Hapless Bills Fan

I agree that it's an unusual use of the term "strawman" I think the point that may be trying to be made is we don't have 70,000 individual cases. The people making decisions have to play the probabilities, tempered by practical considerations of logistics. And the evidence favors that the overall odds are lower to sit next to an infected person if said person has been vaccinated. Despite what is endlessly reiterated on certain media outlets, that's what the data support. Would it be better to just test everyone with a high-sensitivity test 24-48 hrs before the game? Almost certainly! But it's a moot point - the logistics of that worked out for 7,000 people but would be awful for 70,000 people. Is it likely that you have substantial immunity and are less likely to be re-infected as a person recently recovered? Yes. Sp the policy leaves you out. Policies designed for ~100k people will inevitably be unfair to some, like our Canadian friend who posted upthread about his situation. It's unfortunate, but I find it curious that you jump from something that may be personally unfair to you to saying that the policy "isn't about health" at all. You seem very certain of that, yet I'm pretty sure the people who made the policy had the advice of public health experts and epidemiologists.

I'm guessing because a photograph of a vaccine card is pretty easy to photoshop, but I really don't know

No but I'm about to dig into it because coming from out of state and want to have my card with me virtually in an acceptable form Will update if I figure it out I may just pay for CLEAR - I don't live in a state that has its own digital registry

Ask and you Shall Receive:

This is a legit issue and question. What I know about the working details of Canadian gov't could be written on a nickel and lost, but if you can't get an answer about how to prove your vaccination status for travel out of the Public Health Canada or whatever it's called, can your elected representative help you? (Ours often do, if a voter calls with a problem). We have several working members of the media on this board such as @john wawrow (who I believe may be Canadian?), and I'm wondering if we can collect legit questions and if they could help get some answers. I'm suspecting at this point if one called a Ticket Agent you'd get the voicemail equivalent of a Blank Look Questions I've seen so far: 1) what proof of vaccination is acceptable from citizens of another country and how would they obtain it? 2) is a vaccination regime including vaccines approved in other countries acceptable, and if so which? A number of US entities that require vaccinations (eg universities), accept all vaccines authorized by WHO. Others say "No, FDA authorized only" 3) is proof of covid infection followed by 1 shot of an mRNA acceptable (since this is acceptable to the NFL)? Someone posted this link, https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/the-5-ways-to-get-a-digital-record-of-your-covid-19-vaccination which has suggestions about using a private digital app if you aren't a US citizen. I wonder if one of these would work:

LOL everyone's an epidemiologist and a clinical pathologist I don't know that. Would other measures (Covid tests) be about as effective or more effective? Perhaps, but the logistics of testing 70,000 people even with a rapid antigen test are formidable, and those rapid antigen tests still have a pretty low sensitivity (false negative rate) Me, I think what woulda been a "win" is if everyone wore their masks last Sunday when and where they were supposed to, and then that woulda remained the "airborne disease infection control plan" going forward. But That Ship has Sailed

I should undoubtedly remove this, but IMHO it sets an awesome new standard in Talking Trash about our next opponent So I just can't

No you're good, this is the kind of query we need this thread for. Poloncarz tweeted about it, so I think it's a good assumption Erie County. But someone also suggested this from the State may be behind it: https://dol.ny.gov/ny-hero-act

Dude, Give It a Rest. https://www.buffalobills.com/stadium/health-and-safety Now perhaps it will come out that "No Exceptions" means "well, OK, if you know someone who knows someone and the moon is over the formahaut and the stars align correctly". But for right now, for purposes of this discussion, "No Exceptions" means "No Exceptions".

It is afternoon right now. We're most dangerous when frustrated before we've had the second morning cuppa Joe

Have you tried their assistance feature? https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=6rhs9AB5EE2M64Dowcge52kVjlOhKQ1Fm_dnC-fVXb5UQ1RIWlZLS0NEV0kwS0Y4N01aSko2QzlDSiQlQCN0PWcu

Will try to go through and clean up, but right now this thing is a mess We got people playing immunologist, people making threats after calling others sheep, on and on

Nothing about that so far. Back in Da Day (1920s-30s) when one needed to show proof of smallpox vaccination to get into a theatre for entertainment, the court rulings IIRC were that not being able to attend a specific show at that specific theater was not an infringement on your rights and liberty, so that sort of accommodation may not apply here.

