thewildrabbit

Upon further reflection... It does make one wonder if there isn't some edict coming from RW to NOT draft O Linemen in the first 5 rounds. Being old school....very old school, perhaps he doesn't want to pay his left tackle more then his QB. Then again he did backup a truck load of cash to Dockery and Walker, then they were clearly jettisoned once they showed they were not close to being elite. If he had paid Jason Peters more then Walker and Dockery ...then Peters might still be a Buffalo Bill. Can you imagine a content Peters at LT and Wood, Levitre at guards,(or even if they had traded back last year and drafted Michael Oher instead of Maybust) this year they trade back and get an extra second round pick and draft Pouncey at center or Bulaga at LT/RT, good lord they would have an awesome O line. My Take, perhaps in 02 (Tom Donahoe & Greg Williams choice) the drafting of OT Mike Williams at #4 and paying him all that signing bonus money and then watch him utterly fail... still burns someone.

They kept drafting low character players at the RB position-Travis Henry-Willis McGahee- Marshawn Lynch. They keep needing to draft CB's because they refuse to pay Antoine Winfield-Nate Clements and even Jabari Greer and then keep drafting the wrong safety's Donte Whitner-Ko Simpson-Ashton Yoboty. Jaurons idea of filling out a roster is keep drafting for the same position year after year and hope to get lucky. Let's face facts, more then anything else this team has done nothing but decline since Bill Polian. It all starts and ends with the GM, lets hope Nix knows what he is doing. From my view I'm just a tad leery now because of the failure to address the OL and more specifically both tackle positions and center. Anthony Davis was there...Mike Iupati was there...Maurkice Pouncey was there...Brian Bulaga was there. Lets hope the Bills didn't draft another Travis-Willis-Marshawn

