Indy Dave

That would be my list too, CBB.

I can say it backwards in about four seconds. I learned it backwards before I was 5. What can I say, I'm gifted.

In the NCAA, he wouldn't even be eligible for the kick return rankings because a player has to participate in 75 percent of the team's total number of games to qualify. His averages could have easily dropped if he played in those other five games.

Sorry if previously posted. I honestly looked for it...didn't see it though. Takeo made the Associated All-Pro team. He was the top vote-getter among all NFL outside linebackers with 32 votes. Derrick Brooks was second with 17 votes. No other Bills made it. Here are others who received votes: Shelton was fourth in voting among fullbacks, McGee was second in the voting for the All-Pro kick returner (missing out by a 1/2 vote to Eddie Drummond), Sam was fifth among DTs, Nate was 7th among CBs, and Moorman was fifth among punters.

Jester....that was indeed me, at the Jets game in December of 2003, doing my first bowling ball shot. I hope there is another one in about nine months. I agree that there is no way that Fletcher is near the player Singletary was, but he's better than Damien Covington, no? AKC made a very good comparison, using Jesse Tuggle. That's about where I'd put London Fletcher. Interestingly enough, both of those guys are from small schools. Tuggle played at Valdosta State, which finally won a DII national championship this year after many years of coming close.

I honestly don't know what his trade value. I'd say Travis is not as good as Corey Dillon, who garnered a second-round pick. But he's better than Lamar Gordon, who earned St. Louis a third-round pick when they sent him to Miami. Hopefully someone would pay at least a third-round pick for Travis. Like I said before, I'd prefer that we swapped him for a proven player. Obviously, the Colts won't give us Dwight Freeney for Travis, but there has to be a decent player out there who could fit in with us and who could be traded from a team in search of a capable running back.

Willis is faster than Travis. He's bigger and he's stronger. He catches better. He blocks better. He seems to have a better football IQ. No question he is an upgrade. I also don't argue that his presence in our backfield helped Drew and the offensive line. The only problem I have is with the venom shot at Travis. Is it his fault that we found a better running back? How did the emergence of Willis McGahee make Travis a lesser back? He has his shortcomings...lord knows they've been discussed on this board ad nauseum. But all of the sudden, he was being blamed for everything that went wrong with this team. And many people look at Travis and Willis and see things differently, depending on what fits their opinion. Let me give you an example. On the play that broke our back on Sunday (Pittsburgh's defensive touchdown), if Travis was on the field for that play and did the exact same thing Willis did, he would have been flamed for picking up the wrong blitzer. I just know this is true. On the other hand, if Willis had slipped (instead of Travis) in the game versus the Raiders, all people would talk about is how on the previous play, Willis got in the end zone. With Travis, all everyone talks about is the simple, honest (and admittedly costly) mistake of slipping on fourth down. Travis can run for 2,700 yards and 23 TDs over two seasons and he gets no praise? All people focus on with Travis is the negative. I realize that the negatives are there, though some (like the fumbling) can get completely exaggerated by some posters. But he did a lot of good for the team, and without him in 2003, we would have had, quite possibly, the worst offense I've ever seen. He's a good running back. Not great. Not as good as Willis. He deserves his share of criticism for his shortcomings on the field, and his decisions off the field. But you'd think he was O.J. Simpson the way he is treated around here. I agree with you. Travis' days in Buffalo are over. I don't blame him for wanting a trade. I think we can get some value in return, be it a player or a draft pick. I just don't see why he is being dragged through the mud so much around here. So we got a better running back in Willis...that's a good thing. I won't ever be upset when we upgrade our talent. But I also won't fail to appreciate the good things a player does for the Buffalo Bills, even when someone better comes in to take his place.

I thought he meant Bobby April.

Actually that worked out pretty well for us, no?

Yes. That call was bogus. We should have started the ensuing drive on our own 35 or 40 instead of our own 1-yard line. Of course, we were about to go 99 yards on their ass anyway and take an 8-point lead until Josh Reed decided to make his presence felt.

