metzelaars_lives

I don't even know how to access the shoutbox from my phone and I don't have the NFL ticket. I can assure you I do not take my computer with me to the bar to chat in the shoutbox during Bills games. I wait for Bill in NYC's thread after I get home and I'm drunk to start arguing with him.

No. I will be completely reasonable and objective about him just as I have always been about every Bills player. If he completely sucks, I will say he sucks. If he's just OK, I'll say he's just OK. If he's great, I'll say he's great. I promise. I have no ulterior motive here. And I also would never post on this website during a Bills game. I am at the bar watching. The analysis comes after the game.

It was not lost on me. It was a nice attempt at bringing the two sides together. I think some people just prefer to argue and have no interest in agreeing on anything. You would think that a stance of "Let's wait and see what happens. I'm certainly rooting for the guy but if I had to guess right now, my guess is that he doesn't develop into a franchise QB" wouldn't be that controversial. It's actually a softer stance than virtually everyone who's not a Bills fan is taking on the guy. But here's to hoping more people start to realize that it's all right around the corner and this will all be over soon.

Ahh the 'Orton sucked too' Manuel defense. One of my personal favorites.

Listen strunzo, why don't you read what I wrote. You made a post in which you said: a) I'm not allowed to have an opinion as to whether or not EJ Manuel will become a good QB. OK fine, you're not the first one to tell me this. but then b) Doug Marrone intentionally sabotaged EJ Manuel in order to "cover his ass?" What does that even mean? Doug Marrone thought that by getting poor QB play and losing, he somehow stood to gain something? And furthermore, if we can't all see this, then we're all idiots? You need to change your tone man. Why don't you actually read what I wrote and let me know what you think instead of always being so incredibly condescending and smarmy. And P.S. you're not quite as smart as you think you are.

Why has been Tim Tebow been relegated to camp fodder at this stage in his career? He's only played 14 games too. How could anyone possibly know anything about him? Could it be that he has sucked in practice too? Did Manuel's 2014 offseason/preseason concern you at all? Or when he spent all summer sailing balls in 7-on-7 drills was that Marrone's fault too? You know, plenty of quarterbacks have never even gotten 14 starts in this league to showcase their talents. Plenty of quarterbacks in this league would have been cut if they looked like Manuel last offseason/preseason. He's lucky he got taken in the first round and not the third round or people would perceive him and his supposed upside extremely differently. As I stated yesterday, he wasn't even that good in college. All that being said, I will go on record as saying that I am officially rooting for EJ Manuel to win the job. I think it's better for the organization if he emerges as our starter. But my God, if he can't beat out Matt Cassel, you people need to stop this charade. You realize if he can't beat out Matt Cassel and is relegated to backup duties again this year, he will still have only played 14 games. So does that mean you still get to say that we know nothing about him? Or will his not winning the job count in terms of what we "know" about him? Honest questions for you. Fire away.

My agenda is to say let's just see what happens. If he happens to emerge as the guy that would be awesome. I'm just not more sold on the prospect of that happening because of this article or people's opinions in this thread. That's all.

1. Bills 2. Sabres 3. Colorado Rockies 4. Canisius Basketball 5. Wyoming Football 6. Denver Nuggets Not one goddamn championship. Unless you count Canisius winning the MAAC the year before I went there.

Me personally, I started my participation in this great thread by saying, "hey guys we're almost there, can't we just wait and see what happens?" But unfortunately that's not good enough for most people on this thread, who are on a mission to prove that the verdict is in: EJ Manuel is going to be really good because Doug Marrone.

Dude you need to go back and take some logic classes. Because a QB happens to play in a division that is down at the moment (Houston's defense is gonna be top 5 by the way), that doesn't have anything to do with how good of a player he is. The AFC East might be the best division in football this year. Does that make Geno Smith a better QB? But agreed, let's not revisit that one. Nope you are mistaken. I would love for EJ to emerge as the clear cut starter. I just don't think it's likely. That is all.

