JESSEFEFFER

True. I'd love to see what Chan could do with a young QB with actual tools to work with.

When stories like this come out one should ask themselves "who benefits from the spin on this?" Why claim to know the mind of Bill Polian assuming that Bill is not the source? It makes Marrone look connected and influential. It makes it seem like Marrone is sensibily leaving a badly structured organization. Say the conversation actually happened. Who benefits most from this spin? I'd say Marrone or his agent. I think agents are the source for most of these type of stories. It's all an attempt to manipulate the conversation to create more potential suitors and bigger and better deals. Hollywood gossip NFL style.

All these reports coming in are tough to keep straight. But, when I read "in line" for something I do not think "it's in place to happen." I see it as a take someone has about a circumstance. LIke Hillary is "in line" for the nomiation in 2008.

Any new HC will get a 4 year deal from the Pegulas. I do not blame Marrone for asking for a similar commitment as well. But, from what I have seen, I think the Bills can do better than him and probably will. The opt out clause made sense given the reality of the time the cantract was made. The lack of some type of offset is the part that is more troubling. It actually made it a financial slam dunk to exercise it. I liked Gailey's style. I would love for him to be the one to work with EJ. Gailey had been making chicken salad his whole career and, mixing metphors, giving him the job of making "the ball of clay" into something special is intriging to me. Too bad Nix never gave him a young talent to develop and Chan couldn't get the DC choices right. Great head coaches are often jerks. Trouble is, why suffer having a jerk at the position without evidence of greatness?

Certainly true. I was ok with benching him at the time because the pass rush pressure EJ had seen in his last two games had really rattled his mechanics and his internal play clock. I don't think he regressed so much as was exposed for not having an answer to consistent pass rush pressure. Guess what, most veteran QBs struggle in the face of consistent pressure. Joe Flacco's tQBR in week 16 vs. the Texans was lower than EJ's. I was not ok with EJ not seeing the field again for the entire 2014 season. Mostly because I do not trust Marrone to have read it correctly. He can say that Orton gave them the best chance to win all he wants but there was little evidence of that after the bye week. Fix the o-line so whoever the QB is can have a consistent run game and not have to look for "unabated" pass rushers.

And when you factor in the effects of sacks, the net yards per attempt becomes 5.88 for Orton and 5.80 for EJ.

Consider this play: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000402069/Morris-intercepts-Manuel It was EJ's last play of 2014. Every time I see a flag for a defender grabbing a jersey, I think of this. In hockey it's obstruction. In basketball it's a blocking foul. Here it's illegal contact evolving into pass interference that occurs over a 15 yard span. Robert Woods sees the ball and the defender never looks. It was the worst no call of the Bills' season, imo. What's my point? In a game where EJ is hit 18 times, 9 by Watt (2 of which were illegal) but only takes only 2 sacks and has 5 passes dropped the Bills were this no call away from having a legit red zone possession to take the lead in a game they lost by 6 points. I do not think Kyle Orton could have stood up to that pressure. We would have seen a record number of turtle maneuvers. Yeah, EJ struggled. But he was not the disaster some try to make him out to be. His rookie season production was on par with Joe Flacco's (who, ironically, had a similar game against the Texans this year.) I would like to think that being put on the shelf for the last 12 games of his 2nd season could do him some good but I do not really trust this coaching staff to make it so. If anything maybe it could change his onfield demeanor from ultra cautious to being more agressive/assertive. Top myths of EJs 2nd season. Running out-of-bounds play was a zone read option. Eric Wood was blocking down field and there was no pass to be made. He would have had to know how much he would ultimately lose vs. an inelligible receiver downfield penalty. The ball thrown to Sammy on the dig route against SD that came in at Sammy's shoe tops was tipped by Kendall Reyes who was driving Pears right into EJs lap. In the Texan's game, Sammy stumbled over a defender's legs as he made the break, with the ball already released, on the deep cross where he could only get one hand on the ball. When a defender stumbles like that in coverage, he is likely to be beat by a step or two. Why point these out? Some EJ detractors wanted to hold these as superior evidence about some perceived EJ flaws. In the court of TSW, I say these were not evidence of anything of the sort and the jury should disregard them.

