thewildrabbit

I backed up my statement when I said that Fred Jackson makes a lot of yardage on his own after he breaks the first tackle, its the biggest reason he won the starting job over Marshawn. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you only care to see things your way, and your dense. Your entitled to your opinion and furthermore I could really care less what it is because all you ever want to argue about is QB vs O line, in many threads. I firmly believe that the Bills can win with any of the 3 QB's on the roster if they upgrade the O line properly. You on the other hand would have them chasing the proverbial " Franchise" QB and waste first round draft picks over and over. The Bills already wasted a first round pick on JP Losman...

Thanks for agreeing. When the Bills draft a decent LT and RT I think the offense will be much improved

I love how someone can basically dismiss one of the greatest NFL minds to ever be a coach / GM / president as being a poor judge of talent because each and every team he was with didn't win the super bowl. This man is so good he managed to get a team to the super bowl with Drew Bledsoe at QB NY Giants-2 super bowls WON with the NY Giants, Broncos-Bills. When he took over as HC the NY Giants had only won one winning season in the previous ten years. Parcells did have some power from what I remember, he hand picked the defensive players New England-In his 2nd year at NE he had them in the playoffs, in 3 years he had them in the Super Bowl. NY Jets-In his 2nd year with the Jets he went 12-4 out of 3 years, his last season there the starting QB was injured and went on IR, he retired. He stepped down as HC and remained one year as GM. Dallas- Playoffs his first year, In his 3 years at Dallas he made the playoffs 2x and the second time with a young brash still learning QB in Tony Romo. His OC was Sean Payton, you know... the same guy who just won the SB as the Saints HC. I tend to think he was somewhat limited at Dallas because of losing OC Payton and owner Jerry Jones putting his nose in everything. Miami- President - he hired the coaching staff and GM and the Dolphins were a previous 1-16 team and then made the playoffs the his first year with an older noodle armed vet QB named Chad Pennington. Who is to say how good Chad Henne can become playing behind a solid O line and in an innovative wildcat offense. Maybe your not worried about the Dolphins becoming the next divisional powerhouse, I certainly am. The Patriots with Belichick...the NY Jets with Rex Ryan... the Dolphins with Parcells as President. I don't see many wins for the Buffalo with with Ralph Wilson as president, Buddy Nix as GM and Chan Gailey as Head coach. But hey, that's just me.

Dude, you need to get your head outta your stats... There are so many variables that you can't see on a stat page. Like Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch breaking the first tackle to make most of the yardage on their own. Like the Steeler's starting RB getting injured and then losing his job to the rookie. The two offenses were completely different and Pittsburgh threw the ball way more often and had more total offensive plays. Big Ben was injured and concussed and sat out a few games...which the Steelers lost. The Steeler scheme is better, the OC was better, the HC was better, the line was better. I still tend to think Big Ben getting injured was more of the fact the QB holds the ball to long trying to make a play vs the Bills QB checking down every other play and still getting injured. Why not look up the stats regarding each player's game experience, position by position Bills vs Steeler's O line for 09. The biggest difference between both lines was Buffalo's inexperience and horrid play at tackle.The injuries and constant player changes at almost every position on the line. When your tackles are as bad as the Bills were this season the offense is going to be bad. Go back and watch that Bills vs Saints game and witness Edwards literally running for his life every offensive play, he had about 2 seconds to get rid of the ball as both tackles were constantly overwhelmed. The Steeler's O line may look worse then Buffalo's because of sacks given up and the running games were similar, the Bills had far more injuries and were a constant revolving door at every position except center.

I'm thinking they will be more like Parcells NY Giants, and we all know how that turned out

The thing you gotta understand about Parcells is he doesn't want a flashy superstar QB, he wants a QB that can manage the game and not turn the ball over. Parcells did the smartest thing a GM can do, he took the player who he thought was the very best player available to him, I happened to agree with the pick.