For those like me who had no idea what CLEAR is: https://www.clearme.com/support/digital-vaccine-card @plenzmd1 might be a solution for you? I have not vetted it for privacy concerns etc. Like I said in the first thread, another solution might be a waterproof travel wallet to be worn around the neck.

It's easier to check a card at the entrance everyone must pass through, than to enforce 70,000 people's behavior throughout a 3-4 hr block of time.

Woah, that's coming up fast

Agree

Another thread about the actual changes, one thread should suffice.

I think this is a real concern

@plenzmd1, not as far as I know. I hope there's a solution that doesn't involve carrying the physical card because I Share Your Pain on concern for losing it. My only possibly positive idea is to get a travel wallet -either a neck or a waist or belt wallet - that could hold the vaccine card. This kind of a thing: https://www.amazon.com/Freegrace-Waterproof-Pouch-Waist-Shoulder/dp/B07DH5G834/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=waterproof+neck+wallet&qid=1631646689&sr=8-16. If you find one that's comfy enough and fits under your shirt it's pretty loss-proof and you just have to remember to pull it out. The waterproof part is key though, Ask Me How I Know. They better hire extra workers to get people into the stadium, because if folks thought the lines were long before.....

I'm going to respond to this once and then any posts carrying this torch will vanish. @Chandler#81 quipped that "Hapless will be diagnosed with a heart condition this season, but it's a misdiagnosis, it's only broken". He's right. I live in MO and have relatives living in areas with very low % vaccination. I have spent literally weeks of my life at this point talking to relatives and friends who don't wish to be vaccinated (and a teeny DM with a couple Bills players actually). And when I say talking, I mean actually talking, not lecturing or admonishing. I watch what they send me to watch. I read what they send me to read. I tell them what I know about it, since this is part of "My Lane" and I can legitimately claim some expertise. I can say from that experience, that people who don't want to get vaccinated are neither idiots nor choosing ignorance. I believe they are mistaken, but misinformation about the vaccine is absolutely RAMPANT. A good bit of it is very carefully couched to look scientifically legit and wrapped in common argument fallacies. You have to really have some expertise in both science and in understanding argument strategies to unpack it. I'm responding to this because I feel the continuing holier-than-thou drumbeat of some vaccine supporters shaming unvaccinated folks, calling them "ignorant" and so forth is misguided. It's just as unhelpful as the opposite trend to shame/attack those who do get vaccinated in some communities. So please reconsider, and refrain.

Good question and fair question. Vaccinated players and staff are still required to fill out an extensive symptom questionnaire every morning, report any symptoms, and get tested immediately if they have any symptoms. If they're exposed as a close contact they get tested for 5 days. New CDC data from LA and HCW studies ~25% of infections with Delta are asymptomatic (lower % than original strain) Using this to correcting the NFL data vaccinated players/staff 5.5x less likely to be infected (Which happens to be consistent with aforementioned CDC data ) If there were an injection that made an NFL player 5x less likely to injure ligaments in his knee and miss playing time, they'd be lining up out the door for it. Anyone who wants to debate this, PPP and many other venues online At Your Service. Thanks.

Workers must either be vaccinated OR test weekly The daily tests Beasley and etc get would cover that last. My guess is that when the dust settles, stadium attendence will be "either vaccinated or (-) covid test within 48 hrs, which seems like a reasonable accommodation to me

NFL data from preseason: 7x fewer vaccinated than unvaccinated positive tests in players/staff, no intra-facility spread.

What part of "humans acting like humans" is involved in actively harassing people who are complying with a stated policy? If you don't like the policy, go B word at the people who enacted it, Fair, that's how Democracy should work.