Fair enough. If Willis has anywhere close to the career Franco has, I imagine we will all be happy fans. And Darin is right...Willis can't get us to the Super Bowl by himself. As for Travis, I think it's in our best interests that Travis get traded this off-season. I think he did a good job of keeping his mouth shut the last several weeks. No doubt that the fact that he was injured and couldn't play anyway made it easier for him to do so. I do, though, question whether or not he could do that for another off-season, training camp, regular season, and (please GOD) postseason. My preference would be to trade him for a player equal to his talents (good not great) and in a similar contract situation. I'd want Tom and Mike to identify a player who plays a position of need on our team and make a swap with a team looking for a running back. If that can't happen, get the highest draft pick you can. As for London, I stand by what he said. He is very good, but he's not the best linebacker on our team and he's not among the top five middle linebackers in the NFL right now. That makes it hard to mention him in the same breath as Singletary. And to your credit (and for the sake of clarity), I realize you didn't say London is as good as Mike.

Darin...you are truly a jackass. And I mean that as a compliment.

Bill...I'll always think higher of Travis than you will. You and I have closed the book on that. But two things about your post... Willis is better than TH and makes our team better. But to compare him to Franco Harris? A little premature, don't you think? When Willis is helping us get to four Super Bowls, or one, or starts garnering Hall of Fame credentials, we'll talk. London Fletcher compared to Mike Singletary??? Where is the outrage on this board over that statement? One of the best middle linebackers...EVER. Maybe THE best. That describes Mike Singletary. Very good player who is not quite a Pro Bowler, but good enough that most fans can forgive him for the handful of really stupid plays he makes each year. That describes London Fletcher. The rest of your post is right on the money.

LasBillz... OK so maybe Darin isn't exactly Mr. Sugarcoat. But geez...do you not see his point? People are going to call a game against the Chargers next year a loss? Why? If this was January of 2004 and the Chargers were on our 2004 schedule, you'd have us down for a win, right? Whose to say that they are not a complete fluke and will return to being a 4-12 team in 2005? That's just as likely as them following up this season with another just like it in 2005. That's the nature of the NFL these days, when just about every team is one injury or a couple of plays, from going from good to average, average to bad, or bad to awful.

No, you didn't say cancer, and you didn't specify a year. Here's what you said: I guess you CONVENIENTLY forgot what Travis said after we drafted Willis? THAT is where it began, NOT after the Steelers game. I'm sorry, but w3e're only reacting to how he acted FROM April TO NOW... Since you apparently want me to break down what you said, I summise to you that the words "That is where it began" refers to the aforementioned "after we drafted Willis." We drafted Willis in April of 2003, which is when Travis made his infamous "slap in the face" remark. Mind you, any running back coming off the season TH had in 2002 would have said basically the same thing, and that includes Willis. Think about it. What would Willis say if we somehow reacquired our first-round pick for the 2005 draft and spent it on a running back? And while you didn't use the word cancer, you did use the word "it." In this thread, I presumed "it" referred to Travis being some sort of problem. Look at your words. That is where IT began. If IT, used in the way you used it, isn't referring to Travis being some sort of problem, then you tell me what you meant. Oh, and chew on this while you're at it... McGahee said he appreciated Henry's professionalism in handling "the pressure and controversy." But he essentially challenged Henry to return and fight for his job. "He's just got to come back and fight for it, fight for what's his, because I'd do the same," said McGahee. Quarterback Drew Bledsoe, who said the Bills likely would not have won as many games as they did without the spark McGahee provided, also stood up for Henry. "Travis Henry, all year, has been a team guy, put the team first, and really had to swallow his pride," he said. "Selfishly, I hope Travis is back. He's a credit to this organization. For him personally, we all know he's a guy who can run for 1,500 yards a year and he deserves to be a starter. He's a credit to this team, or any team he can play for in the future." A team guy...that coming from the starting quarterback. Henry's professionalism...that coming from the man who beat him for his job. I think I'll take their words over BF in Indiana or anyone who acts like they have some inside information about Travis being a problem, only it was kept out of the media.

No argument here. Willis proved to be a better back than Travis. I want to be clear on that.

So, you're saying that Travis has been a cancer since April of 2003? Yeah, he sure was a cancer during the 2003 season, when he was the ONLY offensive player on the team that didn't look like they just awoke from a coma.

Yes...it has his fault we were 3-13, 6-10 and 8-8. All his fault. Nothing to do with average players up and down the offensive roster and lousy coaching.

Best post on this thread. Well said Bart.

Excuse me, but why don't you get your facts straight? We drafted Willis in April. That's April of 2003. I'd say Travis did pretty well during the 2003 season.

