metzelaars_lives

Really? I disagree. Every time I watch Hard Knocks I'm always surprised at how down to earth and cool most players seem. I feel like there is a stereotype about NFL players because of the Ray Rice and Greg Hardy situations but the vast majority of them are just regular guys. I also feel like if I hadn't watched every season of Hard Knocks I wouldn't feel this way. I don't know, maybe they just show the nice guys on the show.

Hey you could be right. That's fair. I think Bills fans would be doing cartwheels though if they knew they would be getting QB play at the level that Carson Palmer played at last year. And I think with that level of QB play, the Bills are undoubtedly a playoff team right now. And once you get to the playoffs- and especially if you get to host a few games- then who knows?

Who are you? And don't say "your worst nightmare."

Tell me one thing that I wrote that you ether disagree with or deem uninformed?

This is getting ridiculous. I actually agree with Bills fan 4 ever for once in our lives that yes, in a perfect world, Kevin Kolb would have been the QB to start the 2013 season and EJ would have a year to study/develop. HOWEVER, after he was forced into action in 2013 and actually looked decent at times during that season, he was unequivocally, absolutely, 100% viewed as THE GUY going into the 2014 season. There can be no debate about that whatsoever. The fact of the matter is that he was so glaringly and alarmingly ill-prepared last year that they had to go out and sign Orton. And it became very apparent after the San Diego and Houston games that Orton would give them a better chance to win. No one had it in for EJ last season and Marrone, despite him now coaching in Jacksonville (which always get lots of laughs around these parts), absolutely made the right decision switching to Orton when he did. Should he have given Manuel another shot late in the season when it was apparent that Orton sucked too? Probably, yes. Certainly in the New England game. But Marrone was obsessed with finishing with a winning record to buoy his resume. Nothing I have said here should or could possibly be debated. Yet it will be met with some sort of condescending response accusing me of trolling or "hating," I am sure.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. I think the plan last year all along was to have EJ be the guy, as evidenced by going into the offseason with Lewis and Tuel all alone backing him up. Based on the sporadic flashes he showed in his rookie year, I was comfortable with that plan. EJ was Marrone's guy, of course he wanted him to start. But then last offseason, EJ looked like burning dog poo throughout virtually every practice and every preseason game- so much so that Marrone and Whaley got in shouting matches in front of the players and then had to bring in a washed up veteran out of absolute sheer desperation and necessity. And EJ was still the starter. But then after two successful game manager performances and two games in which he looked about as bad as an NFL QB can possibly look, they turned to Orton. Believe me when I tell you, that was not their plan. Their plan was to have EJ be the man, all day long. He will get one more chance this year, although this is the first time the job will not be handed to him. I, for one, would be surprised if he won the job from even the likes of Matt Cassel. That is just my opinion though and I sincerely hope I am wrong. Those four guys are four guys you could win a Super Bowl with (Dalton would have to be asked to do a bit less) with a dominant roster around them. That is exactly the level of QB play the Bills need to get this season as they DO have a dominant roster everywhere else. The Cardinals COULD have (no, not would have) won the Super Bowl with Palmer last season had he not gotten hurt.

He is a guy that a team can say, "yes this guy is our starting QB, we are comfortable with that." That right there puts him in the top 20 because there aren't more than 20 guys in the whole league that fit that description. And I don't think he's that great either. But you don't luck your way to the numbers he put up last year, you just don't. I think Bills fans are also a little biased on this particular thread because Tannehill has played some of his worst games against the Bills. And lastly, the "Tannehill has hit his ceiling, this I can assure you" while "EJ has this magical upside" people sound more loony than the Jehova's Witness guys who literally just knocked on my door while I was in the middle of typing this. Yes that just happened.

This is just such a stupid topic. If you polled Dolphins fans and asked them if they would trade a first round draft pick who didn't even start playing quarterback until his senior year of college (yet was drafted higher than EJ Manuel), has started every single game his first three years while his stats have improved immensely each year to the point that in his third season he threw for 4,000+ yards, 27 TD's and 12 INT's for EJ freaking Manuel, literally zero of them would make this trade. And when I say zero, I mean like not one person in the whole world. This thread has really exposed how jaded and biased some of you can be. It's just a ridiculous thread. Hey pal (remember we're friends now), saying that EJ Manuel was benched in favor of Kyle Orton and you don't see him winning the job vs. Cassel, doesn't make you a troll, it doesn't make you a "hater," nor does it mean you are on your period. Let's just all let things play out and a whole bunch of us are going to be able to say "I told you so" and a whole bunch of us are going to eat crow. In the meantime there is no sense in arguing about it anymore.

