JESSEFEFFER

If they make that improvement in scoring, he'd be the biggest contributor to it. There'd be improvements in most all of the "individual" QB stats.

A "parody of an NFL QB prospect" simply would not be capable of performing that well in those situations. So most here would agree that he cleared that Barr too. Two areas that are 100% on him to improve upon. Ball security while on the move and under tackle and consistently giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the deep throws. We should be able to see if he improves in those areas rather easily. I think 400+ points would be a nice benchmark.

No RZ interceptions either. I think that's because when he can run it in from 20 yards and under, he doesn't feel the need to force the ball to get the TD. He is a good/great short yardage runner and he is good/great against nickel defenses with their backs turned. Those TD runs could be more TD throws but at the risk of likely more ints.

Some RBs take hits and others deliver them. I think he is more the latter. He seems to have good to great vision, get very low prior to contact, protect the ball and maintain his balance after delivering the blow, sometimes with a Kenny Davis "Texas Twister" type spin move. He should rarely be tackled for a loss. He has a leverage advantage on taller LBs and a momentum advantage (m * v) on most DBs who might choose to step into his path. Assuming they are a successful duo, and they just might be all that, I wonder what such a pair would be worth on their second contracts. If they split the work load they may be viable talents through a second contract and do generally great things for the Bills offense in all situations. So, it is considered foolish to pay a RB Todd Gurley or Zeke Elliott contracts but what does Brandon Beane pay each half of a highly effective pairing? I hope we get to see in the next few years.

How much more of a "project" is he? Josh Rosen was the consensus "most pro ready" QB of the 2018 draft. How is that project going? Is Sam Darnold closer to being a finished product? Is that project further along?

It's more than 1 per game. Closer to 2.

Since Knox and Singletary were big contributors to this my answer is no. They were so underutilized as pass catchers in their college careers that it was entirely predictable. They also showed some real after catch ability that makes you think they could be key parts of a dynamic offense.

I think it's fair to say that there is a nonzero chance Josh has a Trubisky like 3rd year. What that probability is I do not know. I think he will do everything he can to get them wins whether he improves as a passer or not. This does make a difference. It's something Josh has that many others do not.

To say that something has yet to happen is much different than saying it won't or can't. Many detractors speak that way of Josh. Most here do not. In this case I was making note that Billl used "yet" whereas earlier he suggested that an NFL team shouldn't want him to be their QB.

Josh tended to throw "past the sticks" on third down. Drops on third down that would have been a first down would be like a mini turnover. There will still be a punt but it has the same net effect as an int 40 yds downfield. I'd suspect that Josh leads this metric based on lost possessions, first downs that would have been, and how that translates into lost points. At some point during the off-season Coach McDermott mentioned needing receivers that catch the ball. I'd bet the Bills analytics staff had some similar measurements that were in Sean"s mind when he said that.

Yet. The best choice of words you have made. Any of us who are happy to have Josh as a Bill think in those terms. "Yet" implies there is more to come. Something that could be great.

It seems to be that the question was even asked. Darnold or Mayfield could have been the comparison. They are in a similar place.

I was thinking the same. Maybe he should shop for a new team to follow. One with a fully developed QB whose teams never win much. Stafford, Ryan, Rivers types who are good enough to get their coaches fired every couple of years.

There are some parallels between their 2nd year progressions. Following a close playoff loss, heading into the all important 3rd year and needing to demonstrate a higher level of QB play. I might argue that Josh having a Trubisky like 3rd year would be the worst possible outcome for the 2020 season. The Bills franchise in a return to QB purgatory puts everything else at risk. The one big difference is that Josh has shown that he can do more to help his team win while he is putting his overall game together.

As a general observation, the quality of the defenses they face in 2020 is about the same based on last year's DVOA rankings. There is a 1 for 1 swap in similar team defenses. SF for Bal, LAR for Phi, Sea for Dal, LAC for Cle, Ari for Was, Oak for Cin, Pit, Ten and Den remain. It was the D that had the easier time with last year's schedule and will face a tougher one this year. They faced a handful of QBs soon to be replaced. I think the offense needs to score 400+ points to get 10+ wins and they are primed to do just that. All this is to say that the schedule for 2020 does not seem so daunting to me and they should be the AFCE team best equipped to handle it.

Well they are paying for those picks in the sense that they are overstocked on FA signings and whatever bonuses were paid to sign them make a cap hit, although minimal by NFL standards, when they are traded. Teams with little cap space should be very reluctant to play the game that way.

I am asking you to elaborate on this lest I get the wrong idea. I read controversial, often to the point of poor outcomes as opposed to say, inspirational or influential. Sometimes those latter types can be polarizing too because they ruffle the feathers of those who do not care about their jobs as much. Using the fruit of the tree analogy, I would say Franklin must be or have been a decent dad. Polarize is to force a something or someone to go in only one direction, or to cause people to divide into two very distinct groups.

I love the enthusiasm of veteran players that know what it is to win but are leaving a less than ideal situation in their more recent past. I think they bring a good message to the younger players. If you appreciate what you have you will do what you can to protect it. Part of the culture thing.

I can see why Beane was so anxious that he was willing to proactively trade up to prevent some other team from doing so. Gipson is more of a gadget RB/WR that doesn't run between the tackles and is more WR we were told. He is pretty tall to be a between the tackles runner. The other two taken, Dillon and Vaughn, are lesser talents at this time. Moss has shown much more as an all-around player. If we had the typical war room video of the draft, I bet we would have seen lots of smiles, high fives and back slaps after pick #85 was made. Lucky indeed.

I had laughed at the video before. It's a ++++ with the play by play.

It really is (lucky? a head scratcher? puzzling?) how the Bills got him as RB#9 in the draft. I did not pay much attention to him prior to the draft because he was not a top 5 guy anywhere I looked and I wanted a top guy but he was worthy of more scrutiny. Most had him at 6. He is my kind of runner. I liked Robb Riddick in his day and James Conner coming out of Pitt. Very physical, underappreciated runners that challenge a defense in every way except with elite speed which tends not to matter very often. I think he can do more than Devin which is great if true and having the two of them should give OC Daboll more versatility with the running back position than he has ever had before. Rotor and Motor. With all the extra time on our hands, I recommend watching some of his college games. Just watch how he grinds play after play. Very few times is he stuffed. He had a 1 yard TD run (UCLA?) where he beat three tacklers in succession. He has a great spin move ala Texas Twister Kenny Davis that is a very effective ankle breaker. There are a number of PAC-12 DBs that should be happy to see him move on to the NFL.

I did not read all the posts in this thread but a search of "big nickel" came up empty. Not one post with this answer. But, we are to believe that the Bills had it assessed as enough of a priority to be willing to move up from #54 to get Dugger, a 24 year old, DII safety with a recent injury history? It makes no sense to me.

If we are to assume that the " big nickel" position was such a priority to them that they would be willing to trade up from 54 in an attempt to fill it with an athlete who is much older at 24, played a much different position and at the much inferior DII level, why wouldn't they, after havng missed out on said player, have identified other candidates for that supposedly prioritized position and taken one somewhere later in the draft? And why wasn't Santiago packed?

YouTube has plenty of his games. Not just highlights but all his plays. He adds consistent production down by down. Very few run stuffs. Keep in mind he was RB9 of the draft. I think we will like him. On this video he talks about how reads the defense post snap. Very interesting.

I can't see the ball in the video clip but the official is seen giving the tipped ball signal. The Steeler DL is celebrating with a teammate. Expecting on target throws when the ball is tipped or the QB"s arm is is hit is beyond silly. Using that as some kind of proof of anything is sloppy work. But, alas, that's how many think.