He waited until the season was over. This makes him a cancer? How? 90 percent of NFL players would be saying the same thing Travis is saying, only many of them would be saying it week in and week out during the course of the season. Your hatred of the guy is amazing. I'll be glad when Travis is gone, if for no other reason so you can turn your negativity towards someone else. Travis was beaten out for the job by a better running back. I haven't seen one person dispute this. Not once. So what the hell is your problem? At least Travis did something when he played. There are guys who have played for the Bills over the last few years who haven't done 1/10th of what Travis did.

No question about it. The worst GM in football is light years smarter (in a football sense) than the smartest fan on an internet message board. It's still fun to talk and read about opinions fans have as to what should be done to improve this team.

There is a difference between whining that Travis was given a raw deal, and stating that the draft pick used to select Willis should have been used somewhere else. People who claim Travis was given a raw deal just don't get it. He was beaten by a guy who is better than he is. However, one questioning the selection of McGahee 20 or so months ago when we had so many greater needs than running back had every reason in the world to do so. Sure, it worked out and I'm happy Willis is on the team. But at the time, it was a legitimate issue to express concern about. You know how much a fan of Travis I am, but the fact is he was beaten out for the job by a better running back. It doesn't make Travis any less of a running back though.

I'd like to see the Colts beat the Packers in the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, the Patriots are going to win it again.

I'm convinced that we will never get to where we want to be with Drew Bledsoe as our quarterback. Nice guy, not a bad quarterback. But the game has changed and good defenses can make him look awful. I don't even mind the approach we took for much of the season on offense...do what you can with what you have and just don't make crucial mistakes. Let the defense and special teams win the game. But against a great defense, Drew is incapable of playing mistake-free football. He's proven that time and time again, and it's time to move on. So that leaves us with young J.P. Obviously, we haven't seen enough of him to make a judgement. Not taking anything away from the amazing season that Big Ben had in Pittsburgh, but the fact is, the guy was surrounded by three good receivers, two very good running backs, and had a defense to back the offense up. They had a four-game stretch late in the season in which they scored less than 20 points and won all four games...three of those games were against non-playoff teams. You don't have score in the 30s when your defense plays good football and your offense is solid and doesn't turn the ball over. So what does J.P need? With Eric and Lee, we have two good receivers. We don't have a third receiver on the team that can get it done. Many people will disagree, but I think getting another top receiver should be a point of emphasis this off-season. I've read that Derrick Mason might get cut by Tennessee. He'd be ideal. There may be others who are cheaper who could be just as effective. I'm just throwing a name out there. Mason is built a lot like Evans, not quite as fast. Not as physically gifted as Moulds, but better hands. This would be a great trio of receivers. Bye bye Josh Reed. We can't upgrade everything, so we keep Campbell and Euhus as our primary tight ends. I know many have said we need to upgrade this position. To an extent, I agree. But with a more mobile quarterback, having a great receiving tight end isn't as great a need as it would be if Drew was still starting. Many of you know I am a big fan of Travis Henry. However, we upgraded the position with the selection of Willis McGahee. That stiff-arm is lethal. And this is only the beginning. As for Henry, I would not trade him for anything less than a third-round pick. My preference would be to trade him straight up for a player equal to his talents. Good, not great, but someone who plays a position where we could use some help and/or depth. A pass-rushing specialist, a linebacker, a young safety...whatever TD thinks is the position of most importance. I wouldn't mind keeping Travis either, assuming he can handle that role. I thought McNally did a great job this year and the offensive line went from awful to not bad. They still have work to do, and maybe the draft or cheap free agents can upgrade the talent and depth. We probably can only sign one of our two big free agents. I think Jonas is going to make our decision for us by bolting, and we'll end up resigning Pat. Judging by Mr. Wilson's comments in today's Buffalo News, signing Pat is a priority. As for our secondary, I think we will find out what the front office and coaching staff thinks of guys like Greer, Wire, Thomas and Baker. They are all young...do the men in charge think enough of them as players should Milloy, Vincent, McGee or Nate go down with an injury? We can win with our defense the way it is. It will be interesting to see which area gets upgraded in terms of depth. My guess is the starters will all be the same next year. One question I have is about Posey. If you didn't follow the Bills every day except Sunday, you'd probably wouldn't know who he is. I just don't see the guy doing a whole lot with regards to big plays. He gets about four tackles a game, rarely makes a sack or an interception. Maybe he's just a steady, if not spectacular, player. He certainly isn't discussed much on this board, not that I have seen anyway. What's your take on him?