Hapless Bills Fan

This is a truly bad take. If Allen absolutely couldn't hit the "broad side of a barn", then Beane et al would have been fools to draft him. They aren't fools, and "he was bad for 2 years" is a take about as shallow as a seasonal stream in Missouri August. The problem wasn't that he had a "very lengthy history" of "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn", it was that he was inconsistent in his accuracy, and had a history of refusing to take the checkdown over the "no risk it, no biscuit" deep shot. In his own words to Pat McAfee: "Mama didn't raise no b****" It's fair for you to believe that other QBs are better. When you state that opinion about a young, talented QB like Herbert who started out with a solid cast around him and has put up some good stats and shown good traits, it's also fair for people to go look at your previous takes about which QBs were busts and failures and which QBs were better, and judge your beliefs accordingly. Herbert may become better than Allen, Herbert may not become better than Allen. Time will tell.

You keep using use that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Certainly. But we're also entitled to look back at your posts from 17 months ago or a year ago, and ask "how did that work out?" when evaluating your posts in the present.

I did a fair search, explained exactly what I did, and turned up a bunch of posts that went beyond being critical. It's "on you" to refute and show that you've given the man his propers, not to whinge about "cherry picking", but OK. I'll search on your screenname and "Josh" looking for that "plenty of praise". Know what I found between May 1 and 34 minutes ago? One post. Here: One post, to whit: I think there's someone who's not being honest here, and it isn't me. In for the stuff I quoted, you went way beyond criticism. You said he was a bust, would be replaced by Fromm, you'd be "willing to bet anything" he would be terrible last year, every meaningful statistic showed he was going to fail, etc etc etc. Even Sam Momson had the balls to say he was wrong, but you switched to "the coaching" "the rest of the cast matters" team as a whole is dominant, etc. Bottom line: Looking for that "plenty of praise" from you, honest searches including the one you told me to make, Not finding it. 2ndary point: Your posting history comparing other QB to Allen casts considerable doubt on your evaluation of Herbert as better than Allen. Again, no question that Herbert is a fine young QB. He is.

I don't know that it's "unpopular". I agree that poor attendance (even if the product on the field is crap and not doing much to help) opens the door to relocation and butts in seats are required. But it seemed you were arguing that Stay at Home Sally and Sofa Sam have 0 credibility to express an opinion on fan behavior and the fans with fannies in seats are the only credible voices because they're the only ones supporting the team. My point is that isn't the case. Again, no question. 40% of current revenue is significant. But you could flip the script too. If the network TV contracts, NFL contracts, and licensing revenue all declined for some reason, that would also be the difference between a profit and a loss. Around the Kaep kneeling/teams not coming out and standing for the national anthe stuff last year, a lot of Sofa Sams were saying "I'm so Done with this league, I'm not gonna watch it on TV or buy Gamepass or Sunday Ticket etc etc. If that had been true and the TV revenue had dropped instead of a new huge contract being inked, equal or greater trouble.

What did McD say?

