Indy Dave

Josh Reed? Our training camp All-American? The guy who has missed a month because "his knee hurts?" He's not tough. He's not productive. Our offense hasn't suffered in the slightest with the guy in street clothes resting his so-called injury. So to answer your question, no I don't care if he plays tomorrow or not. Josh has a lot to do to win me back over.

I am not defending anything the guy has done, Friday night or prior to that, but he had showed signs of maturing. His cheap shots were fewer and farther between. He also gets called for fouls and flagrant fouls that are a complete joke. See the Friday, Nov. 12 game in Philly. He didn't even foul the guy, yet was called for a flagrant foul. Cost the Pacers the game. No doubt he's paying for his mistakes in the past, butI guess that's life.

If you watched the Pacers as much as I do, you'd come to appreciate the guy. He plays with unbelievable effort in a league where many players dog it or wait until the playoffs to bring their "A" game. Most definitely, he has anger and emotional issues and he probably does need professional help. I know that if he ever gets into another game, I'll applaud the guy.

First of all, in the interview I saw, that's not what he said. You saw it in a newspaper though, so it MUST be true. More importantly, big deal. He's not the smartest guy in the world. The world needs ditch-diggers too. And 10 million dollar basketball players.

You're nuts.

Regardless of what his intent was, he didn't throw a punch while he was in the crowd. Woulda coulda shoulda aside, he didn't throw a punch while he was in the stands. He went in though, and deserves a long suspension without pay.

That is exactly right. That's what happened. The guy he punched was someone who came on to the court after Artest left the crowd and returned to the playing floor. As far as I'm concerned, fans who came on to the floor got exactly what they deserved. But Artest did go into the crowd and therefore he deserves a big suspension. But not for the whole year.

My mistake. Thought you were talking about the guy in the white shirt who really threw the first cup at Artest. Artest walked by him and went after "Waldo."

Darin, there's no way you really believe that. Every fan I saw were cowards, punching people from behind or acting all tough until they came face to face with the athletes.

I agree 100 percent and I think I mentioned that earlier in this thread. What happened between Artest and Wallace happens all the time in the NBA. What the fans did was completely over the line and unprecedented. Then the Pacer players made things worse by going into the stands.

Point taken, but the fact is if you are hired as security, you do what you can to make things secure, regardless of what you are being paid. Plain and simple. You see state troopers at the collegiate level. In the NBA, you have a bunch of rent-a-cops who don't know what they are doing and couldn't intimidate an invalid.

Security failed in two areas. One, too many of these people apparently took the job for a free shirt and a good seat at the game. Watch the tape and see how many of these people are standing there like they bought ringside seats. I also think someone with some type of authority should have gone over to the area where the Pacer players left the court and removed all of the fans who were gathering there and just waiting for the players to walk by so they can throw more crap at them. That, in my mind, where security personnel completely failed. I know this sort of thing hasn't happened before, but you still should always have a plan in place to protect players as they exit the court. Like I said yesterday, I'm not defending anything that any of the Pacers players did. The trio of Jackson, Artest and O'Neal should get suspended. I think the suspensions were a bit harsh though. Artest for 30, Jackson for 20, O'Neal for 10...something like that. I am a Pacers fan, but I'm trying to be reasonable here. (You won't hear me saying that this is a conspiracy to keep Indiana from winning a title.) However, I think Wallace started the whole thing, and the fans' actions escalated. I don't see how anyone can argue with that. Does that mean the Pacers should have reacted the way they did? No. But the bottom line is, the Pacers went to Detroit and beat their tails. Wallace got fouled (NOT flagrantly as another poster said earlier in this thread) and completely overreacted out of frustration for his team getting it handed to him. Just when order was being restored, the fan threw the cup at Artest. Then all hell broke loose. Again, I don't condone what those guys did afterwards. But it seems to me that the Pistons and their fans, in some strange way, are getting rewarded for this because Indiana has gone from the best team in the NBA to a team that could miss the playoffs, assuming the appeal isn't won. That does not seem right to me. I say that as a Pacers fan, and I say that as a sports fan. I agree with the others who said that fans seem to think they have this entitlement of acting like morons because they paid for a seat in the arena, and because they have been drinking and that's just what drunk people do. And finally, Ben Wallace questioning whether or not Artest should have fouled him given the situation of the game is completely ridiculous. The whole calling card for the Pistons in the 80s and last year was NO EASY BASKETS. That's regardless of the situation. Typical bully. They are all tough until someone returns the favor. I suppose on the next possession, Artest could have dribbled down the middle of the lane and threw down a tomahawk dunk and the Pistons would have stood there and watched.

You're suggesting that Artest was lying on the scorer's table, got hit in the face with a cup, and then thought to himself, "Hey if I go into the stands and start punching people, I can get suspended and work on my music career." Mark, I respect you as much as any on this board. But that's nonsense. I am not defending Artest. I hope you know that.

Point taken.

If I were to ask you how many flagrant fouls Artest has been called for in the last two years, your guess wouldn't be anywhere close. Get informed, then post something. By the way, your signature line was not a quote from Ron Artest. Nice try. Again, before I go any further with Pacer-related posts, please understand that I am not defending anything that the Pacer players did on Friday night. I don't even disagree with the suspensions, other than I think Artest should have received 30 games, not the whole season.

