metzelaars_lives

Well, Wyoming was the only D1 team to offer him a scholarship, I know that.

As someone who watched every game he played live, yes, this is a huge, huge point that I cannot stress enough and you would think people would be more interested in understanding. As a Bills fan, I can remember a game where JP Losman dumped the ball off to Anthony Thomas like 9 times and he ended up with like 9 catches for 36 yards. Worked well for Losman's completion percentage that day. I think it was at Jacksonville.

Todd McShay knows way more about football than you. Like, way, way more. And Carson Wentz couldn't even play in D1? You believe that s***? Well McShay and Kiper have maintained that he is a top 1 or 2 QB from last year through today. And virtually every mock draft any of us has seen has him, at worst, as the fourth QB off the board. He appears to be one of only two QB's in contention for the first overall pick. So what am I missing here? Haha. Not the case, buddy. He was named the opening day starter and suffered a season-ending shoulder injury in the first quarter of week 1. At least have your facts straight. This is a fair post and almost kind of my point. I don't take any issue with people hedging their bets. Again, I myself am not over-the-top gung ho Josh Allen. I just can't deal with the morons who are sure as day that he's gonna be a bust as if they know something that people who know way more than them, don't know.

Ahh meme guy. Glad to have you. Also how is saying that a guy who most analysts have as the #2 or 3 QB, is my #2 or 3 QB, a “crusade?” Sounds like anyone who doesn’t think Josh Allen will definitely be a bust is on a crusade.

Yes dude! Tanner Gentry was INSANE in 2016! Jacob Hollister was playing in the Super Bowl for the Patriots. Chase Roullier was the starting center for the Redskins by year’s end. And Brian Hill was playing on MNF for the Bengals. All gone. That 2016 team is one of my favorite sports teams ever.

Again, he WAS good in 2016. I think a really key point is that his 2016 and 2017 seasons are entirely different entities. They were completely different football teams. That’s why I don’t like the blanket statements about what type of college QB he was or wasn’t. It’s more nuanced than that. There isn’t a person on the planet who didn’t think he had a GREAT 2016 for a first year starter. And to those wondering why he “regressed” in 2017, I’m just trying to offer some clarity on the subject.

I sensed some smarminess in your post so I responded in a smarmy manner. No disrespect.

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!

What did I say that is debatable? I realize calling him "elusive" isn't a "fact." But everything I wrote is accurate. You are not going to find a more accurate assessment of Josh Allen than what I just posted (also not a fact, I suppose).

Yes! Someone gets it. I'm not trying to say that I know he's going to be good. I'm trying to say that none of us know and to the people who are so certain that he's gonna be a bust, I'm really tired of hearing from you because you won't face the music if you are wrong and you will just go blabbering about the next topic.

Not trying to convert anyone. Just trying to tell you that if everyone in the football world- scouts, GM's analysts, etc.- likes Josh Allen but you, a fan listening to WGR and calling in on the whiner line, does not, it might be time for you to take a look in the mirror and try and understand why people who know way more about football than you, do like him.

Yes. But again, he was good in 2016. A key part of the Josh Allen debate that no one wants to talk about is that 2016 and 2017 were very different seasons. He was excellent for a first year college QB when he did have talent around him- enough, again, to be named the MWC preseason player of the year. If he had talent around him last year, his numbers would've gone up again. He didn't and they didn't. It's not that hard to understand. It's not like he got worse at football.

Thank you for reading.

