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What can I say, I guess I'm the Brett Favre of TBD.

That's what people don't understand. Everyone's all, "well he looked decent in the two preseason games." But Sal and the other guy acknowledged that he looked decent in the two preseason games but said that unfortunately, he dug too big a hole for himself during camp. They both said that they and every single last person they've spoken with has EJ third. Not just that the coaches have him third on the depth chart, but that he was visibly the third best QB throughout camp to anyone who was paying any attention. They also said that unless something totally unforeseen takes place that there's no chance of him starting opening day. That is reality folks. Now, back to fantasy land...

God how I wish the EJ guys were listening to Sal on the John Murphy show right now. Him and the guy from Bills Digest are really laying it out for you. Someone tell me they're listening right now?

1. Of course you won't respond to my last post where I laid out your greatest hits. 2. You obviously don't know the difference between passer rating and QBR. 3. What was Cassel's passer rating (not QBR) in the game against Carolina? Nobody cares about passer rating in tiny little preseason snippets. It doesn't matter. 4. No, the scrimmage counted. He made a throw or two, everyone agreed he was the best of the three in limited action. I never denied that. I said DESPITE that, John Murphy made those comments AFTER the scrimmage. Wait, are you in denial that EJ is third in this QB battle? I had a bad case of loser denial myself- until the lacrosse team shoved a parking cone up my ass.

Alright enough with the scrimmage already. A few short days after the scrimmage, John Murphy, who is the biggest EJ homer of them all, said "the other two guys seem to be really progressing and learning the offense and I'm just not seeing that with EJ." So you can cherry pick a practice here or there but by and large, everyone knows that EJ Manuel was third before the Carolina game and has not done enough to move up the ladder as of yet. Maybe he will on Saturday. I will be in Yellowstone, you'll have to tell me all about it.

Correct. It's not what you think. This was a onetime opportunity to meet and talk football with someone who is very much in the know. It's certainly not a regular source (of which I have those too). I just didn't feel like cheapening the experience by starting a thread about it and then have people tell me they don't believe me and then have to prove it, etc. So I figured I'd just tell you what I know to be true. If you don't want to believe me, I'm perfectly comfortable with that.

Tell ya what. Although, again, I was the one who broke Mario Williams and have/had plenty of info on Doug Marrone leaving and have never led anyone astray on anything, I will tell everyone exactly where I got the Roman/Cassel scoop if it somehow comes out that that is not the case. I can also tell you that EJ Manuel is not part of the equation as far as who is starting opening day but you would think that would be fairly easy to ascertain at this point.

I'm willing to give him a pass on the NFC West thing as I truly believe he knows what division the Chiefs are in and it was a genuine typo. I take more issue with him BWAHAHAHAHAHA'ing me last year when I said the Bills had an elite defense and then telling me their defense wasn't really that good after several teams had their byes and the Bills hadn't so the Bills had given up more total yards than those teams and after several ill-fated attempts by me to explain it to him, he could not understand that you have to switch it to yards allowed per game to get the defensive rankings. Also that he said the Bills would have finished 12-4 last year had they stuck with EJ and let him play all season and then refused to respond to me when I politely asked him how far they would have gone in the playoffs because they would have had homefield in that case. And perhaps most egregiously, him not placing Andrew Luck in his top five young QB's to build a franchise around. But yeah, I give him a pass on the NFC West thing. Great olive branch post. I accept. And I agree with everything you wrote. All I want is to stop arguing but I cannot help myself when I see stuff written by people that needs to be called out. I am more optimistic about the QB situation than you are though. If the Bills can somehow escape the first three games 2-1, they are going to be in great shape.

I take it back then. How did you think EJ's overall performance was in the game? How about Tyrod?

Oh OK. So again, haven't seen the game but didn't they have it 4th down and EJ threw an incomplete pass in the end zone but they called it a PI to give them a new set of downs? Again, this makes zero difference to me in my evaluation of EJ Manuel. My understanding is that he played OK regardless.

That's it! That's all that needs to be said. But here we'll be five pages from now still arguing... Was it not? I still haven't watched the game, I've only seen the highlights. I have heard that from several people though. If that is not the case, I apologize.

He's being mean? As if Cassel threw a TD after being strip sacked and benefiting from a suspect PI call that the EJ guys wouldn't be using that as an excuse: "well OK, he threw a TD but..." I haven't heard anyone say that about EJ- I certainly haven't. Most people on here are just spinning everything to fit their own agenda. The fact of the matter is that the Bills- barring any more of these stupid ACL's that keep popping up everywhere- are going to be really good this year. All three QB's have looked better than I thought they would. Certainly better than the Manuel/Lewis/Tuel dumpster fire from the last two preseasons. We should all be happy knowing that it looks like the Bills just might receive competent QB play this year. All three guys have looked adequate. That's a good thing guys. But every single person with knowledge of the situation and every single person who has attended camp has EJ third. That's the reality. Sorry if that comes off as "mean."

OK, Cassel looked average at best in his two drives where every pass was right on the money (though many short), he looked poised in the pocket, got a bunch of first downs and moved the ball. Agreed. Let me ask you two questions: 1. No explanations, just give me one adjective right now to describe EJ's play in his nine possessions so far. 2. Do you mean to tell me that if those were EJ's only two possessions and he was 7-8 with a drop and a big gainer to Watkins that got called back and the backup kicker shanked a chip shot, that you would be telling everyone, "ehh I don't know guys, EJ looked average at best?" I wish you could understand that you are coming off as way more anti-Tyrod/Cassel than anyone has ever come off as anti-EJ.

