metzelaars_lives

I was at that game too. It was definitely the best Bills road game I've ever attended.

What a surprise. I check in today and more of the same. The same exact people who blindly and baselessly defended a QB to no end whose legacy will fall decidedly short of those of Losman and Edwards are on here cherry picking and nitpicking a few negative statistical indicators and then ignoring all the positive stats for a guy who has played nine games as a pro and is playing at a level higher than any Bills QB since Bledsoe. I would ask those people what they saw in Manuel's game through 14 games that led them to remain encouraged about his long term chances and what they see through Taylor's game through 9 games that leave them bitter, cynical and skeptical about him ever developing into a franchise QB. And you can't say "this isn't about EJ" because you were the ones telling everyone that "we couldn't know anything about EJ" through 14 starts and "he had shown flashes" and "had a ceiling." Taylor was a better college QB than Manuel, has certainly shown bigger and better flashes and has played less games. So as far as your analysis of QB's goes, this is very much about EJ.

Why does every Bills QB have to be so polarizing? I thought it was just an EJ thing. EJ sucked plain as day but there was a fringe contingent that insisted "we couldn't know yet" and he had this magical upside because he is tall or something. Now, Taylor is a decent starting NFL QB, most everyone agrees with this, no one is deeming him the answer yet but that same fringe contingent is at it in full force once again, this time insisting that he sucks. You would think that everyone could just agree that the guy has exceeded most expectations, he's got some pretty damn good numbers, maybe needs to be more decisive and the jury is still out. I think 99% of us would agree on all that. What are people even arguing about?

So their red zone efficiency is middle of the pack for the season. OK. As if Manuel was the QB all season, was 5th in passer rating, 6th in comp % and 7th in in Y/A, you would ignore those numbers and cherry pick his red zone efficiency. Of course you wouldn't. You would be on a victory campaign telling us all about how Manuel has 14 TD's to 4 INT's and everything is the defense and coaches' fault. I swear, there are still about 4-5 of you who were wrong about Manuel so now you are hell bent on proving to everyone that "see, Taylor isn't good either." For what purpose is beyond me. But it's so blatantly obvious to everyone else.

Once again, straw man alert. No one is worshipping at Taylor's proverbial alter. Find me one person who has said anything more than, "hey, he's exceeded my expectations." No one thinks he's a top ten QB in the NFL (even though many of his stats would indicate as much). I think he's better than EJ (well of course he is). Does that mean I am a member of his church? I don't get it.

I don't think anyone thinks that (although Joe Ferguson wasn't that good, he was just durable). In another post you say something about "if you think Taylor is so good..." I don't think anyone thinks he's "so good." All anyone is saying is that he's better than expected, he's already a middle-of-the-pack starting NFL QB and he's better than what we've had in some time (which isn't saying much if anything). You're creating a straw man who is going around saying that Taylor is some sort of savior when no one is saying that. I think we'd probably agree as far as how good Taylor is! You expected more out of a sixth round pick who has played nine games? That is insane. And every team has non offensive TD's, that doesn't mean anything at all. Guys, anyone who is disappointed in what we've gotten from the QB position this year simply doesn't remember where their head was at in, say, May. Everyone should be disappointed in the coaching and the defense.

Just for some quick perspective, we're talking about a guy who, as we sit here, is 5th in the NFL in passer rating, 6th in completion % and 7th in yards/attempt. Three questions: 1. Does anyone not think that for a guy who has played nine career games as a starter, that that aint too shabby? 2. If someone told you that our starting QB would be putting up those numbers prior to the season, would you take it? 3. If EJ Manuel was putting up those numbers this season, does anyone really believe that the people on here who are nitpicking his game- who are of course the same people who were making EJ's last stand a few short months ago- would not be citing those statistics and lauding his improvement?

I am always the first to say that teams overvalue their own players. However, I think you're taking this too far in the other direction. More than one outlet prior to the season cited the Bills as having the 1st or 2nd best roster aside from the QB position in the NFL. And the production we have gotten from the QB position has wildly exceeded expectations. Their record is worse than their talent.

The offense is improved from a team that went 9-7 last season. The defense is largely the same group. They brought in a guy who was supposed to make the defense even better. You tell me.

Agreed but the 49ers are a bad example. Their roster has been decimated since Harbaugh left. They've actually overachieved this season.

This couldn't be further from the truth. All you need to do is look at the last two weeks. We were clearly able to move the football and play with two good football teams on the road. The difference is that each of those two teams are more fine tuned than the Bills. We make the crucial turnover, the dumb penalty, the missed xp, failed challenges/non-challenges, lack of adjustments, etc. Call me crazy but aside from the extra points, I attribute this stuff to coaching.