So I moved to Denver, from Buffalo, in 2002 and almost immediately adopted Wyoming as my college team (pretty much because I think they have the best uniforms in sports). Anyway I have ramped up my fandom in recent years and, at this point, am a pretty diehard fan. In short, I have watched every game Josh Allen has played as a college QB. I have driven up to Laramie to see them/him play four times (three times in 2016 and once last year). Incidentally, they were 3-1 in those games and he played good to great in all of them. The win against Boise State (who was undefeated and ranked in the teens at the time) in 2016 was one of the best football games I've ever attended in my life (the greatest comeback against the Oilers obviously being #1). So this is NOT a Josh Allen excuse thread, nor am I a Josh Allen "fanboy." And full disclosure, I probably have him as the #2 or 3 QB on my board (you can call me a Mayfield fanboy if you want). This is a thread containing FACTS for all the Biff from Tonawandas who think they suddenly know more about football than NFL scouts, analysts, GM's and coaches. Just trying to dispel a lot of disinformation floating around. FACT CHECK: Josh Allen "wasn't good" in college: FALSE The 2016 Wyoming squad was loaded with offensive talent. Literally five of their key offensive players were seniors who played with NFL teams into preseason last year and four are currently on NFL rosters. That being said, it was Josh Allen's first year as a college QB. With all of those guys as juniors the previous season, they went 2-10. With Allen, they ended up 8-6 but were 8-3 before losing a meaningless game against New Mexico and then two nailbiters against San Diego State (MWC Championship game) and BYU (bowl game). He was very good. He went from an unheralded JuCo transfer to a guy being thrown around as the #1 pick in this draft halfway through his first college season. Really ask yourself, Biff, if a guy could do that without being "good." His completion percentage was lower than you might like but he had a propensity, especially in 2016, to throw the ball downfield A LOT. For perspective, Brian Hill (now on the Bengals), played most every down, was second in the nation in rushing that year and is a very elusive back. He had NINE RECEPTIONS ALL SEASON. Ask yourself, if Hill caught 40 balls and Allen's completion percentage was 66% instead of 56% in 2016, would we even be having that conversation? Even with his 56% completion percentage, he was named the 2nd team MWC QB (Brett Rypien, Mark's son, had better numbers, but few would argue Allen wasn't a more impactful player that year) as well as the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017. Not bad for not being good, huh? FACT CHECK: Josh Allen had no weapons in 2017: TRUE I was on here trying to tell anyone who would listen, prior to the 2017 season, that Josh Allen's numbers would be way down. It's easy for you, Biff, to call that an excuse but here's a little perspective: he lost his top two running backs, his top two receivers, his tight end and his center (again, four of these guys are in the NFL now). Their leading rusher went from a guy who finished 2nd in FBS to a freshman who was LITERALLY converted from a linebacker right before the season started. They struggled a ton on offense in 2017. Allen's numbers did not impress. Anyone who follows Wyoming football could've told you that would be the case. All of their skill position players were unheralded freshmen and sophomores playing their first college football games, save for two guys who played sparingly in 2016 and aren't very good (see: CJ Johnson's drop of a beautiful deep ball for a would-be TD against Iowa in week 1). So when Biff is on here telling you that Josh Allen struggled against Iowa and Oregon, well, no s***. Of course he did. And you know what, as someone who follows the program, his attitude literally could not have been better all last season. Not once did he even come remotely close to making an excuse for his numbers or complaining about the glaring lack of talent around him. Oh yeah, Wyoming was 8-3 with Josh Allen in 2017 and 0-2 without him. Oh yeah part 2, watch his three TD passes from the bowl game against Central Michigan and tell me how many PRO QB's make all three of those throws. FACT CHECK: There is more to Josh Allen than his "strong arm" and "big hands": TRUE Did you know that in addition to having the best arm we've maybe ever seen coming out of college football that Josh Allen is unbelievably strong, elusive, can juke and bowl over defenders, and makes throws on the run and across his body as well as any prospect I've ever seen? Well that happens to be the case. The Cam Newton comparisons are not crazy. Watch his highlights from the first San Diego State game, the UNLV game from 2016- hell, before you go spouting off, watch a freaking highlight tape of the guy. FACT CHECK: The comparisons to JaMarcus Russell are beyond insulting: TRUE Go on youtube.com and watch a video of former teammates talking about JaMarcus Russell skipping meetings, being utterly disengaged, eating copious amounts of s****y food to the point where he weighed in at 300 lbs., etc. Also guessing JaMarcus Russell didn't score a 37 on the wonderlic. Josh Allen is as good of a teammate and leader as you will find in the college football ranks. Will all of this translate into him being a great pro? I don't know. I absolutely see the bust potential. He is still unrefined. He would be best-suited, in my opinion, going to a team like San Diego. He absolutely has a gunslinger mentality. But to all you Biff from Tonawandas out there, so sure of yourselves (God does this remind me of when half the board was mocking Carolina for taking Newton #1), I really, really hope you eat a fistful of crow and that you have the sacks to show up and admit you were wrong. An acceptable stance is, "gee I'm not buying the Allen hype but if an NFL team sees it, I gotta think they know more than I do." That's fair. But the unbelievable levels of ignorance on this board, ie. "I wouldn't take him in the fifth round; I will no longer be a Bills fan if they take him, etc"... dude just give it a rest already. PLEASE. I am so over it. At this point, I am so sick of hearing from the naysayers that I will be rooting for Josh Allen no matter who he gets drafted by, and that includes the Jets. Not the Dolphins though. Go Bills!