Now I'm kind of lost- you tell me I can't use "what I've seen" but you are using absolutely nothing measurable or quantifiable and pretty much telling me that EJ has all these intangibles. Sounds like we both just flat out have opinions. We agree that Tannehill is not a top ten QB. OK. We can agree (I would hope) that Tannehill is already a top 20 QB. We would disagree that EJ Manuel can be a top ten QB. I don't think he will be a top 20 QB. Can he be as good as Tannehill is already? Yes, I suppose it's possible. But again, would you bet even odds that EJ Manuel ever throws for 4,000 yards and 27 TD's in a single season? Really, would ya? I guess we'll see, right?

I'm not sure you're winning anything. I don't even know what argument you're attempting to make. You're invoking QBR- Tannehill's QBR (not that I think QBR is the be-all-end-all stat myself) has been 50, 46 and 59. EJ Manuel's has been 42 and 20- albeit in limited opportunities- albeit, in his second season, as a result of his own poor play. Anyway my contention is that Tannehill is a solid, average starting QB in this league. And when I say average, I don't mean in the way "average" and "mediocre" are so liberally thrown around these parts. Kyle Orton was not "mediocre" last year, he sucked. I mean, he is around the 15-20th best starting QB in the league. But definitely good enough to be a team's starter, if you will, "franchise" QB. I would agree with most posters that his ceiling is not a top ten QB. My contention is also that I don't believe EJ Manuel will ever achieve "average" or solid, yeah we're comfortable with this guy as our starter status. This is just my opinion based on what I've seen. But please don't tell everyone you have scientific data proving that EJ is going to be good or Tannehill sucks. The numbers are what they are. I would be willing to take out a second mortgage to bet even odds that EJ Manuel never throws for 4,000 yards and 27 TD's in a season. So what exactly is your contention with respect to what I just wrote?

Your tone, overuse of emoticons and constant attempts at patronizing people is more than a little obnoxious. Your statements such as you can "prove that Tannehill has faulty mechanics" sounds like when Dr. Evil's dad claimed to have invented the question mark. Let's just see where each QB stands after this season. There is no reason to think Tannehill can't improve on 4,000+ yards, 27 TD's and 12 TD's. There is absolutely no reason to be confident in EJ Manuel showing up and improving on his performance last season. As I've stated tirelessly, I hope he does. But my God, he has a hell of a lot more to prove than Ryan Tannehill at this point.

You guys, he's only been the Bills ESPN beat reporter for two years. We haven't seen nearly enough yet to formulate an opinion as to how good of a beat writer he can be. Let's be patient with him.

How in God's name did you determine that? So after two years in the league we know nothing but after three years it's case closed? Not that it matters but do some of you have any idea how much dolphins would laugh at you if they read this thread? If EJ Manuel ever puts up the numbers tannehill put up last year every last one of us would be absolutely elated.

There is no such thing as universal "odds." Every sports book has their own odds.

Very well stated.

Was thinking the exact same thing.

This was an intelligent thread when I went to bed last night and now it has gone the way of so many others around here. There are so many angles to this story- interesting ones that people brought up that I hadn't thought of myself (the soldier/PTSD post was a good one). But the one thing I didn't even consider was that anyone could possibly be critical of Borland. I guess I shouldn't put anything past some of you guys. Why don't we just turn it into another EJ thread while we're at it.

Oh give me a break.

Agreed completely. This is an absolutely huge deal- definitely has the feel of historical significance. As I read the article I couldn't help but think that this is something I would remember reading years from now, kind of like this could be the beginning of the end.

So he only played 14 games? I guess no one can ever speculate as to how good he was gonna be.

Couldn't agree more. Calvin Johnson has sucked pretty much his entire career too. Same with Andre Johnson.

Oh I know exactly who I'm talking to. I'm just waiting for the day he takes off his mask and says "dude do you realize how much time you wasted arguing with me, the whole thing was a joke." I am seriously 50/50 that that is the situation.

What in God's name did you take issue with my post about? I said Stevie Johnson used to be good and now he's not quite as good and that's "trolling?" Would you please stop throwing that term around so incredibly haphazardly?

Ahh so he still sucks in practice and his "only started 14 games" argument will remain well intact. I know another guy who could find himself in that same exact boat very shortly.

Well a lot of the dialogue around here had regressed to "wins and losses, simple as that," which is incredibly ignorant. Of course I agree with you that the Broncos defense and Matt Prater had way more to do with them going on that streak a few years back. I just wish people would extrapolate the Tebow example and use it to understand that W-L is not the be-all-end-all QB statistic.