thewildrabbit

Exactly my opinion also, I think the Bills hung on to Reed way to long. It took him years to develop as a slot / possession receiver and he was still lacking in a few areas when they let him go this year. I used to watch him on blitzes and he wouldn't watch to see if his defender was on him or going for the QB, he would often be wide open for a quick pass that could have gone for big yardage. He would just run his route and then look for the ball. It could have been the lack of decent coaching or just a not to bright a player. Lets see if it was the system, the QB or the player as Reed is now in SD with good coaches and a good offense. The thing about the Bills offense has been the OT positions, both have been bad since JP was traded and fold like wet cardboard. That leaves the QB about 3 seconds under a heavy rush to get rid of the ball. If the possession receiver and TE's both stink that leaves very few options for the QB to even make a first down. The Bills finally get another deep threat in TO to take some heat off Lee Evans and open up the deep game...then they tear apart the O line to screw themselves and give the QB no time to throw deep passes, just lame.

My take on what Jauron wanted made sense actually, simplify the offense to around 20-25 plays and let the offense master those and just switch up formations to keep the defense guessing. Let's face it, Jauron and Schonert were both morons, DJ is coaching DB's and Schonert is out of the NFL says it all. I agree with dog on the fact that the entire offense was hamstrung the last 4 years by bad game planning and play calling, plus a horrid scheme,with both lousy coaches and players. What QB could possibly progress under those conditions?

Let's make one thing clear can we, this pick was all Chan Gailey. He was talking about drafting a "water-bug" months before the draft. The local news did stories on Dexter McCluster and how they thought he might fill the need Gailey wanted. The Spiller pick at first glance seems like a luxury pick, but then Fred Jackson is older and Lynch is a screw-up away from another suspension. I think that most of the world of pro football would have had the Bills selecting an OT with that first pick, so the Spiller pick was a bit of shocker to most. I even had stated before the draft that he would be a good pick, but only if they took an OT with the #2. My only problem is that the Bills didn't address the O line until round 5, and they should have drafted at least two OT's from between 1-5 JMO. The Bills are still very weak on the O line and have an assistant O line coach setting up protections, plus Gailey stated he wants to use a zone blocking scheme. Gonna be an interesting year!

YOU started this by attacking my first post in this thread in which I started by defending Montana from someone who said he was gay! Wanna see Priceless... I'm not the one who is so butthurt that I need to keep someone else's statement in bold below every post I make.

Kinda looks like Bobby Goldsboro... http://www.roadierealestate.com/images/tweety_goldsboro.jpg

Your correct, it is almost pointless because you never lose an argument... because your never wrong are you? Your Joe M story as being the greatest ever might fly if he went to a bad team and then raised it to a high level with his play, left the team and then it collapsed after he left, like the Dolphins did when Dan Marino left Miami. The 49ers won another SB and had continued success with out Joe, in that WCO. Not only did the 49ers not collapsed after Joe left, he failed to elevate an already playoff KC Chiefs to a SB. Simple facts that you refuse to acknowledge by giving excuses about the teams other players. You keep stating Joe did it all alone in 1981, why couldn't he do it all alone again with the Chiefs? Joe Montana has success with one team and then was replaced, went to another team and didn't ever do as well as he did in SF. That same Bill Walsh WCO passing offensive system went on to elevate other QB's on other teams to greatness, those many many coaches who were Bill Walsh disciples went on to win many many games. Bill Walsh changed the face of football. You see his stamp everywhere. He dreamed plays and made magic. You can't watch a football game or coach in this country without seeing something Walsh came up with, West Coast style. His coaching tree is boundless - and color blind. http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/aug/01/01...-for-teaching1/

On the contrary, nobody in this forum attacks others personally like you do, you have a very hard time arguing a point without the names, the insults, the condescending attitude like you are better or know more then they do, your not and you don't! I'm not crying about it as I just consider the source. Somebody else pointed out that you were wrong and I was being harsh back to you, all I did was give them the reason why. Every point you made about my original post in this thread I proved you wrong and yet ... here you are still arguing. You make a statement that Joe INSTANTLY vastly improved that 49er team... and yet it took him three years. Last time I checked 3 years isn't INSTANTLY, You were wrong, but you still want to argue it. You keep insisting that I disregard Joe Montana and I never have, show me one time that I stated anything other then he was a great QB! My original post in this thread was to correct a poster who called Joe Montana gay! For some reason you refuse to comprehend the fact that Montana could have failed just like Steve Young failed, your problem not mine.

