thewildrabbit

The Bills knew the guy was a project and a one trick pony, he had one move and that was run the arc, If a linemen got his hands on him he was done, he only played one year at Penn St and the world knew he was a developmental pick that "might" be good in a year or two. Lets not forget that all the posters in this forum wanted a DE that year and everyone was gushing about his speed and how that can't be taught. Now all you guys want to do is piss and moan about him...give him another year and see if he does develop.

Jaron...is that you? err Modrak is that you ?

You got me, he didn't actually "bring them to Buffalo" But someone on the Bills had to scout them out and consider them top talent to pay them as much as they did! That entire Jason Peters fiasco was brought about by overpaying those two underachievers a penny more then Peters. I know I'd get mad and upset if my Co brought in new help and paid them more then what I was making and then I was forced to watch them fail...meanwhile I get selected by my peers as the best at my position. Anyway... yea, it couldn't be more frustrating as a fan to sit by and watch the team fail another year because they refuse to upgrade the 2nd most important position on the offense, then realize that the #1 position on the offense is going to fail also...no matter who it is. I wonder if and when it will "sink in" to Gailey and Nix, if ever.

Why do you have a problem comprehending the fact that the team traded away the best player on the line, at the most important position on the line and then never even tried to replace him? Instead they try and make do with a scrub they drafted in the 7th round who may take years to develop and in fact may NEVER develop. You yourself stated "" they have selected and signed bad players"" What makes you think things have changed as the very same guy that brought in Walker-Dockery is still in charge of the scouting dept. First of all Kyle Calloway is being moved to guard as was stated by the team, second Wang is a 5th round pick and a developmental player, I'll be surprised if he even makes a start this year or next. "" And I guess if Ed Wang or Kyle Calloway become solid starters or pro bowlers, the Bills still would have neglected the OL, because they weren't first round picks."" Your words, not mine. You seem to have difficulty in understanding just how rare it is to have a pro bowl player at the left tackle position, just because the Bills were able to mold one from a converted tight end doesn't mean that any 5th or 7th round draft pick can instantly become be a substitute. The guy who developed Jason Peters retired years ago, Jim McNally. I didn't say Wood and Levtrie were "no good", again your words not mine. What I said was: Because of all those injuries and definite lack of any sort of continuity amongst the players last season everyone thinks the guard positions are set for ten years, I don't. Even if the O line stays injury free I have my doubts about any of the players improving to above average status, much less elite status. "" Above average status does not equal 'no good', it simply means I have my doubts about either becoming top players at their positions. Last season they both rated amongst the worst at their positions.

Better then 7-9 ain't gonna happen this year, unless the red happens The Bills should improve on offense for the simple upgrade of an offensive minded head coach that knows what he is doing. The only area on the team that really concerns me is the O line in that the QB's can't really improve if they are constantly under duress.

Granted the Bills drafted 2 guards out of necessity and replaced the center with another stop gap player, they still ignored the LT position both last year and this year in the draft after trading away the only PB player on the line. To me that is neglecting the LT position... especially considering they went and drafted a project one trick pony DE with that first round pick last season... who may never develop. This year they did it again and went after a NT in the second and didn't draft a tackle until the 5th round. Now, everybody and their brother in this forum seems to think Wood and Levitre are the answers at guard, and because of injuries on the line last season nobody but Hangartner stayed in the same position and played every game. Because of all those injuries and definite lack of any sort of continuity amongst the players last season everyone thinks the guard positions are set for ten years, I don't. Even if the O line stays injury free I have my doubts about any of the players improving to above average status, much less elite status. Time will tell and we will see.

Its not even close to being inarguable that the team is neglecting the O line...what planet have you been living on that you missed the pro bowl LT traded away and never replaced?

Yea well, someone is to blame for the failure to find top talent for the lines the last 8 years. I gotta say it looks like the Bills have gone outta they're way to avoid drafting another Mike Williams as they haven't even tried to draft any tackles in the first three rounds. Dunno, maybe they are hoping to find another JP to fill the LT spot... they won't because they guy who developed him is long gone (Jim McNally).

Well If that turns out to be the case it most certainly limits what the offense can do, if there is clearly no threat of a deep bomb and they successfully jam Spiller at the line it will be the same old crap we have witnessed for the last four years. I HAVE A DREAM...(MLK voice) one day someone at OBD will wake up and realize that a great O line will produce a top ten offense. Build the line and keep it maintained, fill the skill positions. Year after year this team keeps rebuilding only to fail year after year because they neglect the line, they get good guards and stop there, they get a good LT and stop there. Some &$#% scouts can't seem to find talent for the O line unless they draft them in the first or second rounds

I'd like to think of Buffalo Bills fans as more then just casual fans, I think the Bills have some of the most diehard fans in all sports and are very knowledgeable about their team. Its tough to find joy in a team where most fans are aware of how bad coaches and players are before they actually show it to the rest of the world. If this new HC can't overhaul the offense in terms of a better scheme, better game plan and actually out think the opponents on game day then he won't be an improvement over the last staff. Most already realize he will out play call the last two OC's, its just a question of "IF" he can find innovative ways to get the receivers open and make holes for the running backs. If Chan Gailey can actually improve the O line performance without upgrading both tackle positions he will be a miracle worker in my eyes. The biggest question is... will the line allow whomever the QB is to take 5-7 step drops to deliver a deep pass?

