metzelaars_lives

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this again but please stop telling other people that they're trolling just because they have a different opinion than you. Bills fan, you have said on this very website that if the Bills never switched to Orton and stuck with Manuel all season that they would've finished 12-4. Like you really said that and you weren't kidding- from what I could tell at least. What you fail to realize is that to an objective observer, that could very easily be perceived as trolling because it's an utterly preposterous opinion to have- so much so that a lot of people can't even tell if you're serious half the time. So please, just because someone thinks that EJ Manuel probably won't develop into a franchise QB does not make them a troll. You need to learn what that word means. Imagine if you told me that you didn't think Chris Williams was going to develop into a all-pro guard and every time you mentioned it, I said, "You're just a hater... How dare you not support a player on the Bills... But his coach is now coaching in Jacksonville... He only played two games for us... Cyril Richardson came in and didn't do much better... But he was a first round draft pick... You don't think Chris Williams is ever gonna be that good? Stop trolling everybody..."

Jesus, this is still going?

No. I will be thrilled and I will say, wow you were right, I didn't see that one coming. That's merely a battle in the war though. He's gotta keep the job and develop into a guy who could someday become our guy. I just don't think that's likely to happen. Is that bad?

So because you pick out some random horrible game that a guy who has been quite impressive through three seasons had, the rest of us aren't allowed to be skeptical about EJ Manuel? Got it. So if in 1985 Joe Montana had some bad game against the Rams or something, that should make me feel better about EJ Manuel after watching him for the last two years? Hey I "support" EJ Manuel. He's on the Bills. I support the troops too. That doesn't mean I have to agree with every war they participate in.

Let me ask you guys something. What do you think are the percent chances that EJ a) wins the job this summer, b) plays well enough to keep the job all season, does a solid job and leads the Bills to the playoffs and c) is the Bills' unquestioned starter week 1 2017. I'd go: a) 30% b) 14% c) 9% What say you?

This is getting so tiresome. JUST BECAUSE OTHER QUARTERBACKS HAVE BAD GAMES SOMETIMES DOES NOT MEAN THAT EJ MANUEL IS GOING TO BECOME A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK. Because Ryan Tannehill had a bad game one time does that mean you still believe JP Losman might still work out? For the millionth time the argument that many of us have against EJ Manuel developing into a franchise QB is not based solely on the Houston game. It is the fact that he clearly regressed all last offseason and then completely sucked for TWO games. He was just as bad against San Diego as he was against Houston. Remember what a big story it was when he had a good practice against the Steelers last summer?? That was pretty much his only good practice all last offseason. And then he was an abomination in the preseason as well. And if you think there's something funny about me bringing up practice, Manuel better damn sure show something in practice this offseason or he's out of a job altogether.

Agree with every word you said except that I think Cassel will give us the best chance to win this year and also what you have to add to his mixed bag on the field is his disaster of a 2014 offseason/preseason.

I don't disagree with you at all. Let me re-phrase that: the two games in which he absolutely sucked. And I'm also sick and tired of the "oh the Houston game, it was just one game, JJ Watt was unstoppable that day, Joe Flacco sucked one time against the Texans too..." narrative. HE WAS EVERY BIT AS BAD THE WEEK BEFORE AGAINST SAN DIEGO.

What do you agree w/ Biscuit about? Then again, you said that the Bills would've finished 12-4 last year had they not benched Manuel so why am I arguing with you anyway. You go out of your way to make it sound like someone who doesn't think that EJ Manuel will develop into a starting QB in this league is a "hater" and then you make statements like "Manuel would've won every game Orton did last year plus three additional ones" and we're not supposed to think you're insane. Let me ask you this: are you EJ Manuel? And who said they'd rather have Geno Smith? All I've said is that you can't mock a guy like Geno Smith and then adamantly defend Manuel. They're pretty much in the exact same class of QB's at this juncture.

Ha. EJ Manuel played so incredibly bad the previous two games and had lost any shred of confidence he still had left. Orton came in and played a pretty solid game for having just come in off the bench. He threw for over 300 yards and made some clutch throws, including the prettiest pass anyone threw all season down the sideline to Goodwin, which led to a TD. Yes, they didn't score a ton of points but they were on the road against the #1 defense in the league at the time. And yes, their kicker missed a bunch of field and goals and yes, agreed, the Bills wouldn't have won had he not but the bottom line is that they won the game and they wouldn't have won it the way Manuel was playing- missed field goals included. Everyone on this entire website was happy with Orton's performance after that game and not one person was questioning the move to bench Manuel at that point. Is that the EJ dreamers' newest argument: EJ Manuel is good because the Detroit kicker missed a bunch of field goals? And also, I'm sure they would've beat Miami at home with Orton and I'm sure they would've lost that night game on the road at Miami with Manuel. It's like, yes, Orton sucked in that Miami game, agreed. But what in the world did Manuel show you in his last two starts to indicate he would've been any better? Orton sucked too is not a viable argument in your crusade that EJ Manuel can be a good QB in this league. And also, why is EJ Manuel the only Bills player you're not allowed to be critical about? If Seantrel Henderson completely blows through four games next year and you say that you're not sure he has what it takes and maybe it's time he sits and lets someone else take a turn, I'm going to make sure and say, "Hey CBiscuit! Keep fighting the good fight. I hope belittling Seantrel Henderson makes you feel better about yourself. You should be praised for your ability to trash a Bills player..."