Yeah, I was never a Rams fan but I lived in St Louis during the "Greatest Show on Turf" days. In 1999, Rams won the SB. In 2001, went to the SB again. Beasley's antics kind of remind me of this (it's not a direct analogy, Work with Me here). 2001, Kurt Warner was a pro-bowl, 1st team all-pro, #1 passing offense, #1 offense on points. Warner threw 22 Ints that year, but with 37 TDs it didn't seem to matter. 2002, First 3 games, Warner throws 1 TD to 7 INTs and fumbles twice, then gets injured in the 4th game. Comes back for to start game 11, throws 2 TD to 3 INT and 6 fumbles in 2 games before going out again and finally onto IR. Rams were 0 and 6 in those games. Meanwhile his wife Brenda is all over the social media of the day, meaning radio and newspaper, saying that the Rams have benched Warner because he's an avowed Christian who professes his Christian faith. Seriously. In St Louis! We may not be the Buckle of the Bible Belt here, but we're at least the creased part of the Belt that crosses the sweaty small of the guy's back. You don't Dis on Christian religion and survive very long as a public figure in these parts, you just don't. But according to Brenda Warner, yanking Kurt had nothing to do with the fact that Warner was a walking ball dispenser to the opposition while Marc Bulgar threw 14 TD to 6 picks in 7 games where the Rams went 6-1. Next season, game 1: Warner throws 34 completions for 342 yds, but also 1 TD, 1 pick, and fumbles six (6) times (3 lost). Rams bench his ass for Bulgar, and go 12-3. Again, Brenda Warner is all over radio and newspaper stirring the ***** that Warner was benched because the Rams don't like his professed Christian faith!!!! No ma'am, that's NOT the reason. I don't doubt for a minute that Beasley is being booed or heckled by some fans, though I think the overwhelming majority are calling out "BEAS!" as they did in 2019. In any population of 70,000, there are always going to be a couple percent who are jerkwads. But just like Warner being benched and his wife claiming it's because he's Christian (not because of turnovers), Beasley is claiming the crap he's getting is about his personal choice to not be vaccinated, and it's NOT. That's deflection! It's about his decision to make it his public "cause celebre'. " As Marc Cuban said, "the examples you give as the basis for why you make your choice are questionable". Beasley says "The fact that I need to explain any reason for my own choice is the problem." but he doesn't need to explain himself!!!!! It was his choice to do so! The other players didn't explain. No one else on the team who may not have chosen to be vaccinated is being questioned or booed or heckled at all. No one. Not Poyer, not Davis, not Lotulelei, not Milano, not Ferguson, not Allen. No one. Their private medical decisions are being 100% respected, reporters and fans are 100% respecting their request to not answer questions about vaccination status. If I'm mistaken here, Call it. I haven't heard or seen it at all since the very start of camp. BEASLEY is the reason his private medical choice is being questioned - because HE voluntarily put out his reasons and explanations that go against accepted principles of epidemiology and virology and, I'm quite sure, the careful explanations he received as part of the team's educational materials about the need to vaccinate to reduce (not eliminate) risk of transmission to more vulnerable people. When I was 8 years old and got vaccinated for rubella as part of its clinical trial, I and my classmates DID NOT NEED to be vaccinated against Rubella. The original Hilleman vaccine was only about 80-90% effective, and Rubella in children is normally very mild. We got vaccinated to protect those who were vulnerable - women who might become pregnant and their babies, immunocompromised classmates and siblings of classmates. 8 year olds understood the epidemiological point that if everyone gets on board with reducing transmission by vaccination, the vaccine doesn't need to be perfectly protective on an individual basis! We all know that if there were a treatment to prevent knee injuries that wasn't 100%, you could still get injured, but it would reduce the risk of injury 7x or 5x or even 3x and shorten the severity and duration of the injury if injured despite it, Beasley would be first in line for it and wouldn't be citing a couple of dissenting voices over the scientific consensus view. Hell, if it even just made it 7 or 5 or 3x less likely his teammates would get injured, he'd probably be a good teammate and line up for it even if he thought he had Admantium Knees himself!

He made the comment after the trade here that the best thing he did was to hand his social media over to his PR team and step away from it. Said the same thing during and after his first 2 seasons here in various interviews. Now evidently he thinks it doesn't matter? or is no longer the best thing? I didn't know his SM history in Dallas, but it's clearly a distraction to the team at this point. I count 30 stories linked in the newsfeed here for today, and fully 1 in 5 (20%) are about Beasley.

Don't forget to give props to trading away Tannehill to Tennesee for a 4th rounder and a 6th/7th swap, only to see Tannehill go to the AFCCG and win "Comeback Player of the Year" in 2019. Meanwhile spending a 2019 2nd round and 2020 5th for 'right Josh' Rosen then trying to tank with Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB. I know those aren't drafts, exactly, but the trades involved draft picks and no one could say they got good value there. They didn't draft him, but they did spend a 2nd round+ to obtain him so I think he ought to be considered.