It is a TEAM game and the team like a chain is only as strong as the weakest link. I'll take a stab at it, lets go back to the beginning of the Jauron era and look at what he did. In 2006 the team went 7-9 JP Losman threw for 3000 yards 19 TD's-14 INTs, drafted in 2004 and he broke his leg and spilt time with Drew Bledsoe- 2005 he spilt time with Kelly Holcomb- Losman was a work in progress. In 06 the team had RB Willis McGahee 325 rushes for 1247 yards. The O line in 05 was Jason Peters LT-Mike Gandy LG- Trey Teague C-Chris Villarrial RG-Bennie Anderson RT Then in 06 the O line was (LT-RT Jason Peters)-(LG-LT Mike Gandy)-C Melvin Fowler-(RG Duke Preston / Chris Villarrial) RT Terrance Pennington. If you notice the Bills tried to make a 7th rd pick start at right tackle, they moved Peters to RT and had Gandy at LT The O linemen stunk in 06 except Jason Peters. The Bills had a very experienced O line coach at that time named Jim McNally 27 years exp and was teaching a zone blocking scheme In 2006 draft the Bills selected Donte Whitner-#8- John McCargo #26-Ashton Yoboty#70-Ko Simpson#108 Kyle Williams #134 Brad Butler #143 Keith Ellison #178 Terrance Pennington #216 My take on the year is ...a still learning his craft 2nd year QB in JP and a weak run defense= 7-9 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Realizing the Bills O line was horrid save for Peters and they drafted mostly players for the secondary in 06, the FO and Jauron decided to go shopping for free agents for the O line. They signed Derrick Dockery & Langston Walker to big paydays for 07. All this did was make Jason Peters mad because two high priced scrubs were making more then he was, as he made the pro bowl. The 07 O line was Jason Peters LT-Derrick Dockery LG- Melvin Fowler C-Brad Butler RG- Langston Walker RT. The O line wasn't that bad and was a work in progress, but it still had weak links in C Melvin Fowler and RG Brad Butler. The Bills had 3rd year JP Losman- Rookie Trent Edwards at QB- Rookie Marshawn Lynch- Robert Royal at TE. 07 Draft- RB Marshawn Lynch #12- LB Paul Posluszny #34-QB Trent Edwards #92-RB Dwayne Wright #111-S John Wendling #184-TE Derrick Schouman #222-DE CJ as you #239 My take on the year is between the flip flopping of the QB's and the poor run defense the team went 7-9 again. O line was better but weak links at C and RT- Rookie play caller Turk Schonert called some really questionable plays, he had his QB's in constant shotgun --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At the end of 07 experienced veteran OL coach Jim McNally retired and the Bills promoted from within and the line got worse. Dockery and Walker were bad choices to repair that line as both were under achievers while in Buffalo. Add to the fact they were being coached by a guy learning to do his job. Is it any wonder why Trent Edwards was leveled in 08 and concussed in Arizona with a rookie line coach calling protections The 08 O line was LT Jason Peters-LG Derrick Dockery- Duke Preston & Melvin Fowler C- Brad Butler RG-Langston Walker RT. 08 Draft #11 CB Leodis McKelvin #41 WR James Hardy- #72 DE Chris Ellis- #114 CB Reggie Corner- #132 TE Derek Fine- #147 OLB Alvin Bowen- #179 RB Xavier Omom-#219 Demetrius Bell-#224 WR Steve Johnson-#251 DB kennard Cox The Bills STILL had weak links on the O line, a disgruntled LT in Jason Peters and centers Preston and Fowler and G Butler. Walker and Dockery still over paid under achievers. The NY Jets game Kris Jenkins was TRIPLE TEAMED by the two guards and center and STILL got to the QB and disrupted the play The entire year pivoted around a rookie line coach, a head coach that was clueless about the offense and how to build one...a 2nd year play caller in Turk Schonert that made some really horrendous decisions during the year. and yet again a poor run defense= 7-9 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last season should still be fresh in your mind, but JIC. Idiot jauron fired his OC two weeks before the season started and Alex Van Pelt had to do 3 jobs, OC- play caller-QB coach. DJ cut the staring RT two weeks before the season opened and started with an entirely new O line, every player at every position. Bottom line...every year Jauron changed the players on the O line and it never did get better, other factors include changing the O line coach-play callers changing- no dominate blocking tight end. no dominate blocking full back. Bad game plans- bad play calling- bad schemes- bad players= losing seasons ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think the thing that bothers most Bills fans (me anyway) is the fact that we all watched the Jets with a new GM Mike Tannenbaum and HC Eric Manginni go out their first year and draft a LT and C and rebuilt their O line properly thru the draft. The Jets were in the playoffs again this year with a rookie QB. Then we see Bill Parcells join the Dolphins and his first pick is the #1 overall and a left tackle, when the team clearly needed a QB and could have taken Matt Ryan.Their first year under Parcells and they go to the playoffs with a castoff scrub QB. We were hoping the new Bills GM / HC would do the right thing and build the O line thru the draft like the Jets and Miami did, they didn't. We have seen Jauron draft 5th-7th round O linemen and they all failed.

My take is he just didn't have time to get rid of the ball easily, they were already on him... throwing it away is easy to say ...but when you have less then three seconds and several players already in reach... my thoughts would be to not turn the ball over, just eat it and punt on that particular play. Nobody on that O line played well last season, nobody! Hangartner might have played every game but he rated very poorly... 983 snaps 4 penalties 3 sacks 2 hits 16 QB pressures and ranked 27th out of 34. I'm not ready to crucify Hangatner just yet tho, he did have 2 rookies on either side of him. Plus the fact he graded out better then Melvin Fowler did the previous two years. I can only think that the new GM and HC want to try and coach all the players up they way they want and then see what they have. Hopefully they wake the up soon and realize how desperately they need some tackles.

