thebandit27

Quick question--without looking, since Whaley was promoted in 2013 (since we're all pretty much in agreement that he had autonomy when Russ took over for Ralph), how many GMs have had playoff seasons? See, this is the type of knowledge I expect from someone when they want to make the comparison. If the answer is "I don't care, if you can't make the playoffs in 3 years then you aren't good enough", that's fine. I don't necessarily disagree, but when terms like "below average" get thrown around, that's when I start looking for context, since average is, by definition, a comparison to the field.

Yet another person that has decided to piggyback off of this strawman. That's not even remotely true. Just have the gumption to back up your opinion with facts. If you want to criticize the guy, do it with some sort of context. Look around the league and see what other GMs are doing; compare him to his peers. Have an idea of what the good teams do versus what is happening here. Be informed. Simply spouting off "he's below average and everyone here says he's the best all the time", as was stated in the opening line of the OP, is unfounded and unsupported, and should be challenged.

Sometimes you need to give someone a chance to show whether or not they put even a shred of thought into their posts. It's my way of knowing whether a person is simply emotional or actually has a point worth listening to...

We've seen a lot of it lately at our training facility--the explosive guys generate so much force, and the muscles need to be able to fire fast enough to cushion it. When the muscles don't contract fast enough, the forces get transferred to connective tissue and bone and injuries occur. In response, the PTs and physio docs prescribe conditioning exercises that don't solve the problem. They strengthen the muscle, but nothing is done to fix the neurological condition of the muscle firing too slowly. Many athletes (like Brandon Marshall, Dwight Freeney, and a few others) have turned to ARP Wave and other forms of electrostimulation to bridge the neurological gaps and re-establish correct firing patterns. It's amazing how quickly the pain goes away in those cases. Hoping the Bills' medical staff gets on the train soon.

Let's start at the top and see if you can support even your very first statements. Who are you comparing him to that he's "below average" and what metrics are you using? Starters drafted? Production from FAs? I think, if you're going to say that his personnel decisions are below average, you should probably have some time of reasoning (if not real, actual data) to back it up. Start there, and once we cross that bridge we can move on to you providing links to the every-day posts saying that he's one of the best GMs in the game.

Revisionist history here. Peca was 27 years old and was the captain of the team and one of their leading scorers I've often made the comparison too Crazy isn't it? Forgot about Green--was his a Jones' as well? Never thought of this before, but it's pretty close IMO

Now hang on, are we attributing his lack of production during that stretch solely to injury? I'm not sure how you determine that. Orton had a big dropoff in efficiency after the Jets game. Combine that with an uptick in rushing productivity, a nagging injury, the rookie, wall, and the general ebb and flow of a WR's production, and it's unsurprising to me. Sammy had 4 games as a rookie in which he was targeted 10 or more times...3 of them came before that stretch and one came after. It doesn't follow as a logical progression that the injury would simply go away despite him not missing any games, so why would his productivity suddenly jump as December rolled around? Obviously, we can't say for certain, but it certainly appeared that an increased effort to get him the ball was the issue...same as last year.

If you'll notice, I've said repeatedly that the bold statement is a totally reasonable take IMO. What I picked on was the statement that he hasn't been productive when healthy. He absolutely has, and it seems you agree with that. As to game-changing moments, I'd count the following: - His TD catch against Miami as a rookie that put the team ahead by 2 scores entering the 4th Q - His game-winning TD catch at the buzzer against Minnesota - The Detroit catch you mentioned - His incredible performance against Miami at home last year (168 yards despite only 11 passes being thrown by his QB--total) No question he's been nicked up, and I never denied that. The poster said that he couldn't stay on the field, which (up until this year) simply wasn't true. Again, I've only ever said that the criticisms we level against him should make sense. Durability and ROI are totally reasonable talking points IMO. Productivity and availability up to this season aren't.

I said it earlier in this thread, but what he really needs is to be treated neurologically to recondition is muscles. He won't have the training issue once the neurological side is remedied.

This is simply a dumb comment...a #2 WR would be 12th in the NFL in yards/game, 14th in TDs, and 1st in yards/target?