Thurman#1 is ok, he just doesn't share the same opinion. I really can't fault him for it either considering actual NFL GM's and coaches truly believe that you take the QB before the line is ready. They even plan to have them sit out, and for whatever reason they end up playing. Look at the Detroit Lions who drafted Matthew Stafford and wanted him to sit out the year as they knew the line wasn't ready. They also brought in Dante Culpepper to play so Stafford could sit, watch and learn. We know that didn't happen because the kid had the burning desire to be on the field, so they let him play. If you watched that kid play this year he was amazing in some games, but then look what happened, he suffered a separated shoulder in the Cleveland game where he set rookie records for TD's (5) and passing yards (422). Then he ended the season on injured reserve and was forced to undergo knee surgery. It is a huge gamble on the teams part to let him play knowing he might get severely injured and have his career end before it can even get started. If I were the HC of the Lions, Stafford would have been sitting like Carson Palmer did his first year while I build the O line and get the offense ready, so I know they can adequately protect him. But hey, that's me.

Wait a min... your trying to tell me the Bills had the better O line this season because their rushing offense was ranked higher then the Steeler's... Sorry, but my eyes tell me something different then your stats.

You guys gotta stop equating sacks given up to equal a bad O line. Both Rothlisberger and Aaron Rogers tend to hold the ball longer then they should waiting for receivers to get open, or they move around in the pocket to buy time. So they tend to take more sacks then they should, that doesn't mean the O line is bad. Plus the fact that the Steelers have transformed under Big Ben because they throw the ball much more now then they did when they had Jerome Bettis. Big Ben was allowed to develop in a power run offense which helped him immensely IMO. The Bills O line vs the Steelers O line... there is a drastic difference in just playing experience alone. Then you need to take other things into consideration, who is calling the plays, who game planned against the opponent and what scheme do they run. Not to mention the other coaches, 2nd year line coach, no QB coach. I'd imagine the Bills QB's would have fared much better this season behind that Steeler's O line, both Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch would have done much better also. That 08 SB year the Steelers center had 8 years exp-LG 3 years exp-RT 3 years exp -LT 6 years exp RG 6 years exp. granted they had some young linemen but the min exp was 3 years and the LT and C were excellent at their positions.

My entire problem with the Buffalo Bills is that if they fail to address the O line and blocking tight end, then how will they ever know if its the QB or other problems? Last season we all knew its the O line, I think everyone agrees that the line was completely horrid for most of the year and hindered the QB's and running game. J.P. Losman and Trent Edwards both started out looking promising. People were saying playoffs in 07 after the 06 season and then JP came out and fell on his face. Edwards came out and won 4 straight in 08, was severely concussed in the Arizona game and hasn't been quite the same since. Who is to say that if the Bills draft Bradford or Clausen and they start to play a few games and look really good... and then "wham" they get injured or concussed. Everyone will then say "oh they sucked from the start" and lets look at next years draft for the "real" Buffalo Bills franchise QB.

Yet you managed to over look my question "Anyone care to explain how the Ravens won that game with the winning QB completing only 4 passes in 10 attempts for a total of 34 yards?" Jeez, the Ravens managed to beat the Patriots in New England with a power running game and a QB who did almost nothing to help win, and everyone conveniently ignores the post. Frankly, I could shive two gits who the Bills QB is... if only they can build a power running game and defense like the Jets and Ravens currently have ...it won't matter who plays QB. Everyone keeps gushing about Jim Kelly and how great he was, I also remember is how good Thurman Thomas was with his cutbacks and the "counter trey" offense. The Bills ran the ball more then they threw the ball most of those glory years.

The difference between most GM's and Bill Polian is that Polian understands that the QB needs a solid surrounding cast to support him. Good experienced veteran offensive coaches, good O linemen, good skill players. Is it a surprise that Payton Manning's QB coach became the head coach after Tony Dungy retired? You can flush the golden rule when your needs on the offensive line are greater then the need at QB. The Buffalo Bills currently need both a left and right tackle and a good blocking tight end.The Bills should have drafted a left tackle last year to replace Jason Peters. So tell us Thurman#1... which QB in this years draft should the Bills go all out to acquire and not draft a left tackle. Which QB in the 2010 draft is going to lead this team to the playoffs? The problem with the "golden rule" is that you need a GM like Bill Polian to have the intelligence to utilize it.