Yea well go back and watch that hit again, then count off how much time Edwards had to throw it. I counted 3 seconds and they were already on him, it was 3rd down and 2 freaking yards and they decided to throw! It was a run blitz called by the Jets. they had 9 Jets at the LoS ... 8 Jets came on that blitz If you watch Edwards helmet movement on that play he looks at all 3 receivers, TE to the flat was covered, both receivers were covered closely man to man, he had nowhere to go with the ball. Bad play call, bad protections= concusion

Got the Arizona game on my DVR and watched that hit, it was 3rd down and 5 to go. Edwards saw the blitz coming and still got the ball off to James Hardy who got the first down. The Arizona player was heavily fined for that hit because he drove his helmet into Edwards and then into the ground. The Jets game 3 Jets converged on Edwards and one made helmet to helmet contact,one was behind him and the front two bent him backwards. He saw the Jets coming didn't see an open receiver and they were on him so fast as the line protections broke down quickly, all he could do was tuck and hold onto the ball. The concussions could have happened to any QB playing behind that crap O line. This season whoever starts at QB is going to get pummeled again as the Bills still haven't brought in a premier LT and they have a PoS at RT.

Not wishing the kid any harm, just thinking if the Bills utilize him on kickoffs-WR-RB and he gets injured, their entire strategy of him opening up the offense goes out the window. Now, if the Bills were to trade for Jared Gaither-Jammal Brown... or even pick up Flozell Adams I know I'd be thinking they actually stand a chance to be good this year.

This move is not RW, this choice has Chan Gailey all over it, remember him talking about drafting a "waterbug" type player before the draft, he got his "waterbug" Spiller was not a bad choice, the guy is a playmaker and the Bills were lacking that area,all they have is Fred Jackson and Lee Evans. Like I alluded to earlier, he is an explosive player at WR-slot-RB. Just think of lining him up at WR and go from there, the opposing defense will need to drop back into coverage just to stop the big play. This should open up the running game a great deal as they won't be able to stack the box in fear of getting burned by Spiller on the outside,and it should help open up the passing game to a degree theoretically! If the opposing defense jams Spiller at the line and double-triple teams him and rolls coverage to him, it could easily shut him down, all they gotta do is lock him up for 3 seconds and the play is over. Now considering the team didn't get a premier LT they will have less time to make reads and deliver the ball no matter who is the QB. My problem is, the choices after Spiller don't include a LT until round 5 and there they took a developmental player... who may or may not ever become a decent LT. So all the Bills have at LT is Bell, who is coming off a torn ACL.

No, I wouldn't say... Spiller won't make the Bills a better pass blocking team, which is what they desperately need to improve, more specifically the QB's blind side needs to be upgraded. Fred Jackson is an elusive runner and was able to shed blocks and make defenders miss, his ability to make yardage after the initial hit is what allowed him to become the starter and do so well. His 1000 yard+ season is more of a tribute to his abilities then the Bills O line IMO. My take on drafting Spiller is that they killed two birds with one stone,they needed a WR opposite Lee Evans and they got a RB that can play in the slot, play outside, line up at TB-RB-HB in that they got another great RB in the Fred Jackson mold, only faster 4.33 Footballfocus breaks down individual play and footballoutsiders breaks down the teams play, as a team the Bills O line looked better running the ball then passing because of the play of Fred Jackson. The NFL has become a passing league and the Bills need to pass block better to compete in the AFC East.

Dunno about you but I'm happy Miami took Ginn over Willis The Bills reached on Whitner, he was the 56th rated player on the boards at the time, but the Bills NEEDED a safety. Now that was a reach...drafting a player with a second round rating and drafting him 8th, if that wasn't bad enough they move into round one again and take a 3rd-4th round guy in John McCargo and draft him 26th. Yea, tell me about drafting Aaron Maybin who is a 3 year developmental project, who had one good trait ...speed with only one move, run the arc, and one year as a starter in college.The guy may never make the transition to OLB because of his lack of knowledge and coverage skills. They could have taken Michael Oher... oh, but he wasn't rated as high...

I'm not complaining that they drafted Spiller, in fact before the draft I had pointed out he made sense as the best player available if the top O linemen were already gone, search my previous posts. What my problem is... the new dufas head coach thinks the O line will magically improve with a speedy RB, and that he gets some of you guys to agree with him. The player they drafted in the 5th round may turn out to be a Jared Gaither type who was drafted by the Ravens in the 5th round, OTOH he may be a project and take 2 years to fully develop, who really knows at this point . Meanwhile ...we already know Bell wasn't very good as a starter and he suffered a severe ACL tear ending his season. The fact that the team hasn't bolstered the LT position with a high value player is very disconcerting to me So the Bills are going into the 2010 season with a 5th round project and a guy we already know stinks at LT coming off a bad knee injury.