Who said Taylor was good in the second half? Taylor not playing particularly well in the second half today and him being an average QB (which is all I have said) are not mutually exclusive concepts.

I'd like to keep this going. In fact, I don't want to argue at all. I think you are an intelligent poster and I'd like to come to an agreement. We're both Bills fans. I just want to know what you disagree with me about. Let me ask you this- where do you think he ranks among starting NFL QB's right now? I'd put him middle of the pack, which again, I think is a pleasant surprise and more than I expected. I am not a "fanboi" as you called it. I also believe that if Manuel was performing at the level Taylor is that you would probably be expressing more enthusiasm than you are about Taylor. If you tell me I'm wrong, I'll take you at your word. OK so to be clear, saying that Taylor is a middle of the pack QB necessarily makes me a "fanboi." Hey man, I tried. Go Bills! And wait, when in God's name did I accuse you of being anti-Buffalo. I don't know man. We might have to agree to disagree on this one (even though I still don't know what we disagree about because you won't answer any of my questions).

Yeah I've been to at least one Bills home game every year since 1985 (when I was 6) even though I've lived in Denver since 2002. I've seen em in like ten opposing stadiums. I had seasons from 1987-1995 and went to all of those playoff games. I don't think I've missed a snap of a Bills game since the 1980's. That game today was harrowing and it had nothing to do with being right or wrong about Taylor. I just want them to freaking win. And anyway, you didn't even tell me what you disagree with me about. Do you think he is an average starting NFL QB? I don't think he's elite or anything. I think, like you, he is what he is. Not trying to argue here man. I just think you are a little smarmy sometimes (as I certainly was about Manuel) about Taylor. The difference is that I was right about Manuel.

I don't want to talk about EJ anymore. I would agree- the second half against Jacksonville is the best he's ever looked- ever. I would disagree that other than that, there has been much of any "really good." Go look at his career game log on ESPN to refresh your memory and tell me when he's ever looked "really good." He's looked like a potential competent starting QB in 3-4 games out of the 16 he's played. That's it.

Pray tell, why am I the worst kind of fan? I know exactly where Taylor stands. I didn't even think about Taylor until I came on this website. I thought about the challenges, I thought about the two turnovers, I thought about the missed extra point. I was thing about playoff scenarios, running the table, rooting against Pittsburgh here. I AM A BILLS FAN. I was thinking the same thing I thought last week- that they are simply not refined. They do all the little things wrong that the Patriots and Chiefs did right. Meanwhile, Taylor is already a middle of the pack NFL QB. That's what he is. In fact, his numbers would tell you he's better than that. But either way, going into this season, if someone told you that a clearcut starter would emerge and he would give you average NFL starting QB play, you would've done backflips. We all thought that our defense would be so elite that that would make us a Super Bowl contender. Agreed?

Some of y'all act like those are the only two times he sucked. For one, he sucked throughout that entire Houston game. He sucked the week before against San Diego. He sucked beyond imagination against Tampa Bay. He stunk to high heaven at New York that year. He has literally had at least five games where he has sucked throughout far worse than Taylor has ever looked. It's over.

Wait, you wrote this today? Mary, mother of God. You people still really exist.

You're still doing the anti-Tyrod thing huh? Pretty cool. The Bills could run the table but even if they did, they're still gonna need some help now. I'm just so sick of it being week 11 and having to talk about running the table.

Well at this point it doesn't really matter because once again, just like last year, Hogan is making big catches in games that count in the meat of the season and once again, just like last season, Goodwin will not be wearing a Bills uniform in a big game that actually counts on Sunday. The 2015 Goodwin charade was over before it started. And it's too bad because he made some great plays as a rookie in 2013.

Yeah he's doing his best to match the production that Goodwin was giving us lo these many years. At no point was he behind Goodwin on any depth chart. He was absolutely going to get reps this year one way or another. He's good. The play where he got and then gave up the first down was terrible. My guess is he learns from it and you'll never see anything like that again.

Or throw it to him when he's not necessarily wide open. In fairness they tried that on deep balls twice last night. But either way he needs ten targets every game. I wonder what your/the perception of Watkins would be if he was on the Saints or something. I would say that catch he made last night was pretty elite.

So the conversation has shifted from us being certain/paranoid that Roman gets a head coaching job somewhere else next season?

I was also thinking AC joint, only because it's happened to me twice. I guess we'll find out.