So what about 2016 when he was far and away the first or second best QB in the MWC- in his first season as a college QB- and was named the MWC preseason player of the year prior to last season, before losing literally every last one of his skill position players? Does that count or no? Not a thing. Played GREAT in 2016 in against Boise State, San Diego State twice, good against BYU and GREAT against Central Michigan in the bowl this year. Yes, he had difficulty against power five teams this past season with unheralded freshmen as his skill position players playing their first college football games, you are correct. But nothing matters anymore so whatever.

What game did you go to? I’ve seen him play in person four times and he was good to great in all four.

Yes, that is true. However, you don't know that he can't throw the ball accurately, nor that he has poor decision-making. He was a college QB for two years. In his first year, he took over for a team that went 2-10 the year before, took them to the MWC Championship game and a pretty big bowl game, going 8-5. He was named the 2nd team MWC QB and the MWC player of the year going into this last season. His second year, he lost every skill position player he had- four of whom played in the NFL. Of course his numbers weren't going to be as good. I can't wait for this to be over. When Josh Allen is good, do you guys have to face any sort of music? This is so tiring. Biff from Tonawanda knows more than NFL scouts and executives, I get it.

J**** C***** enough already.

The glory years offensive lines are not regarded as "all time great" offensive lines. They were very good lines- some of the best in the league- and were able to stick together for a while, which certainly helped with continuity and familiarity. But I don't think they were ever considered the best line in the league. And I also think that too often not enough credit has been given to the Bills lines in the past decade. The line of 2015-16 was a top 5 unit in the NFL. As was their line in 2012. Their line was actually pretty good back when they had Jason Peters in 2006-07. Doesn't mean I'd take any of them over Wolford-Ritcher-Hull-Davis-Ballard; just saying the difference in where they ranked relative to the rest of the league then vs. say, 2015-16, might not be as great as you think. And yes, we can agree to disagree.

John Davis was a serviceable starter. Let's not get carried away. That Bills line was very good but it was never far and away the best line in the league or anything like that. It was a top 5-10 line throughout that era. The Bills' line over much of the last decade has also been a top 5-10 line. We have a tendency to canonize guys because they played for the Super Bowl teams but what would Jim Ritcher be, really, if he never played in the Super Bowl? Steve Freeman was a nice safety for the Bills for a long time but never came near a Super Bowl. That doesn't affect my idea of how good of a player he was. The Glenn/Incognito/Wood line was very, very good as well. But if the OP's point is that they have their work cut out for them NOW, then of course I agree with him. They like this McDermott kid a lot. Oh and by the way, he protected Josh Rosen at UCLA.

Dude.

The Bills don't have an offensive line right now so it's a moot point. But the Bills have had a consistently good to very good offensive line for the last five-six years or so, despite half of the fans always insisting that their offensive line always sucks even when it's good. You can't lead the league in rushing and YPC for two consecutive years and not have a good line. In 2012, Spiller averaged 6.0 YPC and they were the least sacked team in the league. They were good then too. But yes, this upcoming season will be interesting.

That's what you pray about? Yeah I'm sure that's at the top of God's priority list.

Why don't you put up his numbers from 2016 as a redshirt sophomore, his first year starting as a college QB, when his ENTIRE group of skill position players (yes, literally every single one) were seniors and he was named the first team all-MWC QB and led to his being named the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017? He also led the Cowboys to an 8-5 record, a MWC championship game and a decent bowl appearance against a ranked BYU team, both of which they narrowly lost, a season after they went 2-10 with all the same guys as juniors (different QB).

He responded basically by saying that "guys used to be tougher" but didn't tell when the golden era for QB play was.