's a good fill-in, but probably not good enough to anchor a spot for 35% of the season. I agree, Boettger would represent solid OG depth (and maybe contend as a starter) if he hadn't torn his Achilles. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts..... Again - when the Bills GM refers to our line as "a starting place", then returns the same line with one substitution for a guy who is arguably better at one aspect of his job, but worse at the aspect that is most important to the Bills (pass blocking) - and worse at availability.....it's not a situation that raises confidence in the "investors" "I'm a chicken wing! I'm a ***** chicken wing!" says "no"

Ha. Well, to continue your analogy - every prospectus has some small print saying "past performance does not guarantee future results". Of course it doesn't, but nonetheless, investors use past results of various kinds to predict what the future performance of that investment may be. So what are the Bills past investment results on the OL under Beane? 2018: horrible. Beane said after the season, he was cap limited but he could have done more, he should have done more 2019: significant improvement under Bobby Johnson. our run game improved and Josh had more time to throw, most games. but we improved from a low bar to a meh bar IMHO. Traded Wyatt Teller just before the season. 2020: stronger pass pro with Darryl Williams solidifying the RT position, but Trouble in the Run Game teepee with zone blocking 2021: run game follies continued. we re-instituted more gap and pin and pull plays in the run game. Bobby Johnson left after the season. FA additions such as Forrest Lamp and Jamil Douglas did not prove out. Extensive OL remodeling during the season to attempt to find a lineup that worked. Bottom line, over the last 4 years IMO the management, the talent acquisition, and the results on OL have all been suspect. So while you may be right that the Bills believe in the "horses they have", past performance leads one to question the basis for that believe and its soundness

Wow that's a highlight. Haven't seen a catch like that since Beasley's leaping 1-handed sideline haul in the 2020 AZ game we lost on the Hxxx Mxxxxx

I give all respect to Micah Hyde. There he stood, open field, last man between Derrick Henry and a long gain ending in a TD. He squared him up, got set, and executed a textbook tackle which Henry promptly ran over. Hyde hung on for grim life and slowed Henry to the point where other defenders could swarm him. But can you imagine, being a 6' 197 lb guy or even a 6' 223 guy like Milano, and having to tackle Henry 20, 23, 27 times a game? As long as the NFL still has backs like Henry and Taylor, I think we still have a need for a thumper

OMG Beane and McDermotts faces in the interview when he hauls out that notebook. "don'tsmiledon'tsmiledon'tsmile" Exactly 😅

Well, if Cook gets run down from behind after gaining 7 yac instead of the abysmal leage-cellar 4.2 yac we had this past season or even the 6 yac Singletary managed on 50 targets, I'll be OK with him being run down from behind. Bonus if he drops less than 10% of his targets.

So let me get this straight. The positions I mentioned the Bills as being "set" at were QB and WR1 and LT. Should one conclude you believe we should have drafted a LT or a QB at the bottom of the 1st, while we have Josh Allen signed for $258M through 2028 and Dawkins signed for 3 more years with $12M dead cap, simply because those are the positions which get resigned easy-peasy for >$20M? C'mon man. I'm pretty sure that if a pass rusher or WR the Bills liked with a 1st round grade had fallen to them, they would have pulled the trigger, but we were at the spot in the first round where the guy drafted ahead of us projects as an inside LB, and the next DE has "underdeveloped pass rush" as a tag, then folks were drafting IOL and safety. Question: what exactly do you believe the Bills should have done with Pick 25 in the 1st round of the 2022 NFL draft?

Just a note that whether he develops as a press CB2, remains to be determined, but it is highly doubtful whether the Bills drafted Kaiir Elam to be a "Levi Wallace". From https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kaiir-elam/3200454c-4155-0002-a198-92eda6859fa9 Strengths Desired size, length and strength for press man. Well-balanced with ability to crowd and stuff the release. Patient feet rarely fall for release fakes. Able to swivel hips and pursue with fluidity. Mirrors shifting routes with basketball agility. Rarely bites on the cheese against double moves. Allows receiver to close the cushion for him in Cover 3 and quarters coverage. Squeezes deep sideline routes with physicality. Contested catches are typically tilted in his favor. Solid transition quickness to plant and drive on the throw. Some improvement in his tackling on 2021 tape. Richard Sherman (FWIW) commented that the physical traits are there and the gaps in his game are (in Sherman's opinion of course) eminently correctable with coaching.

Just a little note that I'm not sure how you argue that the Bills have only addressed #1. To #2: We played Hill and Kelce more physically in the regular season KC game (which we won). The reason they didn't have people trying to jam Hill and Kelce at the LOS was because Jackson and Wallace, while decent zone corners, simply don't have the physical traits to be able to jam guys like Hill and Kelce at the LOS then recover if they don't get 'er done. We let Wallace walk and drafted Kaiir Elam in the 1st, arguably because we were seeking a second CB who can do that. #3, yeah, that's what we're talking about here. Has Beane tried to improve, maybe a little bit but IMHO not enough. The main strategy seems to be, to count on Kromer to make the existing personnel better. Maybe he'll get 'er done. Second strategy, count on our trainers and S&C staff to breathe new life into Saffold. Maybe they'll get that done too. I dunno, I don't feel comfortable that "hope" is a "plan" and that seems to be too close to hoping it'll work. Please bear in mind that size and height don't make someone a 3TDT vs a 1TDT. When he was here, BigJ9797 at 6'6", 341 lbs was most definitely a 3TDT. And Harrison Phillips at 6'3", 307 was definitely a 1TDT as was Star Lotulelei at 6'2", 310. It has to do with mindset and with technique, AFAIK.