All we can do is wait and hope someone in the Bills org wakes up and realizes just how weak the LT position is, if they were to get one decent player that grades better then Bell I know I'd feel better about the upcoming season. No other position is as important because he protects the QB's blind side, the Bills can get by with sub par play from any other position on the offensive line and still win. Because sub par is all they currently have on that line. 3 months to go and my biggest fear is we wait and watch and this staff pulls a jauron ...and other teams get the pick of the litter of FA LT's... and the bills end up not signing anyone just like last year

It is because of those facts that most fans realize the Bills needed to upgrade both tackle and center positions. The Bills addressed the RT by signing Cornell Green ...another washed up free agent who has been with 5 teams the past 12 years, 48th out of 77. slightly better then what they had, still nothing significant Both Wood and Bell are coming off severe season ending injuries... G Levitre rated 74 out of 84 (LG) 14 G Wood 65 out of 84 (RG)10 LT Bell 74 out of 77 (LT)8 RT Jonathon Scott (LT) 7 (RT)3 -59 out of 77 RT Kirk Chambers (LT)1 (RT) 11 57 out of 77 C Hangartner 27 out of 34 Nobody on the Bills line last season played well, each and every player was rated near the worst at their positions and Bell was about the worst LT in the NFL last season. Derrick Dockery was cut by the Bills and rejoined the Redskins and his play 24 out of 84 was far superior then any Bills player last season. Richie Incognito was better then any Bills player and they let him go to Miami, makes no sense. Sorry, but the O line was Buffalo's weakest area by far, and they neglected it again this year in the draft. All I see is a team setting themselves up to fail, just like last season.

Like I stated last off season in 09 with dickhead jauron as HC, its a win win situation for Bills fans. If what the new HC states is true and the Bills don't need superior O line play to win, then fine the Bills are in the playoffs and everyone is happy! Should the Bills go 1-15 and get next years #1 overall draft pick because the line can't block anyone again this year, Gailey gets fired and the Bills hire Marty and everyone is happy! That freaking stupid Bill Parcells down in Miami wasting a #1 overall pick on OLT Jake Long when all he really needed was a speedy RB...go figure. Cam Cameron got it all wrong the year before by drafting a speedy WR in Ted Ginn Jr, wow all he really needed to do was draft a speedy RB... simple, but huge mistake

After posting the above post I started reading other threads and found this... even the Packer fans know we are screwed again this year http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showtopic=112864 "Quote" I was upset when the Bills took him only because it was basically a 2nd round pick going straight down the drain. He really didn't show much when he was here and was constantly outperformed by 7th round pick Matt Flynn. Now while stating that, I must say I like Brohm a lot. Thought he was a great QB in college and was extremely excited when the Packers drafted him. I wish it would have turned out better but what's done is done. I still think he has the potential to be a solid starting QB, but I must say I am pretty doubtful about that now. I wouldn't give up on him just yet though. I feel sorry if he does start because Buffalo has no offensive line at all and Brohm is just going to get pummled. Keep reading that Packer thread and one fan has pic of Bryan Bulaga as plow boy, gotta love how they embrace an offensive tackle with that #1 pick

The Bills still don't have a premier left tackle, they "think" the new 5th round draft pick can step in at some point in the future, but they can't possibly know if he can play at a high level in the NFL or not. Clearly Bell was starting to play OK at LT before the first injury. Then he suffered a season ending ACL tear and they really don't know if he can return at 100% and keep developing. So, the fact that this new coaching staff is willing to gamble on the second most important position on the offense next to the QB leads me to think they are another inept band of fools. At least Jauron had an excuse, he was a defensive minded coach and sort of clueless about the offense. The good ole boy network has their collective heads up their keasters if they don't fix the LT position... If Bills fans are lucky RW might run another clean sweep after this year and hire Martyball

It is just amazing to me how some can misconstrue the actual facts and blow things out of proportion. First, this is nothing even remotely like the Jason Peters situation in which the Bills themselves created by bringing in overpaid lesser talented free agents. Second, Chris Johnson is playing for his rookie contract, which after rushing for 2000 yards last season he clearly deserves a raise. The NFL rules limit how much the Titans can pay him so he is skipping the non mandatory OTA's. Unlike the Bills, the Titans will find a way to make that very special running back happy and pay him accordingly.

