Hapless Bills Fan

Not doubting you but where does this info come from? I mean if Josh is throwing a ball that the DL can jump up and get, that's setting up an artificial practice situation if they refrain, not sure that's a good idea Edit: from Marcel L-J?

In case the link doesn't take you there, they start talking to Mongo at about 2:41.

Sweeney He gets it done, but he just looks so freakin' awkward to me for some reason. Whoa! Would love to be a fly on the wall for all that

I don't want to argue with your memory, but my memory features Whaley extolling EJ at various PR events for fans; Whaley trading up to draft a #1 WR in the hope of making EJ better (along the lines of the Dalton to Green connection); Whaley being seen arguing with Marrone just before Orton was brought in - allegedly about the feasibility of starting EJ; Whaley saying publicly that the next head coach (after Marrone) should commit to developing EJ as the Bills QB. Now maybe he had a skull implant prompting him to all these words and actions. Or maybe the notion that Whaley was against drafting EJ and considered him a 3rd or 4th round pick is revisionist.

I completely agree with you that the transition to 3-4 was stupid but that's kind of an aside. Transitioning to different defenses no question held the Bills back from any improvement. Continuity matters (as long as those you continue aren't *****ups...) but I digress. It's worth noticing that Williams went to his first probowl - unusual recognition for a player on a 4-12 team - in 2010, playing nose tackle under George Edwards. I believe that predates all-22 availability - certainly predates my subscription to same... but I have memories of reading a breakdown by Brian Galliford at Buffalo Rumblings I think, on how he was being used, which was actually not as a conventional nose tackle IIRC...but there it stands, he was listed as a NT and he went to the pro-bowl that year. What evidence do we have that he's right? And what does his "honest criticism" consist of? I'm kind of "done" with the notion that anyone can contend anything and it is somehow "up to" the rest of us to prove them wrong. If you feel Marino has honest criticism, fair enough - how about YOU lay out his arguments and maybe a link or something? As far as I'm concerned if he wants to sling crap (via you) calling Harry ""just a guy" and "below average depth" without the above, it's "open season" to sling crap right back.

Well. That's a key point, isn't it? If EJ wasn't Whaley's pick - and Whaley evaluated EJ as a 3rd or 4th round pick - why didn't Whaley cut his losses and move on from EJ sooner, instead of publicly claiming whoever they hired as HC should commit to developing EJ? Observation: Whaley bleated about the Bills being in "QB purgatory" where they were drafting too low to nail a top QB in the draft but didn't have the QB they needed to compete at a higher level. Meanwhile Beane came in and systematically figured out how to move in the draft to get where he felt we needed to be to draft their desired QB. The Ravens used scouting and coordinated player personnel/scheme/draft choice to identify a talent they could draft late in the 1st and put the right scheme and personnel around them. Two different strategies for getting the job done, neither of which involved sitting there whinging about "QB purgatory" and pointing fingers in other directions. I don't know what Whaley is trying to achieve, but if he's lobbying for a new NFL job he's sawing off the branch behind himself. How did he do that? He brought in Orton, who outplayed EJ and put him on the bench. Then when Orton retired (which it appears the Bills/Marrone did not want), he brought in Tyrod Taylor, who again outplayed EJ and kept him on the bench.

That would be me. I was one of these people "build the OL first", having lived through St Louis ruining Sam Bradford by putting him behind an OL sieve. I don't think it did Sam Darnold any favors in NYC either. And of course, going in the 'QB first' direction wasn't good for Joe Burrow in Cleveland last season. Of course I agree the best place to find a QB is in the 1st round, preferably high in the 1st round. So there are arguments to be made on both sides. Frankly, I think the Bills got a bit lucky with Josh Allen in that his athleticism and his competitive spirit were both strong enough to surmount working with a crap OL his first season. I think it did teach him some bad habits it took until partway through his second season to coach out. I also think the Bills felt they had a stronger OL in place for their rookie QB than they did. It's notable that they drafted Dawkins as a franchise T and extended Wood as their C in 2017. They may have felt Glenn-Cog-Wood-RG-Dawkins was a solid OL to put a rookie behind - they had drafted Teller in 2018, so maybe they weren't as wedded to Ducasse as it seemed. Losing both Wood and 'Cog that year was a blow. But then of course, Dawkins did pretty well at LT and Beane decided Glenn was a chip he could use to move up for QB. Dawkins-Ducasse-Bodine-Miller-Mills makes me shudder just typing it. Beane has admitted he didn't do enough at OL in 2018.

It was pretty amazing how far they got last year with the QB situation they had. I don't know what their future at QB may be, but I'm not sure either Kyle Allen or Taylor Heinicke can be that thing.