Herbert looked very good last year and looks better this year. Herbert is a fine young QB. The Dolphins are looking dumber by the day to draft Tua over Herbert. As far as your posting history, let's check it out. I searched on your screenname and "Allen". Should bring up that "plenty of praise", Right? Stand and Deliver. OH WAIT! IT DOESN'T! You were "ecstatic" we drafted Jake Fromm last May because you thought Allen was a bust and expected Fromm to replace him. Let's have a look: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224668-senior-bowl-executive-director-jim-nagy-on-jake-fromm/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-6520011 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224668-senior-bowl-executive-director-jim-nagy-on-jake-fromm/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-6519720 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224668-senior-bowl-executive-director-jim-nagy-on-jake-fromm/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-6518295 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/224668-senior-bowl-executive-director-jim-nagy-on-jake-fromm/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-6519720 Again predicting Fromm >Allen: You're clearly not just citing stats. You're repeatedly stating your personal belief that Allen will look terrible, is going to fail, is not as good of a passer by Fromm, etc etc. It had nothing whatsoever to do with his surrounding cast his rookie season and even in 2019 where we had no #1 WR and a TE who dropped 1 of 5 passes thrown at him. Now let's look for that "plenty of praise" during and after Allen had a phenomenal, MVP-like season last year. After the Bills win over Las Vegas we learned that the outcome of a team game is actually not all on the QB but involves the quality of the cast around him (may we discuss Allen's cast his rookie season and that in 2019 he had a rookie TE who dropped 20% ,no #1 WR, and a "meh" run game?): https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/227379-qb-derek-carr-sick-of-losing-after-bills-loss/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-6767009 https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/227379-qb-derek-carr-sick-of-losing-after-bills-loss/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-6767032 Or it could be the coach. I guess Losman, Manuel, and Darnold would look just like Allen if they had better coaching. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/227393-what-happens-if-you-flip-flop-darnold-and-allen/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-6767086 Allen wasn't looking good, it was all on him, he was a bust, gonna fail, be replaced by Fromm. Allen looking good, now the supporting cast and coaching matter (they do, point is you weren't considering that when assessing his rookie and sophomore play) And that's it. Not cherry picking here. Searching on your name, and Allen, that's ALL I can find between May 2020 and now. Just those two quotes above. So....the Verdict is In after searching your posting history. 1) As "plenty of praise" that's total Weak Sauce. The praise is nowhere near as loud and reiterated as the disrespect was. 2) If you've been giving Allen "plenty of praise", you ain't done it using his name (Allen) and here 3) Your ability to compare QB is called into question by your assessment that Fromm would replace bust Allen @Lieutenant Aldo Raine, would you kindly provide Mr Twist with that Apology form? Or don't bother...I think we've addressed his claim adequately.

Valid. All our media were flapping and fluttering when Harrison Phillips was a healthy scratch against KC and the Jets (trade predicted), then even more so when he played in NE then sat for 2 weeks. But his snaps steadily increased after that point. McDermott indicated post-season that they felt Phillips wasn't where he needed to be coming back from injury and he needed more time to "get right" It's possible they're done with Ford. Something like 1 in 2 to 1 in 3 draft picks work out, even in the high rounds. It's also possible that, coming back from off season surgery, they feel he isn't where he needs to be and needs more work to "get right". We don't know, and McDermott sure ain't gonna tell us.

Perhaps there are seats available for the seminar and we can learn.

"Day to Day" for Poyer, Johnson, and Milano is fabulous, but I hope they don't pull one of those "I'm playing unless you knock me out" things where Milano was playing a game where he couldn't raise his arm to make a tackle. Healthy Milano >> Klein but a gameplan designed for Klein better than a hampered Milano and trying to plug Klein in for Milano's usual role. Also Big News on the OL. Does that mean if Feliciano is healthy, he still takes a seat and Boettger still starts?

He did very well in the CFL in 2018 before coming to the Bills. Most receiving yards in the league in 2018 and "top performer" honors for two months. All the work he put in and experience he gained in the NFL should only help him there. I think the running start WR get in the CFL, helps him.

Wait, what happened to Davis?

I can "get" the notion that the fans who are paying money to sit in the seats and support the team in person, pay for the right to express themselves as they choose. Otherwise I think your analogy breaks down on several fronts. For example, the Bills revenue, like other NFL teams, depends upon local and national revenue streams. The Packers, which are the only team where the finances are public, earns roughly 60% (and rising rapidly) of their revenue from national streams (TV deals, NFL video, NFL licensing deals) and 40% from local revenue including tickets, concessions, and local merchandising. Obviously under this model, TV viewers and consumers of NFL merchandise and video products are also tangibly supporting the team. To use your analogy, they are more like the registered voter who mails in their ballot. Fans at the game can express their opinion by booing, and fans not at the game can express their opinions that "Beer Bong Heroes" who choose to boo and heckle players for their expressed beliefs outside of football are "weak sticks". If you're paying all that money to go to a game, why would you make that choice to heckle and be nasty instead of basking in the positive, while there is positive to be basked in? I get the point that you're there in person with the right to express your opinion pro or con, but those at home also get their opinion.

