metzelaars_lives

Yeah that pretty much did it for me as far as that conversation goes.

So which is it?

This is a smart post. Although you are not the first one to mention this with respect to the QB position- I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say the same thing about our offensive line. Everyone was clamoring for us to take an offensive lineman but it seems like everyone forgets that we drafted three of them last year. And not to mention, all three were seen as excellent value picks at the time. It takes those guys a year or two to develop as well. Kouandjio and Richardson certainly have shorter leashes 'round these parts than one Edward Joseph Manuel, that's for sure. Ha not sure about that. Virtually everyone describes him as somewhat of a poor man's Vick. Maybe better than the 2015 version of Vick. But I too am pulling for Taylor to win the job. While I just ant good QB play regardless, I think I would be most excited if he won it.

So answer this- the bills receivers are magically placed on the colts this season. At the end of the year are those three in the discussion for best in the league? Or do you think luck is like, "coach i'm sorry I can't work with these guys?" My guess is the former. And I'd bet ya Robert woods would end up with a hell of a lot more than 640 yards. There's just such a dramatic disparity in qb play that it's impossible to tell.

You just named the best receivers in the league. Yes I would take Julio Jones over any of our WR's (maybe for now) but anyone would rather have the combination of Watkins, Woods and Harvin than Jones, an on-his-very-last-legs Roddy White and Harry Douglas.

You are utterly ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that if Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck had Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods (3rd or 4th on many teams? What?) and Percy Harvin to throw to throw to this year that that unit wouldn't be considered one of the very best if not the best in the league by the end of the season, you are severely, severely misguided. As if Nelson, Cobb and Boykins had Manuel/Lewis/Tuel/Orton throwing to them the last two years that they would be considered an elite unit. All things being equal the Bills are almost certainly a top 5 unit and definitely a top 10 unit by anyone looking at this rationally and objectively. Hell, Tom Brady could take our 4-6 as his 1-3 (Hogan, Goodwin and Easley or whoever) and the Patriots would still go 11-5.

Precisely.

Yes exactly. That's all that needs to be said.

Grandma? Is that you?

I said our line sucked last year. I said they were very good in 2007-08. They were. They were elite in pass blocking before Peters left and sufficient in run blocking. I said they were one of the best in the league in 2012. They absolutely were. They clearly regressed under Marrone. Disagree completely.

Not true. This is always thrown around here and it's simply not true. The Bills' offensive line was very good in 2007-2008 and one of the best in the league in 2012. And it wasn't awful in between. Quite honestly, the worst it's ever been since Jackson has been here was last year.

You really think Doug Gilmour is coming out of retirement and playing CB for the Bills? EDIT: Figured I couldn't be the only one with that response.

Dude I was going to say the exact same thing. Glad someone else noticed that.

Wait, is this thread in the PPP right now? What does PPP even stand for? So I can say whatever I want and not have to worry about warnings for saying I think EJ Manuel is probably still going to suck this year?

I don't get it at all. How is me taking a few jabs at conservatives somehow less noble and more cowardly than you saying that liberals are incapable of catching their own proverbial fish in your signature? The difference is that I only go there when pressed whereas your fishing metaphor and Larry the Cable Guy joke are on every single post you make. I'm completely befuddled.

If I implied that every conservative was like my former co-worker then I apologize, that was not my intent. My point was more to show how futile it is to argue with anyone who is set in their ways. I can see how you interpreted it that way.

It's not terrible. It definitely has its moments. Jim Breuer sucks but Scarface is amazing in it.