Is there anything that Whaley could hold against Marrone? I don't know but how about the putrid play of the offensive line and how unsettled Marrone let it become entering the season? The refusal to start Urbik when Richardson was continually whiffing on blocks. The collapse of CJ Sillers' productivity. The inability to make any use of Mike Williams while having huge issues in the red zone. Repeatedly using the "he gives us the best chance to win" line when in most of their games there was no real difference in the ability of the offense to score points or help the defense.

EJ Manuel's 10 game rookie year production was on par with Joe Flacco's 16 game rookie season. In an interesting bit of irony, Joe Flacco might have had a worse game against the Texans this week than what EJ had against them in week 4. I was ok with benching EJ at the time because his game may have been collapsing worse than the Bills' pass protection vs. the Texans. But I am not ok with him not seeing the field for meaningful plays the rest of the year. Quite frankly, I'd find it much easier watching EJ make mistakes than Kyle. I could convince myself that EJ might learn form his. I have little confidence that this coaching staff has the juice to be developing him away from in game experience. I really hope I am wrong about that. It feels like a wasted year.

Win or lose, I'd think it's an experience better off shared. The jubilation is multiplied and I'd think the post loss let down might be mitigated. I know I am more miserable when I watch a bad loss alone. Just a thought.

Tavern on the Tracks it was. All those recommendations were spot on. I won their halftime trivia a got a T shirt, met folks from Geneseo, Clarence, Rochester and Jamestown. The Bills won and I spent less than $40 for my wife and I to eat and drink for 6+ hours. Oh yeah, and the Bills won!

Definitely a personal foul, trip on #91. In hockey they call it a slew foot.

Thanks for all the input. I can now put a plan together. As far as parking near the Tavern what area should I aim for? I tend toward the frugal side (I park at Bert's Bikes across from ECC South for $10 for the Bills' games--my wife has complained about the walk but I told her to suck it up since she was only 6 months pregnant at the time.) My wife and I are checking out the area in respect to a potential job related relocation. My thought is 1) I get to see the game with some great, like minded friends who we haven't met yet and 2) talk to other relocated WNYers about the area. Only pregame and during commercials, of course.

There's 4 or 5 from which to choose so any advice would be appreciated.

1) The offensive line has stabilized as it no longer is letting stunting lineman come through untouched and JJ Watt does not play for Green Bay. 2) There is no difference in production between Orton and Manuel in games not involving the anomolous NJ Jets, Both have a .500 kind of look to their games. EJ's 4 and 6 rookie year rookie record has the Cle and Atl games in the mix. 3) Orton has had excellent 4th quarter production which tells me he is a viable relief pitcher option if need be. 4) I'd want to see if there is anything different about EJ's approach now vs. then and that doesn't happen without playing him. 5) As a fan, I am much much tolerant of a 2nd year QB's mistakes than those of a 10 year vet. 6) Many of EJs bad, wtf plays did not seem that way under "further review." Kendall Reyes tipped that pass, Sammy stumbled in the middle of the route, there were lineman blocking down field on a designed run play that made a throw to avoid a loss a poor option, etc. So, when I am repeatedly wrong about what I saw in live action, I tend to think that criticism of EJ's play was overblown.

Watch the nose of the football rotate toward the sideline. No actual pass is ever released in such a manner. It's a maneuver intended to help maintain the grip. This is all occurring below shoulder height. No actual, pass is ever released from there unless it began as a sidearm or underhanded throw. So, JM did two things inconsistent with an actual pass but consistent with an attempt retain it. There's a whole range of motions that occur between the last, possible release point and having the ball safely returned, i.e. tucked. The rule doesn't address any of them. One could easily argue that once the nose of the ball is rotated away, it is no longer going forward as it is no longer oriented in a forward direction. That's two observable facts from the video I've seen to support the call on the field.