As much as I love those late 80's- early 90's teams I simply can't watch them again on TV as it's just to depressing. I had season tix from 88-94 and enjoyed every minute of every game during those years, the Bills in 4 SB's was pretty amazing. As badly as I feel about those SB losses I simply can't imagine how Scott Norwood is coping with "wide right", it must still haunt him.

CBS Sportsline has the Bills selecting Jake Locker with the first pick in the 2011 draft -SURPRISE- http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft?tag=fas...nfl;NFL%20Draft

Not for nothing but maybe that hearsay has some validity because someone at OBD is completely useless in judging O line talent, drafting guys like Mike Williams with the # 4th overall, while missing on ...the Vikings took Bryant McKinnie with the #7 pick in the first round and he has been the starting left tackle there for 108 games from 2003 to present 2002 Mike D Williams T #4 pick first round-02-05 complete bust in Buffalo even at RT Mike Pucillo G # 215 seventh round-03 to 07 long gone 2003 Ben Sobieski T #151 5th round- 03 -long gone 2004-Dylan McFarland T #207 seventh round-04 to 05-long gone 2005-Duke Preston C #122 fourth round -05 to 08 Justin Geisinger G # 197 sixth round-06 to 08 long gone 2006-Brad Butler T #143 fifth round- 06 to 09 retired Terrance Pennington T #216 seventh round-06 long gone Aaron Merz G #248 G seventh round -06 long gone 2007----- 2008- Demetrius Bell T #219 seventh round 08-09 2009- Eric Wood C #28 first round 09 Andy Levitre G #51 second round 09 2010-Ed Wang T #140 fifth round Kyle Calloway T #216 seventh round The majority of fans posting here and overall consensus seem to think Wood and levitre were really good picks even in the first and second rounds for the O line. Which makes me wonder why the Bills refuse to draft tackles in the first two rounds. Jauron failed at first in drafting DB's, he just kept trying till he got it right. Looking back over the past 8 years and the history of OT picks in the later rounds I'm inclined to believe that Wang will fail, unless he is a Nix pick.

Thanks again for the Info I was looking more at Terrance Cody who the Ravens took. No running back rushed for 100 yards against the Tide after Cody transferred from Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College. As dominant as he is in this role, he is a bit of a one-trick pony. Alabama rotated or substituted at the position enough that some teams view Cody as a specialist, which will no doubt impact his draft standing with some teams. Those looking for a run-plugging 3-4 nose tackle, however, will greatly value his services. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players...tTrackerTable57 I would have looked long at the OT's at this point in the draft and worried about building a better defense in 2011, that's me tho.

Oh man, huge thanks for posting that...I was about to post in a different thread: What I'd like to know is... which Buffalo Bills scout is responsible for grading the O line players, and if its the same guy that has been doing the grading for the O line the last 6 years? I'm not certain how the Bills scouts do they're general grading, my thoughts are they send some people to different parts of the country to watch games and evaluate players during the college football season, then turn in reports and then they all get together and give their input for the combine and the draft. The Bills used to be particularly bad judging corner backs and wide receivers, lately it seems they are now almost horrid at judging line talent, both offense and defense. Number one picks John McCargo and Aaron Maybin and all the O line players they have shuffled in and out over the last 6 years. I can understand staying with the same QB's considering how bad the offensive coaching talent had been, scheme, game plans and play calling. However, I don't understand not upgrading both the O tackles eariler then a developmental 5th round pick, and a holding machine from the Raiders. I truly believe that coaching is everything, and yet ya gotta have something worth starting with... -------------------------------------------------- Now I understand the problems with this team and the players they acquire, isn't this the same guy who thought Langston Walker and Derrick Dockery would be worthwhile upgrades for the O line at huge saleries? Along with countless other scrubs this team has tried to get by with on the O line. Jeez, I miss Bill Polian

Draft grades are over rated IMO, find the guy you think will best help your team and draft him. I have a tough time thinking that a RB will help more then a LT. Think about it a min, last season the Bills needed a LT to fill the void of Jason Peters and Michael Oher was still there. The Bills had Aaron Maybust graded as the best DE at that position over Orakpo, shows you what they know. Last season the Bills could have easily traded back and gotten more picks and still drafted Oher. This season they could have traded back and still have gotten Maurkice Pouncey-Brian Bulaga or simply drafted Anthony Davis. I'm not sold on Hangartner just yet, I'm not ready to dump him either as he did play with two rooks on either side of him. Although, If he can't handle Vince Wolfork or Kris Jenkins then wth good is he?