This stuff isn't hard to figure out. 1st in yards/target: http://overthecap.com/yards-per-target-as-a-metric/ Compare his 2015 numbers to Cooper, who made the pro bowl: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2976499/amari-cooper Virtually the same numbers in fewer games. You're claiming I cherry pick, yet here's Sammy putting up equal numbers over the whole season to a guy that made the pro bowl. Actually, he missed only 3 of 32 games coming into this year--that's fewer games missed than Beckham, Julio, and Dez in their first 2 seasons IIRC. And as is typical of those that try to marginalize his on-field performance, you have completely disregarded context. He plays in an offense that ranked 32nd in the NFL in pass attempts--that's dead last. Yet, somehow, he ranked 22nd in receiving yards, 14th in TDs, and 1st in yards/target. This is called context--it is meant to give a frame of reference so that you can consider what the raw numbers actually mean. The easiest way to state it is as follows: you would never, ever try to tell me that Blake Bortles is a better QB than Ben Roethlisberger...at least I hope not. Yet Bortles had more passing yards and more TDs than Ben last year, despite geting sacked 2.5 times more. See? The raw numbers are meaningless without context. Here's the point: you can argue that he's injury prone, and that holds water. What you can't do it claim that he's not productive when he's on the field, which is what you said originally. Clearly that's not true. Indeed they do...on a per-opportunity basis, he's as good as anyone.

I'm flattered that I'm the "stats guy". I'm happy not to cherry pick: Sammy lead the NFL in yards/target for the entire 2015 season. No big deal though, right? Why can't he do what through the whole year? Produce pro bowl numbers? Um, he did. He had what amounted to a nearly statistically identical season to Amari Cooper in 3 fewer games (with 35 fewer targets)...Cooper made the pro bowl by the way. How many wins did it translate to? Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know wins and losses were a WR stat. Since that's the case, who's the better WR: Sammy or Odell Beckham, Jr? Sammy by a significant margin, right? Or is that a total BS argument?

Again, let's level criticisms that make sense. To say that leading the NFL in yards/target, and outpacing the rest of the NFL in terms of production over the final 9 games of 2015 isn't flourishing is simply incorrect.

Those two statements, served up back-to-back, are simply astonishing. What do you consider a bust? I'd be flabbergasted if there's anyone on the football-watching planet that considers a 2nd-year player amassing over 1,000 yards and 9 TDs in 13 games "bust" status. That's without the added context that he played for the team that attempted the fewest passes in the NFL, and lead the league in yards/target. You can say that you're disappointed with his production given how much they gave up to get him, and I'd at least understand that. The bold statement, however, does not hold water in any way, shape, or form.

Hard to argue with the idea that they lacked a contingency plan in Sammy's case. At least with regard to Shaq, they had Manny Lawson and LorAx in the fold.

And then what happened?

Wait, you thought he was soft a year ago when he had over 1,000 yards and 9 TDs in 13 games & lead the NFL in yards/target on the team with the fewest passing attempts? Wonder why you were banned

He probably also needs some neurological reconditioning. When athletes have stress fractures or minor injuries that they play through (as Sammy did last year), many times the brain will alter the firing speed/sequence in the muscle groups that support the injured area to lessen the pressure on the injured area (decrease pain feedback to the brain). Even after the injury heals, the neurological compensation sticks and needs to be (for lack of a better word) re-programmed, lest the muscle group that is firing out of sequence refers pain to the multiple areas. Great article on the subject: http://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/317/Neuromuscular-Reprogramming-for-Rehab1

If you weren't excited about Donnie Yen in a Star Wars movie before, you darn well should be now.

Exactly. I'm not asking anyone to stop being themselves; I'm merely saying that if someone is way off the deep end (to either the positive or negatives side) it's wiser not to engage.

At some point in the game, Rex puts someone other that Taylor or EJ at QB just to be a smart-aleck. Oh, and we lose. NE will find a way to score 20+ points, and will play a bend-but-don't-break defense that gives up a few long drives and maybe 17 points.

Just for the record, you are often capable of making good points. When you use that term, it completely undermines any substance you might have, because it gives the appearance that anyone that disagrees with you must be shilling for the organization...and that would be a remarkably stupid position to take. It's the EXACT same approach that dilutes the arguments of the folks that immediately attack anyone that's even remotely critical of any part of the organization, which is also a remarkably stupid position to take. A note to both sides: stop leveling generalizations at what are the vast minority of posters. When 3 posters attack you for your opinion, that doesn't mean the other thousand or so on the board are with them; talk with the remaining 99% of the board and stop wasting your time with those you deem to be nonsensical, and for goodness sake, stop bringing them up in discussions that don't involve them.

The point isn't that folks were being derided for simple negativity based on any relevant facts; at the time, no prognosis was offered, so the "sky is falling" crowd had no justification. IIRC, most folks were taking the wait-and-see approach

That's not even close to accurate regarding the board. There's an extreme minority that thinks the team can do no wrong, and there's an extreme minority that believes that because the team hasn't made the playoffs in 16 years that there are literally zero positives associated with the organization. The other 90% are in between, and are quite capable of normal, rational discussion. How anyone could possibly get the notion that the majority of this board is comprised of apologists or Pollyannas is mystifying to me.

Oh sorry man...thought we hashed that one out a while back. Check your PM