Your right I could have been nicer, but then... I'm a Bills fan and simply want to post my opinion on occasion. I try to be considerate most of the time to others here because I know they are like me, a Bills fan. Some people on the other hand feel the need to call names , cast insults and condescend If someone doesn't agree with them. This guy can be a real jerk at times and obviously has some serious insecurity issues to feel the need to put down those that don't agree with him. I actually feel bad for him...and the people that know him.

I have never denied Joe M wasn't a great QB, although you seem to think I'm stating that by saying he would have failed with a bad team. You can put Joe M on as high a pedestal as you want and it still doesn't alter the fact that it took 3 years for him to develop in the same system with the same coaches, so it didn't happen INSTANTLY like you claim in previous posts in this thread. Try and grasp the 30+ point differential between the 1980 team and the 1981 team, look at the teams with the best records every year and they usually have a very positive turnover ratio, conversely the losing teams have a negative ratio. That 1981 49er team wasn't great because of only Joe Montana, it was great because of the coaching, the players on the offense and defense and the play of the ENTIRE TEAM. Something you say you understand but then deny is the TEAM CONCEPT, the 81 49ers had a great defense, they were #1 in the NFL in turnovers and #2 overall in defense. So, if Joe M was such a great one man show and could do it all by himself, wth happened when he was traded to KC in 93-94? That KC team was already a playoff team under Marty S and just needed a top QB to get them to the SB, Joe Montana FAILED in KC. He went 11-5 & 9-7 kinda poor showing for the one man team and greatest ever. The Chiefs were (11-5 in 1990)-(10-6 in 1991)-(10-6 in 1992) Like Jim Kelly, Steve Young played in the USFL and had some decent experience like Kelly did with a pro style offense. Even with that USFL experience behind him he went to a bad team and failed, so he wasn't really a rookie when he entered the NFL. You still want to argue that Joe Montana could have gone to any team and took them to a SB... but then he went to an already playoff team in Kansas City and couldn't get them to a SB, so I'll say it again, HE FAILED in KC for whatever reason, END OF STORY! So just keep that statement of mine about ole Joe M, it shows the mentality you have

I doubt I have ever come across another person In as much denial as you are... at every aspect of every post of mine in this thread I prove you wrong and show that don't know what your talking about and your response is.. No, YOU in fact don't get it! I just proved Montana didn't INSTANTLY vastly improve the 1980 49ers and you disregard it. he went 2-5 and the team went 6-10 his first year. I just proved that Montana wasn't the only player on that 1981 team who played great, 3 defensive players made the pro bowl and the turnover ratio swung over 30 points in one year. I acknowledge that although Joe M had a great year, so did that 49er defense. You can't respond because you were proven wrong and can't accept it...

I can recall watching the 1980 Buffalo Bills playing the 49ers at Candlestick the last reg game of the season in a rainy muddy mess and they beat them 18-13. The Bills went 11-5 that season and were a pretty decent team under HC Chuck Knox. Joe M played pretty well in that game and I remember thinking this 49er team could be really good if they only had a decent secondary. The very next draft the 49ers drafted #1 pick DB Ronnie Lott- #2 pick DB Eric Wright-#3 pick DB Carlton Williamson- #5 pick DB Lynn Thomas. Needless to say he could have stopped drafting DB's after he got Ronnie Lott. The point is Walsh realized his secondary stunk and rebuilt it. The Niners also added Jack"hacksaw" Reynolds, and Fred Dean to the defense, Dwight Hicks had a more prominent role. Dean, Hicks and Lott all made the pro bowl. That 49er defense went from a MINUS -10.4 to a PLUS +23 turnover ratio from 80 to 81. So that elite 1981 SF 49er team wasn't just one guy or just the offense. Montana played 7 games in 1980 after taking over from Steve DeBerg. The 49ers went 6-10 in 1980 and didn't INSTANTLY vastly improve, his record was 2-5. It was the perfect match between coach and players and systems that elevated that 49er team. Yea, Joe M had some great comeback games in 81 and played great, but it was the result of the ENTIRE TEAM getting good.