Bill is OK, he is just a tad bitter about the Bills selecting a RB when they already had two very good players in Lynch and Jackson, not really an area of desperate need for the Bills. (So he is looking for someone / something to blame it on. The selection really has nothing to do with the owner IMO.) However, the O line did have desperate needs at both tackle positions and center, and the Bills simply ignored those positions until the 5th round, and we have all seen what type of O linemen the Bills have selected in the later rounds the last few years. This years draft was loaded with talent at the tackle position and 8 OT's went in the first two rounds and the Bills didn't draft any of them. Someone on the Bills staff (scout?) seems to think they can win with below average talent on the O line... My problem is the past 6 years the talent evaluators at OBD kept finding these scrubs like Ross Tucker-Lawrence Smith- Benny Anderson-Trey Teague-Mike D Williams-Melvin Fowler-Mike Gandy-Tutan Reyes-Cris Villarrial-Duke Preston-Terrance Pennington-Brad Butler- Derrick Dockery-Langston Walker and plugging them in and they all STUNK!!! I have absolutely no confidence in whomever is judging the offensive line talent for this team the last 6 years... and it looks like nothing has changed. What really kind of bothers me is ""Dolphins coach Tony Sparano raved about RG Richie Incognito's "fast-twitch" power."" The Dolphins' offensive line is known for its power, a trait that Incognito also possesses. "He's knocking people down with his hands," said Sparano. Miami will have one of the top offensive lines in the league once again this season. Incognito will be an asset if he avoids boneheaded penalties. http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3291

I considered Sproles to be a MJD clone, mini bowling ball type. Chan Gailey got his "waterbug" he was talking about pre-draft and apparently thinks that type of player can help the Bills more then others. He reminds me of a Reggie Bush type with more speed, a playmaker. I only hope that with the current O line players the "waterbug" doesn't get smushed / swatted trying to get outta the backfield.

You make some good points The Bills could have retained Perry Fewell as HC and still hired Chan Gailey as OC, thats what Bill Cowher stated he would have done. Shoot, the guy was just fired as OC in KC and probably have taken the job as QB coach. I can understand the Bills wanting an experienced offensive minded super bowl winning head coach like Shanahan, and even though he turned down Buffalo there were still guys like Steve Mariucci and Brian Billick and Marty Schottenheimer all looking for work, and the latter might have actually gotten the Bills into the playoffs pretty quickly. Maybe its just me, but I can't see this proclaimed quick turn around... I see them competing alright, I see them competing for the #1 overall in next years draft.

It troubles me to think that this "brilliant" offensive mind is ok going into this season with basically the same O line that Jauron went into last season with, the trouble starts with the fact that whomever the QB is they will be unable to take a 5 step drop as the current tackles stink. I make that statement because I've seen them play, they may or may not improve with more playing experience. Big gamble if they don't. Then the Bills have no second receiver as TO is gone, no TE deep threat. The problem is in the fact that this 2010 draft was very deep in O line talent, 8 tackles went in the first two rounds and the Bills failed to draft any of them. The Bills will improve to some degree on offense simply because Gailey knows offense, how much remains to be seen with so many holes not yet filled.

I agree with the bolded What Chan Gailey fails to realize is that the Bills played their hearts out Jauron, they played tough hard nosed football. It was just that the schemes were lousy and his coaching staff wasn't smart enough to out think the guy holding the first down marker. My take from what I've read Gailey talk about is he is thinking he can get the team to be disciplined in the fundamentals, blocking, tackling etc. Even if the Bills do improve somewhat in that respect, it won't be by that much IMO. Michael Lombardi stated on the NFL network..."the Bills are tough to play, but easy to beat". That statement rang so true for a Dick Jauron led team, considering he was an Ivy League grad he didn't have the smarts to out game plan anyone. What this team needs is a head coach who can teach the assistant coaches and players to make plays and out play, out think, out game plan the opponents and do it with schemes that actually work.

Completely agree with everything you stated. I'm not sold on this team winning anything yet, my only fear is a correlation between Miami and Buffalo in terms of Cam Cameron and his one year at Miami, I'm fairly certain he expected to win also. I just don't see the offense improving without major upgrades on the line, I hope I'm wrong.

You know what, If I'm Trent Edwards and I see that this new coaching staff did very little to fix last years mess of an offense... Still lacking a decent LT-dominate blocking TE & FB- no deep threat TE- no second receiver. I'd be thinking, how hell can I throw 5 step drops when I won't have time to complete them...here we go again.

Yea well, it is a win now league and I think if this new HC and GM falter big time and go 1-15 or winless, then they can kiss their 2-3 year plan goodbye.

Ravens and Chargers in the AFC championship game, my 2 cents