EJ Manuel would have been 0-4 if in addition to his two single digit QBR performances (Orton had none of those) he played the Patriots twice and in the second game the Patriots didn't rest their starters, instead of playing the Bears and Dolphins. For Christ's sake, Manuel was 2-2 and Orton was 7-5. That's it. And there's absolutely no way on God's green earth that EJ Manuel would have won that Detroit game, for whatever that's worth. EDIT: Here's the bottom line. Orton sucked too. Not nearly as bad as Manuel but yes, he sucked. He was good in the Detroit game, the home New England game and the two Jets games but that's about it. I don't understand why the EJ dreamers keep holding onto this idea that because Orton also sucked that somehow that gives them hope that EJ Manuel will develop into a franchise QB. For the life of me, I can't understand what one has to do with the other. I've said it before but the big three reasons the EJ dreamers give for their blind faith are that he's only played 14 games (same number Tebow has), Doug Marrone is now coaching in Jacksonville and now my personal favorite, Orton sucked too. EJ Manuel could get cut and then Matt Cassel could suck this year too. Will that make EJ Manuel's stock go up even more? I can see it now: "well if EJ never got cut, he could've won that Bengals game too..."

+2.5 at home isn't really that much more flattering than +6.5 on the road. Don't forget that home field counts for 3 points. So they're saying that on a neutral field the colts are 5.5 better than us and the bears were 3.5 better than us. You can anticipate that spread inching closer to a pick 'em as September approaches. Right now I'd take the bills at +8.5 and whatever the over is in a teaser all day every day. But that's just me.

That's a damn fine post right there.

Chris Williams is not a factor in this equation. He's obviously gonna get cut. It's gonna be glenn, incognito, wood, miller and whoever wins the battle between cyrus and Henderson and it's going to be a vastly improved line. Barring injury I'd be shocked if it's not a good line. Please stop with this. You talk about whaley not addressing the line- he went all in on the line one year ago and all three were viewed as great value picks at the time. Give the guys a year or two would ya?

?? When in the world did I say that? I'm not sure I've ever even had much of an opinion on Bryce Brown one way or another. But sure, for what it's worth, the odds of Bryce Brown being a better running back than CJ Spiller are certainly better than the odds of EJ Manuel being the Bills' starting QB on opening day in 2017.

Rex Ryan constantly throws "and things like that" and "and stuff like that" at the ends of sentences. Now that I've told you, it's going to drive you nuts.

Winning the starting QB job this offseason would be a huge step forward for Manuel and his career as he has yet to actually win a starting QB job in either of his first two seasons. That doesn't mean that him winning the job means anyone gets to tell me "I told you so" just yet. What's even unlikelier than him winning the job- which Sal Capaccio currently has at 10%- would be him staying healthy, improving his game and being productive all season long. You yourself are on record as saying that you believe EJ Manuel will be the Bills starting QB on opening day in 2017. I find that scenario highly unlikely. It would be great though. As I've said numerous times, nothing would make me happier than the EJ dreamers getting to tell me that they told me so. That would be the best case scenario for the Bills for sure.

1. Think of how insane it would be if Downing came out and said, "EJ's accuracy issues? Yeah those are not correctable." 2. I think hoping for EJ Manuel or Tyrod Taylor to be better than Cassel has his been at his best (his two ten win seasons- look up his numbers) is a pipe dream. I'm just hoping for Cassel to play at his very best. It's time for Bills fans to deal with reality here. And reality is that if Cassel plays at his very best, this is a 12 win football team.

This is kind of what's going to happen around here when EJ flames out this offseason and maybe even gets cut. Either way, he's not winning the starting job. I just can't wait for this to be over and to be tailgating for Bills-Colts.

Seriously though, how could this thread not be a car wreck?

FWIW TBD's golden boy Sal Capaccio just tweeted this: "65% Matt Cassel. 25% Tyrod Taylor. 10% EJ Manuel." -#Bills starting QB chances as of today in the opinion of @SalSports. What do you think?" Discuss.

Wait a second- them? What did Richie Sambora do?

I wouldn't panic just yet. Doug marrone is now coaching in Jacksonville so that means Manuel should be good this year. Plus he's only played 14 games so he's got that going for him. And also, Kyle Orton sucked last year too so EJ should be fine.

Nah. The only thing that saved the bills in buffalo was Terry pegula coming along. He wasn't getting outbid by anyone. He wasn't just some dude who bought the bills by default; he's the fourth richest owner in the nfl. I would agree that without him magically appearing out of thin air to buy the sabres and then the bills, it's very likely that someone from another market would've bought and moved the bills. We owe a great deal to the man.

Sandwich*