As usual, great writeup Virgil! I have no points of disagreement. I think Allen was concerned about the weather impact on deep balls. DIdn't he sail the INT and sail the next pass after that early in the game?

Pretty visuals can be engaging, but can sometimes hide important points. When I read this, I am asking myself "how are they defining pressured, how are they defining "kept clean, and how many plays fall into each bin for each QB?" It kind of matters. Also wondering what the data set is (eg this season, last season, last 2 seasons etc.)

OK, thanks for explaining that POV. I didn't take Beasley calling out the entire fan base as "lying" but I can see that interpretation. I didn't see Beasley complaining about being harassed by fans, that was Feliciano: On the other hand, it's a fair cop that's vague, and could range from someone walking by the car and shouting "your dad should get vaccinated" as they pass, or screaming profanities and curses to that effect while getting in the road, blocking the path. The first is kinda milquetoast, the latter is way out of line IMO.

@The Firebaugh Kid, permit me to introduce you to @BADOLBILZ. @BADOLBILZ, may I present to you @The Firebaugh Kid? C'mon man. 70% of the country does no such thing. For one thing, the NFL would be in alt if 70% of the country cared enough about NFL football to know who Cole Beasley is, even. There is no evidence Beasley is being "phased out" of the offense. He had a couple games in 2019 and in 2020 where he only played 50% of the snaps and only had 2 targets. It's defense-specific, who they decide to try to take away. That's why Beasley had 0 receptions on 2 targets against the Ravens but 7 for 7 against the Colts and 7 of 9 against the Chiefs.

Oh, c'mon Man, must we go there? He's a married guy, father of 4 kids, see pictures of his wife and kids it's obvious he's a loving husband and dad. He's been a good teammate and mentor to Josh, has supported him publicly saying it shouldn't be all on Josh and privately, being seen hugging a discouraged Josh about to face the media after the 2019 Ravens loss. Guy played his ass off on a broken leg in the playoffs, being willing to sacrifice for the team is a sign of maturity. If he wants his decision to be private and unquestioned, he's handling himself ass-backwards (I was gonna say bass-ackwards but I gotta respect our Bass) But we all probably have blind spots.

This thread is like a swan....gliding serenely across the surface of a lake....while underneath the water its little feet are paddling like Hell

Aside a bit, but I think it would be terrible to get involved with someone who never lies, not even a little bit. Can you imagine? "Do these pants make my butt look fat?" "Yes dear, they do" I think the term "liar" is getting thrown around a bit loosely. A lot of people make intentional statements "I'm getting off social media" "I'm going to lose weight" "I quit smoking" and then for one or another reason they don't or can't. I don't think that puts them in the same class as someone who, say, lies under oath in court or lies about being vaccinated etc etc.

I can go with that first. I wouldn't boo, myself, and I don't like it, but far be it fro m me to question the "fan card" of someone who feels differently. Confronting the player in his car while his kids and wife are with him is IMHO taking it too far.

Exactly. Everyone else on the team who calls it a "personal decision" or a "private matter" has, in fact, kept it private and personal. They aren't on Twitter repeatedly going on about their beliefs, including incorrect beliefs that some people are experiencing as problems to obtaining or providing high quality medical care. As a parent being confronted with your kids in the car and being hot about it is not being a "baby". Protecting your "babies" is 100% right-on as a parent, IMO. I agree with @SectionC3, leave the kids and the family out of it - that's way over the line.

So, the natural conclusion is that some people are frustrated and angry, not at Beasely as a player, but at the misinformed views he is publicly and repeatedly expressing. I wouldn't boo him at a game myself because I'm at a football game and he's ***** awesome at football, but while I don't GAF if Beasley would prefer to get tested every single day vs. get vaccinated, I can completely understand people being frustrated and angry at the misinformation being expressed Over. and Over.