I know that 1990 superbowl is difficult for Bills fans to watch, you know SB 25, "wide right". The one where a back up scrub at QB ...a power running game ...great defense ...beat the highest scoring team of that year. The Bills were 21 point favorites and should have destroyed the NY Giants... should have! Did any of you watch the New England Patriot-Baltimore Ravens wildcard game they played in New England this year? Joe Flacco went 4-10 for 34 yards and yet the Ravens beat the Patriots In New England for a 33-14 win. Anyone care to explain how the Ravens won that game with the winning QB completing only 4 passes in 10 attempts for a total of 34 yards?

San Francisco head coach Bill Walsh is probably defined as the most innovative offensive mind to have coached the last 30 years, his coaching tree has 30+ good coaches that learned under him, and lots of those are head coaches. Walsh stated that it generally took 3-4 to properly develop a QB. Now I'd imagine that statement only holds true if he is in the same system with the same coaches and on a decent team. Now, after reading the last two paragraphs, what does that tell you about Trent Edwards? 10 games in 2007--14 games in 2008--8 games in 2009. Kinda tough to learn the ropes from the sidelines after running for your life game after game. The kid had some real morons teaching him, bad O line, in a poor scheme with a rookie play caller and no QB coach his last year, WTF. He went to college at Stanford so he has the smarts, Bill Walsh gave him a glowing endorsement when the Bills drafted him, good enough for me. He is every accurate with the ball. He got his ass handed to him every game in college and now he has had his ass handed to him by pros. I'd say Gailey needs to give this guy a chance to play on a decent team behind a decent O line in a decent scheme with an experienced play caller, that is, if the last staff didn't completely ruin him. OTOH, should the current "brain trust" at OBD draft a QB or defensive player with that first pick and not a LT...I'd say let the kid go on his way to find his fortune with a different team.

So... Its a big crap shoot at best for any QB drafted There are simply so many variables that many coaches don't take into consideration when they draft a new QB. What system did he play in college... can he even learn a new system in a year because this is a "win now" league. Footwork-throwing technique-dropback passing-film study-tunnel vision,can he throw between the lanes he gets in the pros-does he have an NFL arm-the speed of the game is so much faster and he has much less time for decisions-desire can't be judged, how bad does he want to win?,will he get paid and disappear? The "clincher" for Bill Polian when he drafted Payton Manning over Ryan Leaf was the statement Manning gave in a pre draft interview to Polian. He simply stated... "if you don't draft me I'll come back here and kick your ass for the next ten years". Which took considerable balls to say to a GM about to draft him IMO. Then again Jim Kelly had a swagger which was very similar, very cocky. As coaches you have to ask: do we have a QB coach and OC who can properly develop a rookie QB? Do we have a proper running game and O line to support the kid while he is learning the ropes? I'd have to say, if you were to look up the players listed above, at the years they were drafted you would most likely find that the players that failed went into situations they were clearly not properly prepared for...new young QB's typically get thrown into the fire on bad teams with bad / poor coaching and are expected to win NOW. They are expected to carry the team to wins when most of them are not given enough time to develop or given the proper supporting players around them to help them win.

It didn't state he was drafted, I said he arrived at the same time as Wolford and Hull. I think was Jim Kelly fortunate that he didn't play for the Bills until 86 as he got game experience with the USFL as did center Kent Hull. So Jim Kelly didn't come into Buffalo as a "rookie", he had game experience. He also stated when he first arrived in Buffalo," I can't do this by myself". Meaning he knew he needed a decent team around him, Bill Polian gave that to him Lastly, Bill Polian didn't draft Jim Kelly as he was GM from 1986-1993, so as soon as he was made GM he drafted for the O line!

Fortitude has nothing to do with a severe concussion, even the toughest players succumb to a concussion.Big Ben missed games, Brian Westbrook missed games this season and neither of those two were hit as hard as Edwards was, concussion problems have ended many many players careers. To be honest about it...it wasn't just the Bills O line overall. It was the total offensive scheme, if you notice that Marc Bulger still gets pummeled in St Louis in the Mike Martz scheme. Bad offense, bad scheme, bad protections, rookie O line coach... Lets face facts, overpaid FA O-linemen didn't work before in Buffalo, and I doubt it will work again... so the only recourse is the draft. That #1 pick should be on an O linemen, preferably a left tackle as that position trumps all needs. It should have been addressed last season instead of wasting the pick on Maybin.