How to know that the ball was being tucked and not thrown? The ball is chest high, pointing toward the sideline and in his hand when it comes out! No QB releases a pass from there. He held on to it way past any realistic point of release because he was tucking it. And those two throws by RF in 2012 where he lost his grip during the forward throwing motion (first one in Cle second was a home game) and managed to propel the ball 15+ yards down field were ruled fumbles without any contact from a defender. Violation of basic Newtonian physics.

ESPN has a story up about how the NFL's court settlement with former players DOESN'T help the likes of Darryl! Yikes! NFL needs to wear that one like "skunk on a rope." http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11899196/nfl-concussion-settlement-bob-stern-objection

A story about a proud, sacrificing man who has become the victim of circumstances beyond his control and the community that wants to show him that he matters to them in his time of dispair. Wait....... I think Frank Capra has already told that story.

I donated $32 in honor of the 32 pt. deficit that DT rallied the defense to do their part to overcome. Maybe Darryl can make something of a comeback in his own life. Just thinking. Buffalo Bils fan site + Thanksgiving + explayers in need = a yearly tradition?

I made some of these points in other threads but to summarize: 1- Watt got the highest defensive grade ever from PFF for this game. 2- Two of Watt's nine hits were just above the knee and were flagged. The rest of the defenders added nine more. EJ did well to walk away from this game. 3- EJ was sacked only twice which tells me that he was very aware of the protection breakdowns. Maybe too focused on them. 4- The last pick, by a diving defender, was a blatant, gutless no call. It was not subtle nor could it have gone unnoticed. It occurred over 10-12 yards of the route and over 1-2 seconds of time. It's nothing that could be missed in the blink of an eye. It directly lead to an over throw pick and ended the game. 5- There was an over throw on a deep cross where Sammy was able to only get one outstretched hand on the ball. The torch and pitchfork crowd used this as evidence to rip EJ for poor accuracy. Sammy actually stumbled across the back legs of a defender as he made his break, after the ball had been delivered, easily costing him a step or two, imo, and a legit chance to catch what was probably a decent ball.

He has produced at similar levels to Joe Flacco and Ryan Tannehill over their first 14 games (and most every other 1st round QB with "potential.") I think he could use some controlled anger/agression in his game. Most young players are deferential to the veterans but EJ seems to be too deferential. Maybe the benching will change his emotional approach to the game. Think about his last game. Multiple drops by receivers (Sammy with 3?) JJ Watt earning the highest defensive grade that PFF has ever given even with his 2 of his 9 QB hits being illegal. Plus another 9 hits he suffered from the other Texan defenders. But only two sacks taken. Yeah, EJ looked bad. He probably was messing up on some of his drops and protection calls. It was as if it was all he could do to avoid bad plays. There was no reason to be confident behind that line, that day. I can't think of too many QBs that would have had a good game under those circumstances but the Bills were still a gutless PI nocall away from having a legit shot to win the game. He should be angry about that game.

Bengals v NO. Those with NFL Replay check out the intentional grounding no call at ~6 minutes to go in 1st quarter. An aborted flea flacker where Dalton made a throw from within the pocket that did not land within 15 or 20 yards of ANYBODY! Can't help it. This kind of crap makes me angry.

Jeff George 2.0? No thanks.

Which .500 QB to play? The 24 year old with 14 career starts or the 31 year old with 80+ starts? I am much more inclined to suffer EJ's mistakes than Kyle's because he still has a chance to learn from his. JJ Watt and the Bills' inability to pick up a line stunt knocked EJ's development of the rails. Hit 18 times but sacked only twice tells me that he was too focused on the pass protection breakdowns to make enough good plays to sustain the offense. Now is the time to see if he can back on track behind an offensive line that has gotten better but is still not good enough to protect statuesque Kyle Orton.