thewildrabbit

I agree. We were, and are on the same page. I was just pointing that out to the fans just blaming the fumbles or Orton. Kick the FG, and its a one point game. Then Carpenter just needed the Bills to get to the KC 40, and its a probable Bills win.

Jeez, the Bills have a kicker that has already made a 58 yarder this year. Not like the Bills have that scrub Detroit kicker

Kyle Orton is not the major problem with this team, as he didn't fumble the ball away in critical situations. Nor did he make the call to go for it on 4th down with a lot of time on the clock. Kick the FG and its only a one point game.

Kick the field goal, and then you only need another FG. The bills got the ball back 2x after that 4th down pass against one of the better secondaries in the league.

exactly! even with the fumbles the game was still winnable at the end. Don't hate the team, just the guy who decided to go for it on 4th down

I admit Hackett called a much better game, and the Bills just had some bad luck with the fumbles. Still, not going for the FG on 4th down and ten inside the KC redzone with over 2 min left in the game was simply bad coaching, JMO

Those were the years for the great running backs, and i recall how much i enjoyed watching players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, and Earl Campbell carry the entire offense. Its really tragic to see the pain and suffering some great pro NFL players now have to endure later in life.

This is an excellent point. To try and block an elite DT with a 3rd rounder or later is simply absurd, unless they have years of experience, and are great at their jobs. We saw what happened with a celebrated college player in Richardson. I wonder what type of pay the veteran elite OG's command nowadays? There is a significant reason why players are drafted in the later rounds as they are considered to be high risk, low chance of ever developing into a top starter, much less an elite player at any position. It just makes common sense to me that if you want to compete against an elite player, that you need someone with comparable talent. Like I said, players drafted by Buffalo after the 3rd round that become long term starters or even impact players for a few years are almost nonexistent.

So true. Plus, that is a great question, and I keep asking it myself over and over hoping someone with some insight into the team might respond. Even some known insiders can't seem to get a handle on why this team is so bad at evaluating O line talent, and so good at evaluating just about every other position. Just because some teams draft an OG early and he fails doesn't mean it was the wrong idea to draft that position that early. It simply means they didn't do a very good job of evaluating that particular player. No team is perfect in their draft process every year. Just look at the Bills #2 pick this year. It doesn't mean you shouldn't draft one that early, it just means they made the wrong choice. In regards to finding OG's in the later rounds. If you look at the draft history of this team you would be very hard pressed to find any position drafted after the 3rd round to have found long term success, and have become a decent starter. About the only ones that come to my mind are Stevie Johnson in the 7th, Kyle Williams in the 5th. So basically finding quality talent for this team past the third round is almost nonexistent. I'm so sick of these scrubs at OG. I sure hope the Bills figure out this issue asap. BTW, READ THIS: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000423227/article/how-joel-bitonio-helps-to-symbolize-the-browns-rise

I've been wanting the Bills to have been copying Chan Gailey's spread offense since last year, and allow Spiller some space with his runs. This is a big reason why I'm so down on Hackett. At some point you would expect the guy to change when he sees things aren't working. I have no idea what they are watching in the film room to keep doing the same things game after game.

While I agree that both are very smart, shewed business people who also hire great people to help run their businesses. At first there was talk of a consultant for the football side, and now that the team is winning at 5-3 they seem to have changed from that idea. From everything I have read Kim Pegula will be the new CEO, and that's only on the business side. Yahoo sports had an article on it and I can't seem to find it now, or I'd provide a link. We will hear more in the next few weeks depending on if the Bills can keep winning, or not.

Good stuff as Mayock mentions Chiefs TE Travis Kelce, Houston's center Chris Myers, and our very own Fredex !! http://now.nfl.com/browse/113 There is also a video of Sammy, and according to Mayock Watkins has already exceeded expectations. Like I said, good stuff.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000423227/article/how-joel-bitonio-helps-to-symbolize-the-browns-rise Now think of what that young man could be doing for the Bills this year Its playoffs for sure. I think that Bills scouting dept still needs some serious revamping. I sure hope that the Pegula's hire that senior NFL adviser, and he takes a long hard look at this issue

I agree the Bills have swung and missed more times on the line over the last four years then any other area of the team. In 2014 the Bills were targeting a player for RT, and did so 2x. Then didn't go for a OG until round 5. The lack of ability to evaluate talent like this at a professional level boggles my mind considering you have so many people to assess talent. Pro scouts, GM, a HC, an OC, an O line coach all looking at players and still can't get it right. Guys like Cornell Green, Colin Brown, Doug Legursky, Chris Williams, Cujo, and Erik Pears at RG are epic fails. whomever the scout is for the O line needs to be given his walking papers. This is my reasoning for wanting an experienced NFL HC like Bill Cowher who won a power struggle with his GM in Pittsburgh, as he knows player talent as well as any GM, scout. I highly doubt Cowher lets any of the bums mentioned ever step on the field in a Bills Uni, much less start. Kirby, you seem to have some insight into the inner workings of the team. Perhaps you could inquire as to what the issue is with the scouting of O line players. Is it the analytic department getting in the way of good judgement? The Browns / Mike Pettine won't let Hoyer leave, as I doubt Pettine wanted Johnny football to begin with. Besides the bills have a better option in Orton right now, and there would be a line a mile long by other NFL teams to secure Hoyer