I appreciate the compliment regarding my football analysis but I'm not sure what I said here regarding any sort of political analysis that is controversial at all. All I was trying to say was that it's every bit as futile for a conservative to debate me as it is vice versa. When it comes to social issues, people are usually pretty set in their ways. In the history of me debating politics/social issues, listening to the talking heads on the right and left, etc., I've never once changed my mind about something that I felt strongly about to begin with and I'm pretty sure I've never changed anyone else's mind either. This conversation recalls the classic saying, "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." So let me get this straight: You are criticizing me for taking subtle jabs at modern conservative ideals (every last one of the Republicans running for the nomination will spout anti-environment, anti-less fortunate and certainly anti-science rhetoric during the primaries- you seem smart enough to realize that) and are telling me that it's cowardly (by the way it's "cowardice" not 'cowardness') to do so in this forum yet in your own signature- which is displayed every time you post in this forum- you have a bunch of anti-democratic quotes? And one of them is by none other than Larry the Cable Guy? So every time I'm looking to just talk football with you I have to read a joke- by Larry the Cable Guy mind you- about how liberals are stupid? Just making sure.

Can't debate this much longer and I don't really think we're that far off but Hogan did not see regular game action in 2013. Last year he did and he had 41 catches at 10.4 ypc. In 2013 Goodwin saw regular game action as well with 17 catches at 16.6 ypc. So the trade off is pretty apparent in those numbers. Although no one is averaging 16.6 ypc with all those 3 yard outs Hogan caught last year. Quite honestly, I like both players. I'll leave it at that.

You mean Goodwin's "touch." Ok reasonable post. I don't disagree that if Goodwin gets as many touches that he doesn't break more big plays. Obviously. My assertion would be that in the same number of snaps he doesn't get nearly the touches. Maybe it was a function of marrone not knowing how to utilize him. After all, he is coaching in Jacksonville now. Just in case people didn't know that.

Oy vay. Easley is their best special teams ace since tasker and they just re-signed him to a multiyear deal. His spot is more secure than Hogan or Goodwin in my opinion.

If by kick return ability you mean he's really fast then yes I'd agree with you. If by being good at actually returning kicks I'd have to disagree. Plus he won't sniff a kick return this year with harvin on the roster. Meanwhile Hogan will play every snap on kicks and punts.

I hate to go all McCoy on you guys but I almost feel like there is some racial stereotyping going on with respect to Hogan. Just because he is a white receiver people act like he's some plodding, little engine that could, methodical player who is bereft of any sort of talent but, ya know, he's white so he's able to maximize the little skill that god gave him. The dude started playing football at like 20 and has absolutely blazing speed. Albeit not quite Goodwin's speed but I'm almost inclined to think that if he was black he'd be held in a higher regard around here based on the season he had last year. Did he drop a ball? He made that insane catch against Minnesota, I know that. Would be very surprised if he didn't make the roster. Goodwin is very much on the bubble. He gets hurt in the offseason, which is like a 50/50 proposition, he's done for. Plus Hogan has proven to be way more useful on special teams than Goodwin.

I've never even been on ppp. In fact, I've never even seen or looked for the link. I waste way too much of my time on here as it is. At least on here, every once in a blue moon, you can construct an argument in a manner that can lead people to change the way they think about things. I've worked in corporate America and debated conservatives for hours on end. It is futile for them as well as myself. Here is an argument I witnessed in the office once that sums up conservatives and their unwillingness to budge: guy #1: being gay is not a choice that people make. Guy #2: yes it is. Guy #1: hey gay guy, come here for a second. Did you ever decide to be gay or were you born the way you are. Gay guy: of course the latter. Guy #2: sorry, I don't believe you. Now what in the world can be gained from debating with someone like that? I've found it much more enjoyable and certainly much less frustrating to just sit back and make fun of people I disagree with politically with those whom I agree with rather than try and engage those with whom I will never see eye to eye. Which isn't to say that there aren't certain issues where I do agree with conservatives, but on those I don't, going on ppp certainly isn't gonna turn me into a birther or a gravity denier or whatever your cause d'jour is, much the same way I'm not gonna turn you into a tree hugger or one who sympathizes with the less fortunate or believes scientists over rush limbaugh. So let's keep it to football.

I'm ignorant here- what sort of track history does this guy have that would indicate he's a trouble maker? I know he said he's eager to compete and play special teams so that sounded good to me. I really didn't follow the draft much at all this year.