metzelaars_lives

Look I think Tebow sucks more than anyone on planet Earth. That being said, I live in Denver and out of his 14 starts, he had a few good ones. I remember him playing pretty well in a game at Minnesota. Again, his TD-INT ratio is better than Manuel's. I think EJ Manuel has played better than Tebow in his career- albeit not by much- but if you are allowed to say Tebow sucks after 14 starts (which I would agree with), why am I not allowed to say, "hey my gut is that it's not happening for EJ Manuel." Cause that's really all I have maintained throughout this whole thing.

OK sarcasm off: nor is the verdict in on Tebow. Similarly however, I would be very skeptical of Tebow's chances of becoming a franchise QB. Truthfully, I think he has less of a chance than Manuel (even though Tebow's W-L record is better AND his TD-INT ratio is better, but that's neither here nor there). My point is that despite them each only having started 14 games as a pro, I reserve the right to formulate an opinion as to what I perceive to be their odds of becoming a franchise QB. I think those odds are slim for both of them. Do you think it's fair to assess Tebow's odds of becoming a franchise QB? If so, how and why is this a different scenario than Manuel?

They clearly should be. I'm not saying he is the answer, I'm just saying that there's no way of knowing how good he's gonna be because he's only started 14 games. Anyone who says otherwise is just a Tebow hater.

Ha that's funny, he has started exactly 14 games, Yes agreed, the jury is still out. Especially considering his coaches almost certainly encouraged him not to make too many mistakes. Doesn't matter. All that matters is W-L and the QB is pretty much solely responsible for whether or not a team wins. The kid won games- including a playoff game.

Not saying they would have but it would have been in play if all they had to do was win two home games.

Yes let's.

Dude I just laid out a perfectly nice, non-controversial post and you completely ignored it. Read what I said about EJ. Do we agree as to where we stand?

Robert Woods, obviously. Agreed with your whole post. Hogan will see plenty of reps though.

Ooooohhh you got him good!

What about him? Steve Johnson- the 2015 version- would be the 5th best WR on our roster at the moment. He was really good in 2010 for a while and then good in 2011 and 2012. His play dropped significantly in 2013. And the 49ers, who need all the help they can get at WR, saw fit to cut him outright. What am I missing here?

PLEASE stop calling people trolls. Your posts are so weird sometimes that lots of people think you may be trolling. But yes, let's be friends. Here is the end of the argument until training camp, OK: You think the jury is out on EJ. You're not saying he is going to be the franchise QB but you think there is no way of knowing for sure; it's still way too early. If pressed though, yes, you believe (you have stated) that EJ Manuel will be the Bills starting QB on opening day in 2017. I agree with you that the jury is still out. However, I respectfully opine, based on what I have seen thus far, that the odds are rather slim that EJ develops into a franchise QB. I would give the odds of him being our starting QB on opening day in 2017 at about 5:1. It would surprise me if he won the job from Matt Cassel in fact. I sincerely hope he does. But I do not agree with some of you that two years is still way too early to make any judgments whatsoever on a QB's future success. Have some QB's looked one way after two years and their careers ended up drastically different? Yes of course. That's all.

Dude football is a team game. Much more so than most other sports in fact. It takes 22 guys. You cannot simply point out W-L record all the time. The Bills were 9-7 last year with putrid QB play. People (including myself) are even more excited about the team's prospects this year and there is, at the moment, no reason to be more optimistic about the QB position. Russell Wilson, as much as I like him, wouldn't have been 12-4 on the Jaguars last season. Regardless, Alex Smith was 30-46 for 378 yards, 4 TD's and 0 picks in the game. If you had to bet your life, would you bet that EJ has a game like that ever? The Cardinals absolutely could have gone to the Super Bowl if Palmer kept playing at the level he was playing and they got homefield- as they were on track to.

Alex Smith played very well in that game. They had lost so many players to injury that Indianapolis was able to score at will. Not to mention their game plan was more than a little faulty in the second half. Smith did not start playing poorly in the second half. I actually watched the replay of that game on NFLN within the last year and was very impressed with the way he looked throughout that game.

Understanding that it takes QB's time to develop and being skeptical about EJ Manuel after two years in the league are not mutually exclusive. Also I find it highly interesting that the "you can't possibly know anything about a QB after two years" crowd are the same ones who like to mock Geno Smith and act like, well of course Manuel is better than Geno Smith.

Well aware. I can't help it at this point.

