Hapless Bills Fan

I can't relate. We have our Christmas traditions We have our kid home from College, debating which cookies to bake and arguing about whether to put white chocolate chips in the Mocha Cookies. We get to celebrate with my Mom this year instead of being unable to bring her here for a celebration. That's huge. We have a warm, dry, relatively clean house and enough money for fits we've tried to be thoughtful about and match to each person's needs/wants It feels very special and precious to me.

I think the Bills PR Department and Josh's agents may administer that school I'm sure there's some frustration within locker rooms one way or the other, but from what I understand of locker room culture, players learn early on that they need to put their different backgrounds and opinions aside and value each other for on-field contributions. So it's kind of a foregone conclusion that hating on each other can't go on in a healthy locker room.

*Nods about the culture thing* But Beasley and all the other players (vaxxed and unvaxxed) are being asked a list of specific questions every day, and the evidence we have to date is that he is straightforward, thus likely to answer correctly. If he weren't being asked those questions, I agree that the general football culture is like Myles Garrett said about his hamstring "I'm going to go out there until I can't"

From some of the case reports, it appears that in the right circumstances (crowded, unmasked, prolonged contact as on a plane or in a party), one person infected with Omicron can infect a large number of people. So in theory, one or two unvaccinated people in the locker room could be driving the issue. And infections with Omicron appear to progress very quickly - 2 or 3 days between infections vs. 5 days to a week. A person can apparently test negative the day before, and be infecting a bunch of people by evening. We don't have good data yet on what impact vaccination may (or may not) have on transmissibility of Omicron, as far as I know. But yeah, if the NFL had data (and they can sometimes determine the index case and spread patterns in a facility) showing that the recent outbreaks stemmed from an unvaccinated person, I would have expected them to be forcing a forfeit. And I think the probabilities are against it.

No, that's not clear 'the vaccinated spread it much more'. And No, we're not going to do a general discussion of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated spread here.

Given the NFL's overall stat that 93-94% of the players are vaccinated, it's kind of hard to see unvaccinated players as driving these outbreaks. The "before the season" thing I recall was "if the games are cancelled due to an outbreak caused by unvaccinated players". I think the NFLPA had to agree to that as part of the negotiations to allow vaccination to be voluntary for players. I don't think either side agreed on/specified what would happen if an outbreak was spread in the locker room by both vaccinated and unvaccinated players.

He could if vaccinated, but 1) the indications seem to remain (from his Instagram post) that Beasley is not vaccinated - he is distinguishing between himself and "a vaccinated teammate" 2) even if he were vaccinated, Allen Stills (the NFL's CMO) has stated that 20% of the vaccinated players come back sooner than 10 days, meaning 80% don't.

Here's some more about spike ferritin nanoparticle vaccines This vaccine in particular. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8651551/ Essentially, this is a technology that allows a multi-valent vaccine to be put on a single particle. It's cool technology, and I hope it proves out in phase 2 and 3 trials. But Feigl-Ding's "all its variants" is IMO a bit misleading - it makes it sound as though this vaccine will protect against future variants. It won't. It's a cool technology that will allow a single vaccine to protect against multiple variants in the same shot, but as the article on which Feigl-Ding's tweet is based points out, https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2021/12/us-army-creates-single-vaccine-effective-against-all-covid-sars-variants/360089/ You have to put the spike protein from known, identified coronavirus strains into the shot. In theory (ahem), one could do the same thing with an adenovirus or mRNA vaccine by combining a "payload" of nucleic acids from different variants into a single vaccination. Both will have the same limitation: you need to identify a critical variant that may escape vaccine coverage and produce a vaccine that targets it

Aye, that's the Rub. IF we get in. On the other hand, if the Bills "took care of business" earlier in the year against the Titans and Jax, and perhaps took 1/2 of the Pats/Bucs, we wouldn't be having this convo. Made bed, gotta lie in it

It's possible. But if true, that would be hella bad PR for the team and the NFL if it came out.

Yeah. But apparently they are all buds. So the question is did they all get together for a meal or whatever after the game?

But again, as was pointed out up thread - I'm sure you're right, and he's right, and if there weren't NFL rules about it he'd be in there playing (probably along with Epenesa and anyone else who felt well enough to drag their ass in there). Someone said I'm sure these guys have played through colds and flu and I'm sure that's right. Look at what that would mean though. Unless he were super-careful with his mask (which he probably wouldn't be wearing if it wasn't required) and wearing a good mask, an N95 or KN95 (which he probably wouldn't wear because they're a PITA), that means he would be in the building with his infectious respiratory disease, exposing fellow players (who are all young and fit, but whose abilities are bound to be impacted if ill) but also exposing the equipment guys, the food service people, the training staff, and the coaches. Many of them are probably not young and fit, or even if they are, live with people who are not young and fit. I can not and never will understand why people see dragging your butt to work and working when ill as something to take pride in. I can understand it's something people are sometimes forced into, either because they're not replaceable and people will die if they don't (only so many cardiothoracic surgeons in the city, and when you need one, you need one NOW) - or because their cheap-ass employers don't provide paid sick leave and they won't make rent and will set off a downward spiral for their families if they don't work and get paid. But it's something these guys have to do, and should do mindfully understanding they are putting other people who may be more vulnerable at risk, not some thing to thump your chest and be proud of them for.

It happened, folks need to talk about it, it needs a thread. We just need to try to keep it on track, which Kudos to most, have been doing.