Annnnd the first time he gets blind-sided by a safety blitzer coming untouched and then severely concussed like Edwards was in Arizona...he might start to think, wtf am I doing here and begin running for his life. Its a gut feel

As a matter of fact, the same time.... look! 1986: On draft day, Polian again wheeled and dealed with excellent results. Trading a 2nd and a 4th, he picked up a 1st round selection. With his 2 1st round picks, he surprised many in Buffalo selecting RB Ronnie Harmon and grabbed OT Will Wolford with the pick obtained from San Francisco. The Bills already had a full stable at RB with the return of always disgruntled Joe Cribbs , Greg Bell, and solid backup Rob Riddick. Polian selected C Leonard Burton with his 3rd, and FB Carl Byrum with the 5th. Polian displayed his knack of getting quality talent in later rounds. LB Mark Pike and TE Butch Rolle were selected in the 7th. Other USFL free agents signed were Center Kent Hull of the Generals, and DB Dwight Drane. Lost in the Kelly mania that struck the city of Buffalo was Polian's trade of Joe Cribbs to San Francisco for future draft picks. http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/20...the_messiah.php So in 86 the same year that Jim Kelly arrived the Bills managed to acquire LT Will Wolford AND C Kent Hull, two of the very best O linemen in Bills history.

<-----Take a long look at my avatar and notice the hole Thurman Thomas had to run thru, It is one of the reasons as to why the Bills were so dominate in the early 90's. Bill Polian built a solid O line that had mostly the same players for years, it is called "continuity". Something Dick Jauron was clueless about because the players on the O line changed every year under him. This last year he changed every player at every position, and traded away the only good player and pro bowler on the line. That is the reason the Bills had the worst O line in the NFL in 09. The Bills under Jauron and Mularkey tried to "fix" the O line by bringing in high priced free agents and for whatever reason they didn't pan out. Whether it was the poor conditioning, the injuries, the rookie O line coach. Free agents tend to get "Paid" and then slack off, at least the Bills O line players did. Jauron should have drafted for the O line his first year as HC instead of his last,he was hell bent on drafting for the defensive secondary. If they had drafted O line the last four years the Bills might just have an line similar to the NY Jets. Can you imagine what Jackson and Lynch could do with that NY Jet O line to block for them, not to mention the QB would actually have some time to throw.

I honestly hope both Clausen and Bradford are both gone so the Bills will draft a replacement for Jason Peters at LT. The Bills had a strong armed QB in J.P and Jauron & his staff of bozo's ruined him.

You guys are F'ed in the head to want another new QB to get pummeled around before he can even learn the system. First it was Bledsoe the Vet...then J.P. the 1st rd draft pick... then Trent Edwards, the guy who Bill Walsh stated would be a very good QB... AND THE BILLS HAVE RUINED HIM!!!!!!!! Then it was Fitz the vet, then Brohm the Packers practice squad guy. Don't you guys get it... the ONLY way the Buffalo Bills will ever be decent on offense is to build a great O line! The ONLY way to build a great O line is to start with the most important position LEFT TACKLE, then right tackle, then another guard. I's be willing to bet that once Chan Gailey takes a hard look at what he has for O linemen he will draft to fill those positions, at least I hope so.

Why do you guys think that different is better... If he was worth a damn, Campbell or Jackson, their respective teams would hold on to them. We all already know JP stinks so why bring in another QB that can't get it done with a good running game and offense. At least the Bills QB's had various excuses, bad O line, bad scheme, rookie play caller, bad head coach. Both Jackson and Campbell had their chance to shine on much better teams then Buffalo's, those guys would really stink it up with the Bills.

If the defense couldn't stay in their gaps with 4 up front to stop the run, how to you think only 3 D linemen will handle 5 O players. It might get really ugly this first year.

Not to pee in your cheerios, but you could have 100 coaches and if they don't have a brain between them all what good is it? New GM Buddy Nix even mentioned in his first PR statement that there is a severe learning curve to an NFL coach. Although it appears to be the same job college vs pro's, its very different. For my money I'd rather see an experienced NFL offensive coordinator on the sidelines calling plays and setting up the offense. I suppose Gailey will need to train most of his staff in their jobs, which will take time. So I suspect that this first year will be a wash, if the Bills get to 7-9 I'll be greatly surprised. I'm just very disappointed that the Bills settled for Gailey when Marty wanted the job.