80% of the people on here believe that EJ Manuel is going to "succeed?" You spend so much time on this website- do you even read what others are posting? We agree that the verdict is not quite in. You do not agree with me that I am allowed to formulate any opinion whatsoever based on what I've seen. In your and CBiscuit's world, there's simply no way of knowing, we haven't seen nearly enough, 14 games, Marrone is now an assistant head coach with Jacksonville, etc. That's really the only thing we disagree on: I am skeptical about the prospects of his success, you are saying there is no way to have an opinion on the prospects of his success. Are we on the same page? But one thing I think you agreed with me on was that a good barometer of his success would be whether or not EJ Manuel will be the Bills' starting QB on opening day in 2017. You said you thought he would be. I myself do not. Why don't you start a poll asking that very question and see if 80% of the people agree with you.

You can tell if a CB is good right away but it takes three years to pass any sort of judgment on a safety? Andrew Luck has come crashing down to earth? Russell Wilson had a fine season last year and certainly did not play emoticon laughably bad in the Super Bowl. It is indisputable that Manuel has more talent than Tannehill? Why because he's bigger and can thrown the ball farther? Can he? He's not any better of a runner. What about the ability to read defenses and throw the ball accurately? Does that factor in to one's talent? While I agree that the verdict is not quite in, it is not "nonsense" to have an opinion on the prospects of his success. I have one. You do not apparently. If he sucks again this year, am I allowed to say I told you so or is it complete random chance how well he plays this year?

What are you talking about? Like seriously, I have no idea what your post means in the context of this thread.

I have stated numerous times that the verdict is not in yet, I would agree with that. But I think I have seen enough to formulate the opinion that I don't think it's happening for EJ. Most every Bills fan I know feels that way. If he came out this year, won the job, looked great, won games, put up numbers and appeared to be the QB we've been looking for- stranger things have happened. However it's OK for some people to say that the odds of that happening appear unlikely. Is that fair? I agree with just about everything you say but the one thing I would debate is that there's no way that Tannehill (and I did not watch him play this year when that was going on) looked as bad as Manuel did against San Diego and Houston. No way. Virtually everyone on here agreed moving on from EJ was the right thing to do after that Houston game. And certainly everyone was on board after Orton looked solid against Detroit the following week. And again, it's so important to consider and yet never considered by the "14 ganmes" crowd, that Manuel was absolutely horrid all throughout camp and the preseason. Horrid. Was Tannehill? I don't remember reading that.

Those are actually Tannehill's numbers through his first 13 games but point taken (he had 10 TD's through his first 14). Did Ryan Tannehill show up and perform so incredibly poorly in his second offseason and preseason that his team scrambled to go find a washed up veteran to back him up/start? I think one major point here that the "14 games" crowd continues to overlook is that only reason he has only played 14 games is because he sucked so bad last year that the coaching staff (yes the coaching staff that is now in Jacksonville, we get it) wouldn't let him sniff the field even after it became apparent that said washed up veteran sucked too. By contrast, Tannehill took every snap and threw for 24 TD's and almost 4,000 yards in his second year. So if EJ Manuel sucks once again this year and gets yanked after 4 games again in favor of Matt Cassel, do you guys get to tell everyone that EJ Manuel has only played 18 games and then compare his stats to Tannehill through 18 games? And meanwhile, Tannehill is throwing for over 4,000 yards again in his 4th complete season?

Don't get too excited. He calls everyone a troll. I'm not sure he understands what it means.

Being a diehard Griffs hoops fan, I am really looking forward to seeing what he's got. He was a good but not great basketball player. May have been like 3rd team MAAC his senior year.

Ahh we got ourselves a Cassel "hater." I think you're failing to understand that while Manuel's upside may in fact be higher than Cassel's (I'd certainly agree with that), his downside may in fact be worse than what you're going to get out of Cassel. In fact, he has yet to show that he is capable of playing at a level that Cassel has played at in this very league. Let's just all let it play out. But if Manuel completely blows again in camp and the preseason and everyone in the world is saying that Cassel looks better, then what? Because that is an extremely possible if not likely scenario.

Why would you cry that a QB we drafted at 50 beat out 3 NFL veterans to win the starting job? That would lead me to believe they'd have found their guy finally. This would be the best case scenario.

No he's not. Two of those QB's have proven to be very mediocre over their careers with brief flashes of pretty good play. Two we know absolutely nothing about. One has shown to be a capable backup in limited opportunities. One has shown to pretty much suck for the most part. That one is EJ Manuel. Here we go.