I would objectively make a persuasive argument that Tyrod Taylor should start. I know preseason stats don't mean much. But as much as nobody is excited about the idea of Matt Cassel, in his two drives in the first preseason game he looked fine and it's a stretch to use those two drives to pan him. And of course if those were EJ Manuel's only two drives and he too went 7-8 with a drop, the EJ guys would've been hyping him up. That's all I'm saying.

Sorry if I'm not on here every waking moment. Yes, to remind you and your friend my stance on EJ, I think and hope that they keep him as the third string QB. I think he has shown enough to not get cut outright. And just stop with your assessment of Matt Cassel's preseason play. Again, he was 7 for 8 with a blatant drop and a big gainer that called back. He looked fine. Gay missed a chip shot. So essentially he yielded 3 points in two possessions. EJ Manuel has yielded 2 TD's in essentially a full game- 1 of which was made possible by a very suspect PI call. Congratulations. Everyone on planet Earth knows that if EJ had the two drives Cassel had that you'd be raving about it and telling everyone his passer rating for those two drives. I just ask that people try and remain objective. And as Kirby Jackson pointed out yesterday, all you guys do is make excuses for EJ's failures and excuses for Cassel's (albeit limited) success. So now, KC "coincidentally" made the playoffs because Denver was 4-12 that year. OK gotcha. The guy had 27 TD's and 7 INT's that year. As FireChan said yesterday, I too will eat my hat if EJ Manuel ever puts up those type of numbers in an NFL season. As if EJ Manuel won the staring job this year, had a great season, took the Bills to the playoffs and made the Pro Bowl (as Cassel did for KC in 2010) but New England went, say, 6-10, you would be like, "yeah well, 'coincidentally' New England had a down year this year..."

Yeah like I said, I can't imagine there is one player on the entire team who is overrated by the national media. I don't think Glenn is overrated by Bills fans though. He was REALLY good in 2012 and 2013 and then had a down year last year, which I think everyone is aware of. I have all the confidence in the world that he'll return to form this year. I think the line is gonna be just fine. That I'd agree with. Kiko might have even been overrated by the national media. I thought him being named to the NFL's top 100 players after his rookie year was kind of a stretch.

His career trajectory couldn't have been going any better prior to last year. Let's chalk it up to his mysterious illness and coaching (I know, I hate that excuse but everybody on the line regressed so maybe there's something to it). According to many, he's been the best player at all of camp right now, with the possible exception of Watkins.

I'm not sure any Bills are overrated in the real world but in Bills land, amongst Bills fans: Underrated: Woods, Bradham, Carpenter, Jordan Gay's value vs. keeping a backup LB who plays ST almost exclusively, maybe Preston Brown a little, maybe even Jerry Hughes a little. Overrated: Gilmore, Aaron Williams- two guys who have been listed as underrated. I feel like everyone is hip to Aaron Williams being a good safety but he's not making the Pro Bowl anytime soon. And Gilmore is kind of enigmatic. He has flashed elite level talent and I am confident he can put together an entire season's worth of elite play but he really still hasn't. He's not a top ten CB quite yet and I feel like a lot of people think he already is. I won't include Eric Wood because now everyone is piling on him. He had a bad year last year, we get it. Let's see what he does this year. I'm not nearly ready to write him off. Dareus is overrating himself if he thinks he deserves Suh money. What does this even mean? Let's keep this one a non-QB thread guys. It's refreshing to not have to talk about EJ Manuel for a minute.

I don't think people who "rant against EJ" necessarily think that Cassel is great. Look, you mention Kelly Holcomb. I realize that's a name that is always sure to draw a lot of laughs on here but Kelly Holcomb was decent in 2005. If we can get Kelly Holcomb 2005 level of play, the Bills will make the playoffs. EJ Manuel has not achieved Kelly Holcomb 2005 or Matt Cassel 2008/2010 level of play at this stage in his career and there is no guarantee that he will. Again, this doesn't have to be that complicated: just go take the job from Matt Cassel/Tyrod Taylor. If Cassel sucks so bad and EJ has all this magic upside then it shouldn't be that hard.

Look, every beat reporter who has attended camp would tell you EJ is third. John Murphy would tell you EJ is third. Sal C currently has it at 45/45/10. That is being generous. I can tell you with the utmost certainty that EJ is not part of the equation to start opening day. This is not detracting. This is being a realist. You are doing whatever the opposite of detracting is.

I give up.

Please stop with the "haters" accusations. Everyone is acknowledging that he is improved over last preseason. Can you acknowledge that he is still running third in this competition? I don't think anyone is hating. I pretty much laid out where he stands for you: better than last year, still not as good as Matt Cassel.

That just sucks.

No, that's the point- Roman wants Cassel to be the starter. At least as of last week. And I understand what you're saying in terms of yes, everyone wants one of the other guys to emerge because we know what Cassel is, but evidently neither of them have emerged enough for him not to want Cassel to be his starter right now. And again, for all I know, Cassel will implode on Saturday and Taylor will be lights out and he will grasp the job hands down. That could just as easily be the case. But my guess is that if there is no clear cut leader after Saturday, Cassel starts week 1.