I don't get why other the coaches and Bills fans don't see the problem with the O line...the rest of the world see's it, just like we all saw it last season. If they would only fix the LT situation the QB's might stand a chance to be decent

Ignoring the "win now" mentality is what finally got jauron fired... I hope it works on Gailey also

Well said... The eternal optimism around this forum makes me wanna . I kept reading this same type of garbage around this time last year all the way up until opening day. Then once week three hit and Edwards was literally running for his life every offensive play...the reality struck like a lighting bolt to the head and most woke up. If only last season they had drafted Michael Oher instead of Aaron Maybust, they needed a LT and not a DE that needed 3 years to develop. This year they take a RB with that #1...one of the Bills only strong areas, then go DT with the #2 and completely ignoring the dire need at LT. The one good thing about drafting Maybust, it got dickhead jauron fired ! I just don't get it ... how can Nix and Gailey ignore the LT position ...because one didn't fall into their laps after the first pick, why take a freaking RB Oh well, I can only hope Gailey gets fired faster then it took to fire knucklehead Jaruon.

Yea, and I'd feel a little better if the guy wasn't fired from his last job in the NFL as an offensive coordinator. The fact that he chose a speedy RB over a LT leads me to think he might be another Cam Cameron in Miami who took Ted Ginn Jr with their first pick. How can this man disregard the O line and think that a very a raw Bell coming off a torn ACL or 5th rd developmental pick can somehow hold down the toughest job on the team? The only light I see at the end of the tunnel is that like Cameron who was fired after his first horrendous season at 1-15 ... Gailey might get the axe quickly and the Bills hire a smart coach and they draft a premier left tackle or a franchise QB next year. I just don't see the offense improving with no major upgrade to the left tackle position

The Bills O line before they traded away Jason Peters was simply under achieving because of poor coaching, they had replaced an 18 year veteran O line coach with a rookie. Jason Peters-Derrick Dockery-Langston Walker all never played up to their abilities while with Buffalo or the Bills would have had one of the best lines in the NFL in 07-08. The Bills just hired a new head coach that was just fired from his last job as OC, he went and hired a bunch of inexperienced college coaches. The new GM didn't draft an OT till round 5, he thinks an inexperienced untalented tackle in Bell who is coming off a torn ACL injury can start at LT. The team is revamping the entire offensive and defensive schemes and needs to retrain all the players to learn the new schemes. 5-11 was being optimistic

Couldn't agree more, obviously the new coaching staff and GM also think the same way or Edwards wouldn't get another chance. The problem is... this staff / GM didn't fix the O line, every player at every position played sub par and was about the worst in the league last season. I highly doubt that even with the proper coaching that this new staff can perform a miracle and get the players they currently have on the roster to play above their ability, save the guards Levitre and Wood. The talent is simply not there at either tackle position or center...this upcoming season is another disaster waiting to happen... no matter who starts behind the center. Anthony Davis was there...Mike Iupati was there...Maurkice Pouncey was there...Brian Bulaga was there.

Brees was also benched by Marty and stated later that his benching is what pushed him to get better. Lets not forget that at his end he had a great surrounding cast in SD, coaches- Cam Cameron OC- Marty HC- players- best TE in the game at that time, LT and a dominate running attack. I can only dream of a Bills offense as good as SD, NYJ, Balt Ravens.

Ahhhh, the eternal optimism of the a true Bills fan Keeping it real, it might look more like 5-11 and that is if they can magically improve the O line. I predict if they keep the status quo at the offensive line of scrimmage they will be contending for....... The first overall pick in 2011, and Jake Locker or Andrew Luck At least they will finally have a shot at a true franchise QB.