I hold all of the following statements to be true: "he probably will not develop into our franchise QB" "I don't think he will develop into our franchise QB" "I think it is less than likely that he is our franchise QB two years from now" "I have not given up on him" "I don't want the Bills to cut him" "I think it's possible that he does develop into our franchise QB" Not sure what else I can say.

So what you are saying is that when one thinks a scenario playing out is less than likely that they also they also think that scenario playing out is impossible? So do you think the Blues will probably win the Stanley Cup next year? Oh so you're saying you are holding out no hope that it's possible they win the Stanley cup next year? What about the Nationals wining the World Series this year? I don't think it's more than likely that they win the World Series this year but they certainly could. Once again, you have painted yourself into a corner here and instead of saying, "oh ok, I see what you're saying," you continue to not read my posts, come back more and more combative each time and as a result, make yourself look more and more ridiculous with each response. In less than 12 months I have spent countless hours (God knows why) arguing against your stances that: 1. The Bills do NOT have an elite defense; in order to be elite, they have to do it for several more years. In fact, my introduction to you as a poster was last season when you BWAHAHAHAHAHA'd me for pleasantly discussing with another poster how the Bills have an elite defense. 2. The Bills would have finished 12-4 last year had they not switched to Orton and let Manuel play the entire season. 3. Andrew Luck is not one of your top 5 young QB's in the game to build a franchise around. 4. And now, if you think something is less than likely to happen, that necessarily means that you think there is no chance of it happening. So the only odds people are allowed to give an event occurring are anywhere between 50-100% and then 0%. There is no such thing as someone really believing that there is a 20% of something happening.

I don't know where you're going with this. I'm still waiting for you to respond to this post from a few pages back- my retort to your assertion that because I think it's less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB but I also haven't totally given up on him that I smoke crack cocaine. I'm gonna try this again here because- and I mean this with all due respect as you seem like a wonderful guy- I get the sense that you have difficulty grasping concepts that come rather easily to most others. Have you ever gone out with girls before? I go out with girls a lot. I'm perpetually single (this is part of the Bills analogy so try and follow along). Anyway sometimes I'll go on a date with a girl and I'll say, ya know what? I don't really think this one's happening. Realistically, the chances of me marrying this girl are probably pretty slim. However, there were some things I did like about her- maybe we had a few things in common that could form the basis for something or maybe she simply had a great rack- so I would go out with her again, sure. So in the above example, both of the following things hold true: a) I think the chances of this girl and I ending up together long term are less than likely. b) I would go out with her again; I haven't totally given up on the idea that perhaps on our next date we will uncover some synergies that weren't there on our first date and maybe, just maybe, there could be something there. This is a tremendous analogy. If you can't understand this, I am at a complete loss and I can't help you. I am guessing you will come back with a very combative two sentence response telling me in another one of your creative ways that I really hate EJ and I just won't admit it, making it blatantly obvious that you didn't even take the time to read what I wrote. We shall see.

Yeah it became an official stat a few years back. Not sure it would be on the back of a Topps football card but it's pretty hard to avoid when you're looking up WR stats.

Here ya go. http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400554212

I thought you said that he was polished coming out of college? If you asked me to give you a QB who, coming out of college, could be described as "raw" and a "project," the first QB that would pop into my head would be Tim Tebow. Actually there are a lot of comparisons between the two. Both were projected as 3rd round types by most but had teams willing to take a chance on them in the first round because they loved some of the tools and the upside. Clearly, EJ had/has a better arm coming out of college but at least Tebow was able to put it together at the college level. Another thing people have seemingly forgotten about Manuel is that he wasn't even that good in college. So to that point, I understand what you're trying to say. But as pro prospects, Tebow was every bit as raw- probably much more raw- than Manuel.

Is there really a guy on this website trying to say that Tim Tebow was not projected as a project qb by most teams coming out of college?