They could have easily brought him in to work him out and didn't bother, as he didn't run at his pro day. They had no interest at all from what I remember, and their #1 WR after Watkins was Odell Beckham Jr. Since the draft there has been talk that if they couldn't get that trade done the Bills would have gone TE in Eric Ebron. The Bills scouts seem to have a huge problem in finding talent for the O line, and after seeing this it could be a problem for other areas too. C'mon man a 6'5'' 240 WR is exactly what the Bills have been saying they have needed for 5 years, and he would be that huge target in the red zone like a tight end. Watkins does have way better hands, but both are also freak athletes. Anyway, two first rounders, and a 4th for a WR when you are not 100% certain you have the franchise QB on the roster. Whaley did bring in Orton so that's kind of a strange deal for me. The more the Bills win, the more fans will endorse the trade. So, lets hope the Bills keep winning!

True that, as I watched so many passes over & under thrown, along with so many uncatch-able balls He was EJ at Houston, Phillip Rivers at Miami, Tom Brady at Kansas City horrible. One year I watched Phill Simms go up to Seattle, and get sacked 7 times, Intercepted 4 times, with Simms going 14 of 25 for 190 yards. That same year the NY Giants went on to win the SB with Simms getting the MVP. Dalton beat that game by a mile with his 1.9 yards per pass. The Browns only sacked him 2x, and intercepted him 3x. I can only think that Pettine must have been giving Dalton looks he hadn't seen before

Funny stuff.

The guy seems to be on a crusade to troll at me. I do enjoy discussing things with people like Kirby who want to have an actual conversation, even if it is redundant at times

I state the neglect because of the way the OG position has been addressed since letting Levitre leave. I take exception because of the slew of scrubs they have tried to throw at that position to see if any stick on the wall. While you may consider bringing in warm bodies to fill a position is addressing the position. Its my stance that the way it should have been approached is with a first or second rounder at OG. Guess what, it was OG Joel Bitonio who had that +8.3 run blocking grade. Like I said, look at the depth behind some of the current starters who suck, there isn't any that I can see.

Do us both a favor, and stop quoting me. Simply go away! Find someone else to troll at.

If the O line wasn't an issue I wouldn't be talking about it. As it stand the Bills are currently fielding the worst unit in the NFL. So, Go away!

While I agree with you that they have tried to address the line to some degree. It was Jauron that took Wood with a #1 in 09, and that was with the 2nd #1 pick. Since then it was Nix with Glenn with a #2 in a 3 year period. Now in his second year Whaley tried to address the OT with a #2 that failed, and the OG positions continue to be bad-aided. I just feel the Bills simply haven't put enough effort into finding quality talent for that line over the last three regimes (5 years). Then look at the backup situation along the entire line, its a joke! The Browns fill in the center position with a URFA, and that player out performs any player on the Bills line this year. But yea, the Bills still have serious issues with O line talent evaluation! I gotta wonder is its the analytic department that is trying to moneyball the OG position.

Hey, man you can make believe in anything you want. The Bills currently have two legit decent starting players, and possibly three if Henderson keeps developing the way he has. Lets face it that the Bills are desperate for two decent OG's. The fact is the Browns have much superior O line in many ways, player talent, coaching, and effort to build a top line. They have a rookie OG who graded at +8.3 in run blocking last game.

I respectfully disagree in that the Browns have a first rounder in Joe Thomas at LT who was the #3 overall. A 2nd rounder in Bitonio at LG. Their starting center #1 pick in Alex Mack is on IR, and their backup is FA pickup in McDonald. Greco at RG is a 3rd rounder. Schwartz at RT is a second rounder. #1,#2,#1,#2, #3 are their normal starters, and it shows. The Browns clearly have put a higher priority on the O line in drafting early, and often. It really didn't help them much tho until they found a competent HC, QB, OC. OTOH the Bills still have two waiver wire scrubs at both OG positions, and have been starters the last 3 years, a 7th rounder at RT. I do agree with you that Bills have had, and still have a real problem in identifying OL talent. even this year with the 7th rounder at RT outplaying the 2nd rounder. It looks like Buddy Nix didn't gut that scout staff as much as he should have. Its called talent, and the Bills only have 2 out of 5

While you have to love what Sammy has done so far this season. You also have to look at Panthers WR Kelvin Benjamin who has very similar (almost equal) stats, and was the 28th pick. Kelvin is a beast at 6'5'' 240 lbs, and runs a sub 4-40. I have to ask why no Bills scout saw the potential In Benjamin? Anyway, Sammy would be beating Kelvin by a mile if the Bills had a better OC who didn't use him as a decoy, and got him the ball more often in games then just 2-3 catches a game. The Bills are exceedingly lucky to have Kyle Orton throwing so well, otherwise the need for franchise QB outweighs the need for a star WR. Strangely, I suppose this trade will depend a lot on how long Orton can play well enough to win games for the Bills.