Hapless Bills Fan

On the arbitration issue, even Gunnerbill agrees that arbitration/the NFL process to appeal it would not change a thing: I think it's time to explain exactly why you think Goodell can't logically defend prohibiting the next team from playing Watson. I've explained exactly how I think that would work, several times now, and you and Gunner are not addressing this.

Looks like for those watching commercial broadcast, it's "either or not both" on the KC game vs Ravens game I am unabashedly rooting for Cincy in this game. Seems clear we need someone to hand the Ravens a loss The head, however, says that Harbaugh and the Poebirds are likely to prevail Cincy does have the 9th ranked defense at present, but I think the Ravens run over the Bengals lackadasical OL and confuse and bemuse Burrows. Still, Any Given Sunday... Discuss!

What is the rooting interest for Bills fans? The Titans beat us so I would like to see the Chiefs whup their butts On the other hand, hard for me to root for the Chiefs Neither seem to have much of a defense this season Titans have not had a passing game, but with both Julio Jones AND AJ Brown to defend (if they're playing) that could change Discuss!

What and who ya got? Gonna start a separate thread for KC at Tenn and Cincy at Bal per interest expressed in poll If this gets unwieldy we can start a separate "Late Games" thread

Change for the sake of change is NOT a good notion. You want to see progress in preseason and practice before you take him for a test-drive when the QB isn't wearing a red shirt. We can lose any of the next 4 games if we take them lightly

I think we would have had to follow our kid around constantly forbidding her from doing things we consider unsafe without supervision: using the bandsaw and table saw and lathe, climbing out her bedroom window or upstairs bathroom window onto the porch roof, climbing the 3 story pine tree next to the house, using a blowtorch to make creme brulee' Come to think of it, I feel some regret that our kid lived such a circumscribed, supervised life but considering the list there perhaps it kind of needed to be

Put your pre-teen child "in charge" for the day.... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/17/we-put-our-child-in-charge-for-a-day-it-was-both-terrifying-and-freeing?utm_source=pocket-newtab Apparently there are still limits: But even so, would you have done this?

Keep thinking. If the Bills thought Doyle was a better player than the 8 OL who are active on gameday, he'd be active. He's a LOOOOOOONG way from challenging the franchise LT - even the franchise LT who is not playing at franchise LT level at present The official depth chart at LT is Dawkins-Brown The unofficial depth chart at LT is probably Dawkins-Brown-Bates-Feliciano-Harrison Phillips 'cuz why th not?-Doyle The difference between what we did with Brown, and what you propose, is that in preseason, Brown flashed at both LT and RT, enough that the Bills felt comfortable going into gameday with him as the backup swing. Doyle showed he's got a development curve ahead of him.

that appears to be @GunnerBill’s position- that legally it would be tenuous to do so

I agree with you but then there was the baseball stuff

Kumerow had 19 snaps vs the Titans. McKenzie had 13 snaps vs. the Titans. If our defense could have stopped the Titans, they would have had more. Just because you don't count ST snaps, doesn't mean they don't count or that our coaches don't consider them It was a problem a couple of times vs. the Titans and has been a problem in a couple of other games where we didn't have good success sustaining a drive. There were times vs. the Titans when Moss had so much freakin' green around him he could have planted a Christmas tree farm.