The flaw in that argument is that Beane says repeatedly that it all starts up front, on both sides of the ball, and that's how he builds the team. He says that we have to protect Josh Allen, and part of that is the run game (which he acknowledges was limited by the OL more than the backs last year). So we're not talking "every position". We're talking key positions, as defined by Brandon "it all starts up front" "we've got to protect Josh Allen" "that's how I build the team" Beane. Then he cheaps out on OL and ignores it in the draft, while spending widely on DL and using high draft picks on D. I'm not making a specific argument "shoulda drafted this guy or that guy". But since other teams are finding value in the draft and FA - I find it a bit hard to believe that Beane couldn't do more - not at EVERY position, but specifically on OL. You know, up front - where Beane says he prioritizes building the team. Having a $258M QB and then having your major effort to improve an OL you describe as "a starting place" be: 1) a 33 year old G who only played 87% and 82% of the snaps and 15 games the last 2 seasons - which translates to only missing 2 games last season, but playing less than 60% of the snaps in 4 more games, signed for 1 year at $6.2M 2) resigning an RFA with 4 games of experience for $2.3M cap this year 3) signing 4 more OLmen to vet min or near vet min deals - one coming back from an Achilles tear, and one named Bobby Hart 4) drafting an OT with Pick 31 in the 6th round - an OT described on NFL.com as "a potential undrafted free agent and could struggle to compete at the pro level" does not compute with actually walking the walk Beane talks. C'mon, man, don't try to defend that with the "can't have all pros at every position" schtick. We're not talking "every position" here, we're talking the guys charged with keeping Josh Allen clean and giving him time to throw. I have no quarrel with using our 1st round pick on a CB, or even on trading up to do so. My issue is I find it hard to believe we were unable to find anyone who might improve our IOL, or any OLmen at all, prior to the bottom of the 6th round.

BadOl, as far as contract values, this "a first should be a guy who you would have to pay $20M+ aav is ....let's just say, untenable for a team drafting late in the 1st round. Reference: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/ The players who are getting AAV are QB, WR, OLB/Edge/the occasional DT (pass rushers), a few LT, and 2 CB (Denzel Ward and Jalen Ramsey) And in fact, we see that primarily, those are the postions drafted at the top of the 1st round. But the top guys go quickly, and there aren't enough of them to fall to the bottom of the first - which is why we start seeing safeties, IOL, ILB and DTs drafted there. So 1) your principle would argue that if a team is set at QB, WR1, and LT......the only players they should draft in the first round are potential pass rushers and perhaps WR or CB - whether or not we feel there is value at those positions when we draft in the 1st. 2) even so, as a CB, if Kaiir Elam proves out to his potential ceiling, he will fall into that "guys you pay $20M AAV" category. By the way, I don't think they "got tunnel vision because Levi Wallace was wearing the wrong color undies". Like Harrison Phillips, I don't think they really wanted Wallace back here enough to prioritize signing him at the very reasonable deal he got. They might have matched, if they had nothing going on - or they might not. I think they wanted an upgrade, meaning a CB who can potentially play Man without getting pwn'd, and who can play physical at the LOS but be able to recover if he doesn't win. Levi Wallace was Not That Guy. Kaiir Elam, based on scouting, might become That Guy.

I know you're just being sarcastic, but I'm sure if you drank a few beers with Brandon Beane he'd acknowledge that in fact, he could have done more to improve the OL. Norwell missed 3.5 games on IR in 2020, but played 100% of the snaps otherwise. In 2021, he played 99% of the snaps (missed 6 snaps in 1 game). He will turn 31 mid-season. Saffold missed 4 games (2 each in 2020 and 2021) but only played 87% and 82% of the snaps otherwise. Last season, there were only 8 games where he played >95% of the snaps. There were 4 games where he played <60% of the snaps. That implies to me that he was playing hurt, and probably not as effective as he could have been even when playing. Saffold will be 34. So by some metrics, yes, Norwell would be a better choice. The G TB drafted with the #25 2nd round pick they traded with us, was graded out as "good starter with the ability to make an impact sooner rather than later" and 2-3 round pick by Zierlein, so not much of a reach. He was all-MAC in 2021. (The G MINN drafted 2 picks later, was graded as a potential 5th round pick) I believe there were also some well-regarded OL drafted early in the 3rd. Of course, everyone sensible recognizes that even the highest evaluated prospects in the first 3 rounds only have about a 30% "hit rate" to become successful NFL starters. But as the truism suggests, you never hit the shots you don't take.

Our offense played lights-out during the post-season. At times during the season, our OL appears to have been a strong contributing factor to several losses. They couldn't manage an effective run game with zone blocking, leading to Daboll saying "why try?" in the gameplan for some opponents, leading to those opponents just teeing off against the pass with a bunch of stunts that would have been highly vulnerable to an effective rush attack.