Meh, I think that kind of thing could easily be avoided by just requiring all the players to wear masks when interacting with the fans. But the NFL may have been foot-dragging on defining exactly what kind of fan interactions and what kind of crowd control would be required.

I don't watch a lot of college football (it's mostly on cable these days and we don't have cable). But that matches what I recall seeing and reading. How does Joe Marino distinguish himself in his Bills coverage from being "just a guy" and "below average depth"?

I acknowledge I don't watch a lot of college football, but I thought Phillips lined up over center a fair bit in college. To the guy you were responding to, I don't think there was any "coach needed someone to sub for Star. Harrison was the guy who stood out the most as a viable replacement when Star needed to rest". Rotation on the DL has always been a key aspect of how McD wants the DL to function. I think they drafted Phillips intending him to play 1T and rotate with Star. They may have had other players (like Peko) that they wanted to develop there who didn't pan out. I believe the Bills actually lined Harry up over center at times this past season. Pretty sure I saw a piece by ?maybe Cover1 ?maybe on Buffalo Rumblings? breaking this down - I'll have a look for it. What I saw when I was trying to figure out who was playing where on the Bills DL last year is that the Bills were lining guys up all the heck over. I didn't get too far - it was very tough to breakdown. Interestingly I seem to recall - and I could be wrong here - that when the Bills were running a 3-4 D with Kyle Williams at the nose tackle position (with some success) someone observed they were actually not lining him up as a nose tackle but more as a 3T - not to cast doubt on your explanation of 1TDT vs nose tackle but to make the point that there's nuance even how even a position like nose tackle is actually played.

I doubt "hiding the vaccine issue" is in the top 20 of reasons. I read the NFL memo about away training camps and it was basically the team had to file for permission including a bunch of studies showing that the facilities (including dorms and meeting rooms) would comply with air handling and filtration requirements as well as support the current covid protocols for distancing etc. There would also be issues around protocols for managing fan contact with players, I believe the NFLPA is concerned with that. I think the Bills sent a crew to SJF to look at those issues and threw their hands up saying "too hard".

Oh, wow, I hadn't realized that grass was an issue. I don't know why the NFLPA doesn't insist on more of a push to return more playing fields to grass. I'm sad because with my kid at school in central NY I had planned to attend training camp for the first time last year. Now I guess I never can. But I do agree the Bills should make whatever training camp decision is best for the team, not best for fan interaction. I think they can come up with other ways to support fan interaction over time.

I've been looking for this info - can you point me at it? What teams were still holding off-site training camps pre-covid, and what teams are doing so this year?

The last year at SJF, there were 9 practices open to fans. They're talking about maybe (?) 3? here, and it's in the stadium where the fans are more separated from the field and the goings-on

Is this what you're talking about? https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/07/aaron-rodgers-packers-compromise-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw It's unclear to me whether King has actual inside gouge on B'lo's "difficult conversations" or whether he's going by the pre-OTA twitting on Twitter by Rachel Bush/Cole Beasley etc. From King's previous column: If I were guessing, I would guess that team is probably the Seahawks. They had strong infection-control protocols in the league last year, with 0 players out with Covid all season (!!!!). Russ Wilson hosted a television special "Roll Up Your Sleeves" in April, so they have at least some player leadership that is positive about vaccination. But I don't know who Peter King's strongest contacts are.

Beane made the point several times that where players or the team overall are concerned for relaxed protocols, "we don't know what the thresholds are" "we don't know what the thresholds will be". This appears to confirm my contention that the 30 of 32 teams refers to the 90% vaccinated standard for Tier 1 and Tier 2 staff, and has nothing to do with how many players are vaccinated on different teams or a threshold for player vaccination in order to relax protocols, because the NFL has not yet released that information to the teams: I welcome links, quotes, etc correcting or refuting this. I think the percentages on the team are more likely to match the areas where the players are from (S. Florida, Texas, Louisiana, Nebraska, etc.)

Parrino pointed out that Darryl Williams appears to be in a drill on that video: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2021/06/bills-rt-daryl-williams-arrives-at-otas-watch.html