Didn't see this up-thread. Mike Florio talks about a potential trade for Watson by the Dolphins and lays it out (for those who don't know, Florio has a law degree from WVU, entered the bar, and practiced as a litigator for almost a decade before making a career change to sportswriting) https://dolphinstalk.com/2021/10/21/mike-florio-talks-about-dolphins-possibly-trading-for-watson-this-week/ 1:25 in: Myles Simmons: "If Watson does get traded, does this mean you think he's going to be able to play this year? You don't think that the Commisioner would step in and say we're going to put you on the exempt list?" Mike Florio: "We Don't know." "We reported back in September that the NFL has not decided what to do about DeShaun Watson because it doesn't need to make a decision because the Texans are already putting him on paid leave. So the NFL would have to move forward.... here's the reality. Personal conduct policy, paid leave, ...All these things are a PR tool for the NFL. So the NFL will ultimately do whatever it thinks it needs to do to advance its PR interests. And this WFT stuff, and all the criticism the league is taking for that...you could say "they don't want any more heat in the Hot Kitchen, they're not going to let DeShaun Watson on the field. The other side, oh, we'd much rather be criticized for letting DeShaun Watson play, maybe they'll leave us alone on the WFT Investigation. I don't know which way it goes. But it's all a High Level PR Game for the NFL. It's not about Legalities, It's not about Right and Wrong, it's about PR. How much grief will we take, how aggressive will it be, how deserved will it be from the media and from the fans, if we let this guy play with 22 civil lawsuits pending alleging sexual assault and sexual misconduct during massage therapy sessions and 10 criminal complains that have yet to be resolved. Look, if I'm the Dolphins, I'm assuming there's a pretty damned good chance the commissioner's going to say that he can't play." (he goes on to talk about whether that would still help the Dolphins) So there you have it. At least one US trained and formerly practicing lawyer lays it out there pretty bluntly - it's about PR, it's not about legalities (YIKES!) But he doesn't seem to have any concerns that legalities would PREVENT the NFL from utilizing the Commissioner's Exempt List for any reason at this point.

See above. I agree with you that he can't say "he wasn't exemptable in Houston but he is now, Just Because". But he doesn't have to. He isn't limited by "material change of evidence" stemming from the legal investigation. The NFL can roll its own, that's my point. Purely because he's been traded, sure, I can see your point there. But again - Goodell is not limited to material change of evidence from the legal proceding. He can come up with some new evidence, just like the NFL did in the Josh Brown and Ray Rice cases - AFTER there was a public outcry. "I am shocked, SHOCKED I tell you by this new evidence which we strangely were totally unable to obtain and peruse previously"

I doubt he would make that argument. As I've said elsewhere, the NFL is conducting its own investigation on its own timeline. All it has to do is assert that its investigation either uncovered new pertinent information that led to it taking action, coincidentally just after Watson was traded - or that it completed its initial phase and the results indicate taking that action (coincidentally just after he was traded). I think Watson and the Dolphins would have to appeal to a court of law, the arbitration is essentially what the CBA agreed to with regard to the NFL's chosen panel/Goodell acting. But that's just my opinion.

Well, I'm not a US attorney nor an expert on American employment law. I acknowledge that this is far more your lane than mine. But typically when someone of lesser knowledge on a topic disagrees with someone who has greater, it's worth asking "why?" When I read through something like this about the "deflategate" ruling, that bolded above is not what I take from it: https://www.greenberglawoffice.com/deflategate/ So I don't think the Deflategate ruling is generally held by American law to have limited the NFL's authority to decide what and when conduct is "detrimental" to the NFL. This may also be of interest: https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/201523/arbitrator-confirms-nfls-enormous-disciplinary-power-with-slight-check The new CBA may have limited Goodell in that there now has to be a panel of arbitrators (I think - I can't find too much about this) and if he rules, he can no longer arbitrate the appeal of his own ruling. But none of that would prevent him from deciding that conduct is "detrimental" to the Shield, or limit him to "new legal evidence" or anything of the sort.

That's basically my take on it. Like I said before, the league's Personal Conduct Policy and the Commissioner's Exempt List are the 2000 pound Grizzly Bear. My take is they mean what the NFL says they mean, when the NFL says they mean it. They were deliberately written to be vague and to not be coupled to legal proceedings. It wouldn't even surprise me if there is a trade and the trade partner has the intention to play Watson and the NFL says nothing unless there's then a loud public outcry. Whereupon the NFL then says "oh, wait, we just evaluated an additional 5 interviews with the accusers and Watson goes on the Exempt List right now, immediately!" And sure the Dolphins and Watson can fight that in court. Maybe they win, maybe they don't, maybe it grinds on for a couple months and serves as a hella distraction.