Do you really think so? I personally think that Beasley is pretty much a stand-up guy and have no reason to believe he's a liar. After the Rodgers stuff came out, I developed some admiration for Beasley; at least he had the balls to speak up about his beliefs, he's not a lying weasel using "but I'd be attacked on social media!" as an excuse and retrospectively claiming freedom fighter status like AR did. What worries me is that Day 1 of being infected is early days. Maybe he'll get through it great, and maybe the worst is waiting for him. I love Beasley too, as a football player and as a guy who seems able to be a Man and not a Weasel even if I disagree with him. But as for "critical thinking skills", in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think those words mean what you think they mean", and a bunch of the stuff he's tweeted out is just factually wrong. Beasley will not be playing in the Patriots game. He is symptomatic (by his own admission) and tested positive, and is going to be out for 10 days because he's not vaccinated. There's a significant probability he would be out for 10 days even if he were vaccinated - per the NFL's Chief Medical Officer infected, vaccinated players return more quickly and are less impacted physically, but most of them are still out for more than 10 days (the median time to a negative covid test in the general population is 20 days, which means half take longer than that) Beasley may be able to play the following week, if his symptoms continue mild and he is able to stay conditioned.

Sort of - the incident was supposedly fans yelling at his kids (in his car driving from stadium) "your dad needs to get vaccinated". Which is out of line IMO, 'cuz, bringing in the Kids really should be out of bounds to decent people (Feliciano's point, and I agree with him on that). But it's also a bit different than going nose to nose with a professional football player you encounter in a restaurant or airport concourse and calling him nasty names to his face.

More Omicron - R-values UK Chief Medical Adviser to UK Health https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2021/dec/16/omicron-r-number-covid-variant-estimated-3-5-dr-susan-hopkins-video The Lancet, top tier journal https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00559-2/fulltext

Cole's response Back in Preseason was "Oh Wait That Never Happens". I think it's a common phenomenon that people are emboldened to say crap online that they would never say to a person's face. We see a lite version of it as mods - I'm pretty damned sure that some of the crap people say to me in PMs, they wouldn't say to my face. I expect Beasley has a lot of experience of people saying horrid things to him in social media sometimes but when he meets fans in public they're all "OMG Cole Beasley! Love the way you play!", and see no reason to doubt his "Oh Wait That Never Happens".

That was a concern Beasley raised before the season. Now of course, since the league is only testing vaccinated players who self-report symptoms or who are "randomly selected", you are almost certainly correct. What the NFL had to say about that is that 1) ~80% of those infected (keep in mind this is from before the season) had reported symptoms 2) All reported close contacts, vaccinated or not, were tested daily then during the season added 3) only 20% of the vaccinated, infected players were able to test negative and return in less than 10 days - that means 80% of the vaccinated, infected players continued to test positive, albeit perhaps at a low cycle threshold, for longer than a week (the median time to not test positive after an infection is 20 days) Putting those 3 things together, math sez it's very unlikely many infected vaccinated players were passing under the radar. They would have symptoms, or they would test positive the following week. Of course, "that was then, This is Now", and you're unquestionably going to be correct now.

I would pump the brakes on a couple of these statements. When there are significant differences in the demographics of one country (SA) vs. another (US), it's not so clear we can draw on their experience, so I would say we don't quite have the full picture on the virulance (especially since people can take a couple weeks to get sick enough to wind up in hospital, and deaths lag by a further 3-4 weeks after hospitalizations. There's also this little point of the Maths of a 2x more contagious but 10x less serious disease. Bottom line up front, after 10 cycles of transmission, you can wind up with 100x more severely ill people, even if it produces severe disease in 0.1% vs 1% of infected people. I would like your statements to be correct, of course. I think it also may be time to get back to more of a Focus on Football here. Prayers for her continued good health.

You oughtta see the cutout bin

I saw “Breeland” and got excited until I realized it was a first name

With all respect, that case report involved a Christmas party at a restaurant. The participants were almost certainly not masked as eating and drinking were involved, and may have been talking loudly as one does in a crowd, and singing, as parties sometimes involve. Yes, it's extremely contagious. Yes, that was one of the case reports that got everyone's attention. No, it's not the same circumstance for transmission as in the NFL facility at present, so we can't infer the same results. The current NFL policies are that players are to be masked in the facility, are to use grab-n-go boxes and socially distance when eating, and to have virtual meetings. These are all mitigations. They may be less effective than last year, but I would still not expect "if one has it, they all have it right now" to be true

He may not have been admitted to hospital. He may have had to wait for confirmatory PCR test with O/N results to get mAb treatment, not sure on whether they administer the mAbs based on an antigen or rapid test - they do have side effects, so want to make sure it's indicated first. Feliciano may also have wanted to wait a bit and see how he felt 24 hrs later. The monoclonal antibody treatment is available to anyone considered at "high risk" for severe covid, which is a pretty broad list at this point and would include DLmen and OLmen (Dawkins and Lotulelei have said they received). https://combatcovid.hhs.gov/possible-treatment-options-covid-19 Since it needs to be given within 10 days of initial symptoms, hospitals and doctors have been trying to "get the word out" and most cities have infusion centers Again, contrary to Feliciano and Beasley's SocialMediaFest, they are not a substitute for vaccines: 1) mAbs are more expensive to produce and per unit, make the pharma company more money than vaccines 2) at current gov't contract, a covid vaccine costs 100-500x less than an anti-covid monoclonal antibody infusion 3) administration costs of vaccine much lower than monoclonal antibody treatment (90 minute IV infusion) 4) same viral mutations that make current vaccines less effective, make monoclonal antibody therapies ineffective

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https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/covid-19-list-tracker-for-players-nfl-policies/