And that's a fair assessment. I'm just tired of people looking at the Chief's OL overhaul and saying "oh noes, they massively improved at every position". I understand and appreciate that's not what you're saying. We agree that the Chiefs appear to have massively upgraded their OL and didn't lose substantial talent on the offensive side of the ball. My questions are on defense. Editing for focus: Most people would say if you're counting on a 4th round draft pick at DE to play, it could be more than slightly worse. Taco Charleton wasn't beating out "below average" Kpassagnon to start before he broke his leg, and now there's a question of how fast Charlton will get back to full form. Kpassagnon was splitting reps with Okafor and rookie Michael Danna. They may like Danna. But can we agree that at best, it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade? Again, if you're expecting a 2nd round rookie to come in and start...it's no sure thing that he can do the job, much less be an upgrade. Can we agree that at best it's a questionmark, and could be a downgrade? So typically teams that are happy with the play of former 1st round picks don't decline their option then flip them to another team for the swap of a 6th and 7th round pick. Hughes thing was inavailability. ACL injury ended his rookie season, neck injury ended 2019 and limited 2020. Maybe Hughes will stay healthy and play. Or maybe he won't. Deandre Baker saw defensive snaps in 1 game last year - week 17 - and broke his femur. If they're counting on a guy whose draft team flipped him for a late-round pick exchange or a guy who played half a game with the scrubs and became the 2nd NFL player to break his femur, can we agree that at best it's a questionmark and could be a downgrade? You seem to have missed the Chiefs adding DT Jarren Reed from Seattle as a FA, which I think is a significant move for their interior pass rush. (edit: no I see you mentioned him later on). I think the point is, when there are question marks at 3 important defensive positions, there are reasonable questions as to whether the team stayed the same, much less improved. Well, maybe one person should have said that the Chiefs lost the SB because of their defense. They gave up 3 TD for a score of 21-6 at the half, 28-9 just afterwards, with no help from KC turnovers at that point. Now part of it was, the zebras weren't letting KC get away with their "sticky" coverage. But part of it was they just struggled to cover a team with a good run D and TE that kept them out of dime. Now obviously if KC was scoring 5 or 6 TD while giving up 4, that's one way to handle it, so the offense had a big contribution. But when KC was last - last - in the league at red zone defense, and when they just gave up a bunch of points on no turnovers in the Superbowl, that seems to me like a pretty strong argument for saying their defense needed work, and it's not entirely clear to me that it got it. The link I included above had Spagnuolo fingering "mental mistakes" for the red zone problems. Maybe he's right. Maybe they'll just focus or practice or whatever and they'll be fierce and fearsome. But it's certainly a questionmark. It may be, but I look at it this way. Because of Mahomes unique talent, their OL just had to be "good enough". I'm not sure how much better "good to great" on OL will give KC's offense. Their OL got the job done last season until the Superbowl, when they had 3 guys playing out of position and just got pwn'd. So it's a perfectly reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs OL rebuild has them on the "plus" side in the talent overall. It's also a reasonable take to feel that the Chiefs may have some gaps and questionmarks defensively that may counter-balance their improvement at OL, and to wonder how much impact going from (say) good to great will really have on their offensive game. Agree. As far as CB2, the Bills appear to like Dane Jackson. If you're counting two former 1st round picks returning from injuries and a DE returning from a broken leg as just "slightly worse" or "might be an upgrade", I don't know why you wouldn't be positive about the Bills CB2 being a young player who saw most of the snaps in 3 games and looked very good. No, CB2 is not the same - we had Norman, who we let walk, so CB2 went from Wallace/Norman to Wallace/Jackson with Wildgoose as a ...wild card. The other question besides pass rush is whether Star Lotulelei and a healthier Harrison Phillips will allow Oliver/Butler to return to the 1T and make a difference to the interior pass rush. The Bills evidently think the answer is "yes", but there are questions there, of course. Not the same. The same players were on the roster - on IR. If you're thinking pencilled-in OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-Mongo-Williams, they were never all on the field together last season. In addition, the Bills moved on from Winters and added Lamp (Chargers) and Douglas (Tenn) at guard, and drafted Anderson, to give themselves more choices at guard. It's not signing Joe Thuney, but if the Bills decided that the OL was a lot of the run game issue, it's not 1) the same OL 2) without options Fair take. The Bills have a number of places where, as far as whether and how much they improved, we're definitely in "time will tell" land. Pass rush - interior DL - CB. Whether the OL was the problem with the run game and whether we can put the 5 "best guys" on the field at the same time (or whether an option will work out) and whether that will fix it. I don't disagree at all that KC looks like it did a great job overhauling its OL, my point is that they aren't without their own significant areas of "time will tell" -land in addition to the question of whether the OL that looks great on paper will look great on the field.

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So we did, but that wasn't in 2012 when we signed Mario Williams and people were talking about "best Dline in football" It seems Dave Wannstache wasn't the guy to put a strong D together. The D improved the following year when Pettine took over and improved more under Schwartz. And it wasn't just linebackers - Pettine at the time tended to run a gambling-type D that enabled sacks by bringing a lot of pressure, but at the cost of run D sometimes. IMO.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/vic-carucci-dawson-knox-determined-to-be-that-weapon-bills-want-at-tight-end/article_d06f8270-c51f-11eb-998c-1bacfd579b18.html "I have wheat, looking for sheep..." Oh, and he and Hollister? They're friends