Not your fault at all, but it ticks me off when one media dude speculates in public, and then 3-4 others regurgitate the speculation as though it's some sort of definitive news. Shame on you Thad Brown and Bradley Gelber!

https://theathletic.com/2905519/2021/10/21/how-jaguars-dl-dawuane-smoot-delivered-his-own-daughter/?source=spotrac&pc=spotrac40off2 Then they called 911: Mom and baby reportedly doing well. If Dawuane was still a bit jetlagged having just flown back from London, I bet that snapped him out of it quickly though!

OK, Not Sarcasm then. I could see cutting Brieda Kumerow is taking 65% of the ST snaps and seems to be one of the reasons they felt comfortable moving on from Bam Johnson, I don't see him becoming inactive in favor of Patterson.

What boggles my mind (a bit) is that last year, I thought they got acceptable LG play from Ike Boettger. Now possibly he was seeing better play from Dawkins last season that "covered up" his deficiencies But I thought he played decently in the game he started against Houston...where the Bills rushed for 199 yds and 2 TDs, 148 from backs So I wonder what they're seeing or not seeing from him that they don't take a look - unless Dawkins mentals are still not right from Covid, and Feliciano is helping him process or something? I think the Bills notion was that they could do without an upgrade at guard because Ford and Feliciano would have resurgences at guard with a full off season to train, then Forrest Lamp would provide a backup plan. Unfortunately it looks as though neither Plan A nor Plan B worked out So could Boettger/Bates provide Plan C, or could the Bills make a move? IMHO while I'd love to see the Bills pull the trigger and trade for Norwell...I don't see the motivation of a team like Jax with a new QB to add to his woes by downgrading their line.

That's ... sarcasm, isn't it? Who do we cut?

This. As the article points out "The Washington Football Team and the NFL enjoy special privileges under our antitrust laws,” Krishnamoorthi told Keim. “We thought it was important to get to the bottom of what’s going on in the NFL, in regards to the Washington Football Team in the way they handled their employees."

Incorrect. The NFL has already begun an investigation into Watson. https://theclemsoninsider.com/2021/03/18/nfl-opens-investigation-into-watson-allegations/ https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-investigation-into-deshaun-watson-ongoing-and-active-qb-eligible-to-particip https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/08/13/the-problems-with-deshaun-watson-nfl-investigation Previously, the NFL has not awaited completion of legal issues nor of their own investigation to place players on the commissioners exempt list. https://www.nfl.com/news/what-is-the-reserve-commissioner-exempt-list-0ap3000000725141 Now in this case, the NFL points to obtaining new evidence after the Sheriff's Office released information, but nothing I read in their Personal Conduct Policy or the description of the Exempt List limits them to information released by law enforcement.

Gunner, with all respect, Give It a Rest. You've repeated this multiple times now. You can state what you believe to be true, Fine, we all can. But AFAIK, you really don't know: do you have experience with litigating US employment law or deep knowledge of the prior applications of the NFL's personal conduct policy and court challenges to them? From what I can see, the NFL's personal conduct policy is deliberately broad and open-ended and the NFL has traditionally behaved like the 2 ton grizzly bear: "where does it sit?" "anywhere it wants". It does not appear to depend upon a "material change in his legal situation" or any aspect of his legal situation at all. The NFL has acted in the past in the absence of criminal charges or a legal case. All the NFL has to do is claim findings from their own internal investigation, whose timeline they essentially control. Of course the Dolphins and Watson's attorneys could legally challenge any decision by the NFL to place Watson on the exempt list or discipline him in any other way. Players and their attorneys challenge NFL disciplinary decisions regularly. Doesn't mean they win. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/18/16141526/ezekiel-elliott-suspension-appeal-explained-nfl-domestic-violence

OK so the news in that piece is that there were two broken bones, one of which didn't show up on the xray and was found during the surgery. I think that would have to be a hairline fracture, as those can be missed until about 2-3 weeks when they start to calcify. Other than that it's Garafolo's speculation, saying "3 weeks" but also "the timeline is fluid" which is just another way of saying "he plans to hit the earlier side of the 3-4 week estimate"