That's all he cares about? Since you are apparently from Boston and have an opinion about something NBA-related, I am going to take the assumption that you watch a little NBA. Check the stats for your boy Paul Pierce when the Celtics play the Pacers. For the most part, he has awful games. Why? Because of Ron Artest. Despite his personality problems, the guy comes to play, and plays HARD, every night. How many other NBA players can say the same thing? Defensive player of the year and averaging 20 points a game...I'd say he cares a lot about his basketball career. Of couse, you're free to dislike Artest but you can not say the guy doesn't care about basketball. If more people played like he did every night, the NBA would have more fans.

I understand just fine. I understand that the three Pacers did act like morons, just like you said. I understand that it wasn't a melee until the incident carried over into the crowd, just like you said. I also understand that to get to that point, two things had to happen: 1. Ben Wallace acted like a little B word out of frustration over his team getting whipped; 2. Detroit fans, known around the world for being idiots, got involved by throwing things at Pacer players. Neither of those two things were of any fault to the Pacers. Were those guys in the wrong? Absolutely. Should they get huge suspensions without pay? You bet. Now that the suspensions have been handed down, I'm not all that surprised. Jackson got worse than O'Neal, as he should. I don't agree with Artest getting booted for the season. 30 games, no pay.

What happened the other night was awful. Once Artest and Jackson went into the stands, they were wrong. Having said that, they didn't START the melee, and therefore should not be suspended for the season. 20 games for both of them; Artest will probably get more given his past. O'Neill should get suspended, but not as much as the others. He was not fighting in the stands. His big punch landed on the head of a fan who was ON THE COURT. Big difference in my opinion. If a fan runs on to a football field, he might get close-lined by a player, and he deserves it. The player doesn't get into any trouble. Given that it was in the middle of a brawl, though, it is slightly different and say O'Neill should get punished. But not 20 games. Those two idiots who came on to the floor to confront Artest got exactly what they deserved. The bottom line is that the whole thing started because Ben Wallace got fouled (not flagrantly) and Wallace got pissed because the Pacers had the audacity to go into the home of the defending champs and beat their ass. Poor Pistons. What the Pacers did during the brawl is not excusable, but the fact is NONE of this would have ever happened if Wallace didn't act like a baby because his team got their asses handed to them. Then, just when things were starting to cool down, it got crazy because fans threw things at Artest. Then all hell broke loose. Again, I'm not defending any of the Pacers' actions, but if I'm tailgating with R. Rich, Thailog, Lori and others from TBD, and some Dolphins fans comes up and throws a drink and a cup in one of our faces, I'm taking part in any action that defends our group. So to blame the Pacers entirely, like one poster did in this thread, is absolutely KzooMike. And for those of you making absurd comments about the Pacers sucking, you don't know a damn thing. I hated the NBA until I moved to Indy. I went to a few games because of free tickets and started liking the Pacers because of hard and intense they played night in and night out, regardless of opponent and regardless of the score. They had the best record in the NBA last year, and may have beaten the Pistons had it not been for injuries to key players down the stretch. This year, half of their roster is filled with guys who are injured, yet they still managed a 7-2 start (before the brawl), with wins at Minnesota and at Detroit. Suck? I don't think so. They are one of the best teams in the league, no question about it.

I am 6-3, 34-years old. On Aug. 16, 2004, I was 313 pounds. As of Monday, I am down to 278, a loss of 35 pounds. I feel great. This is the least I've weighed in about eight years. Still a long way to go, but it's a start.

What the hell is wrong with Josh Reed? What exactly is his injury? Sorry, but "my knee hurts" just doesn't cut it. If he has something more serious, then I apologize. But I remember watching the replay of his injury, and I didn't think it looked too serious. Now he's missed the last couple of games, and he's doubtful for Sunday.

Here's what's funny: Red Sox fans (including the dopes at ESPN), if Pedro signs with the Red Sox: Great move by the Red Sox. Outbid the Evil Empire. Red Sox are the front-runners in the AL East and to win the World Series in 2005. Same people if Pedro signs with the Yankees: Great move by the Red Sox. Made an early offer to Pedro and duped Steinbrenner and the Yankees into overpaying for an aging pitcher. It will be interesting to see what convenient spin Red Sox Nation will be forced to put on the Pedro situation.

GO COLTS! They are the local team. They are fun to watch. They have a classy head coach, Bill Polian and classy players. They have four Syracuse players on their roster. I long ago adopted them as my (distant) second favorite team. I don't think they have any shot at beating the Patriots in Foxboro and barring a miracle, any Colts-Pats game is going to be played at New England. Actually, and I have thought this since they lost to Pittsburgh, my prediction is that the Patriots will run the table, all the way through the Super Bowl.

Best of luck and God bless the Sarama family.

Hey Pete. It comes with the territory when you are a Yankees fan like we are. I'm afraid that, until we win the World Series, we will have to tolerate the teasing. But it will make it that much sweeter when we win No. 27.

I was born in upstate New York nine months after Woodstock, so I really have no idea. Thanks for asking though!