I suppose that's fair. Then again, Manuel has the exact same sample size as one Tim Tebow (besides his playoff win of course) and the league seems to have formed an opinion on him. Again, people love to point to the 14 games as being his only sample size but no one ever wants to talk about his dumpster fire of a 2014 offseason/preseason. Coaches and teams (and so too should fans) form many of their opinions on players in camp, practice and the preseason. It's where guys not named Dareus, Mario Williams and Sammy Watkins have to go out and earn their job. It's why guys like Tim Tebow have found themselves out of a job altogether. Here's to hoping Manuel's 2015 offseason goes a lot smoother than last year.

Don't disagree at all. That being said, do you think it's OK for someone to say, if I had to guess if it's going to work out for him, I would guess yes or no? My contention here is that people get so defensive about EJ and say "how could we even possibly make so much as a prediction about the guy, we know nothing yet" but then in another thread say, "well of course the verdict is in for Geno Smith, the guy is a joke."

That's what I proposed but this thread is composed mainly of people wanting to prove to those who are taking the wait-and-see approach that we are stupid for not seeing the light- that because Marrone was a bad coach, it should be clear that he's going to be really good. At least that is my understanding.

I'm gonna try this again here because- and I mean this with all due respect as you seem like a wonderful guy- I get the sense that you have difficulty grasping concepts that come rather easily to most others. Have you ever gone out with girls before? I go out with girls a lot. I'm perpetually single (this is part of the Bills analogy so try and follow along). Anyway sometimes I'll go on a date with a girl and I'll say, ya know what? I don't really think this one's happening. Realistically, the chances of me marrying this girl are probably pretty slim. However, there were some things I did like about her- maybe we had a few things in common that could form the basis for something or maybe she simply had a great rack- so I would go out with her again, sure. So in the above example, both of the following things hold true: a) I think the chances of this girl and I ending up together long term are less than likely. b) I would go out with her again; I haven't totally given up on the idea that perhaps on our next date we will uncover some synergies that weren't there on our first date and maybe, just maybe, there could be something there. This is a tremendous analogy. If you can't understand this, I am at a complete loss and I can't help you. I am guessing you will come back with a very combative two sentence response telling me in another one of your creative ways that I really hate EJ and I just won't admit it, making it blatantly obvious that you didn't even take the time to read what I wrote. We shall see.

Listen man, why don't you read my big long last post that spells out how exactly what I think about this rather than continuously skipping over my posts and then telling me what I think.

This is getting ridiculously exhausting. How many ways can I say this? I am a Bills fan. I love the Bills more than is probably healthy. I am starving for good QB play. If it's EJ, great! That would be fantastic. From what I've seen however, I think it is less than likely that he develops into our franchise QB. I have no ulterior motives here guys. And I haven't given up on him. I just don't think it's probable. And guess what? Only two other people have had the balls to say that he will probably be our clear cut opening day starter in 2017. So evidently, everyone else agrees with me except the LB get ball guy and you know who. Let me try this: What did you guys think of Bryce Brown last year? Pretty costly fumble against Kansas City huh? Couldn't get much going against the Jets or the Dolphins, right? Aha!! You HATE him. You have given up on him. You have labeled him a bust. You are telling everyone that there is no chance he ever develops into a reliable starting RB in this league. You are rooting against him. You have a predisposition against him and will be lining up with a proverbial pitchfork if he ever misses a hole. OR do you recognize he has some great tools but he needs to get his head right and put it together? Is it fair to say that if Bryce Brown turns into a stud this year and runs wild if McCoy gets hurt that that you would be happy? Like you wouldn't root against him, right? But is it also fair to say that you kind of don't see that happening? You sure now? You sure you don't hate him? Do you want to pull out any statistics about how he ran really well behind the right guard on second down in the third quarter last year to prove to me that he's actually already quite good and I'm a jerk for even being skeptical about him? You still have the Marrone card ya know. Or you can tell me that Adrian Peterson and Jamal Charles have had bad games too. Any of this registering? And as far as the guy who said that only 4-5 QB's have a 50%+ chance of being their team's starting QB in two years? What?

Dude I don't think EJ will succeed and I also haven't given up on him. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Dude no one, including FireChan, has given up on EJ completely. PLEASE stop putting words in everyone's mouths. Do you understand that there is a difference between being skeptical and saying someone is completely done.