I'm not getting mad at all, it is this kind of mentality that makes me laugh when I read your posts. I completely discredit everything you posted about my post and in your narrow minded view you still feel I put down your fav QB so I must be a fool. If you can ever actually read a post and grasp everything that is stated in it you would find that I have never disregarded Joe Montana. All I have ever stated is that I think he is one of the best ever QB's to play the game, BUT!, that had he gone to a poor team with bad coaches, bad system he would have failed just like Steve Young did at Tampa Bay for two years. A concept you agree with ...and at the same time can't comprehend because it is Joe Montana

Favre was a 2nd round draft pick and traded for a first round draft pick prior to his 2nd season...so where do you get he was a bench warming loser? I dont even know why I ask you because history shows you are incapable of a rational thought or post...I mean you are the same guy that said if Montana was drafted by a lousy team (which he was) then he would have been nothing... His first ever pass in the NFL in Atlanta was intercepted and returned for a TD. In Atlanta, Favre had become a whipping boy for flamboyant coach Jerry Glanville, who never approved of Herock's decision to draft him and once said during an exhibition game that it would take a plane crash for him to put Favre into the game. The more Glanville ignored the wild and unbridled Favre, the more Favre rebelled. According to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution story, Glanville had four rules: 1) Be on time. 2) Prepare all week to play. 3) Spill your guts on the field. 4) Only accept victory. "If he'd have got to 3 and 4, he'd have been fine," Glanville once told the paper. "But you had to get past 1 and 2." Favre's behavior was immature and unprofessional. He stayed out late, he showed up late and fell asleep in meetings. As he once said, "I'm sure I didn't help my cause by trying to drink up Atlanta." So yea, I'd say at 3rd string he was a bench warming loser. I suppose you will say that Mike Holmgren and the WCO had no influence on Brett Favre either, he did it all on his own... like Joe Montana. http://web.archive.org/web/20070929132210/....aspx?id=358097 John Elway won SB's because Shannahan brought zone blocking and created the best rushing scheme the league had seen and paired that with a HOF QB...Terell Davis was the difference maker in getting Elway over the hump... It was still the WCO that Elway was in under Mike Shanahan, the coach and the system made a difference. Although I'm surprised your not stating Elway did it all on his own. The rest of your post is so full of gibberish that I am not even going to bother responding to it all...I mean you are actually calling GB a WCO...geezus, your posts get more worthless every time I see you. GB has one of the biggest deep passing games in the NFL and constantly attacks in the mid range and long passing zones and is not a WCO Mike McCarthy is a WCO offensive disciple and although it isn't the exact same system Montana and Favre ran it is still the same philosophy, they pass to set up the run. I'm happy you don't like my posts... You have to be the biggest that posts in this forum. If others don't agree with you then you call them names and chastise them for it. I'm just very happy I don't know you in RL, and feel bad for the people who do.

He will get a call alright... from the turk

That same Bill Walsh 'west coast offense" that revolutionized an NFL offense into the greatest offensive scheme still played today. Steve Young went 2-14 for 2 years in TB, went to SF and won a SB and countless playoff games. Brett Favre, a bench warming loser in Atlanta goes to GB and under Mike Holmgren and the WCO wins a SB and becomes one of the greatest QB's ever. John Elway went to 3 SB's and lost them all and didn't win one until Mike Shanahan came to Denver and taught him the WCO, Elway went on to win 2x SB with Shanahan and the WCO. GB still utilizes the WCO and Aaron Rodgers studied under Brett Farve for 4 years and is now emerging as a top QB. Philly and Minnesota and now Washington uses the WCO. Jon Gruden won a SB with it and they still use it in TB as Greg Olsen is teaching Josh Freeman the WCO. The Browns will now utilize the WCO in Cleveland with Holmgren as Pres. Seattle went to the SB with Holgen as HC and used the WCO. Look who Joe Montana's coaches were in SF, Bill Walsh HC-Mike Holmgren OC-Andy Reid QC coach. Then look at the coaches who are in that Bill Walsh coaching tree. Mike Holmgren-Steve Mariucci-Andy Reid- Mike Sherman-Ray Rhodes-Brad Childress-Marty Mornhinweg-John harbaugh. Jim Fassel-John Fox Paul Hackett-Mike McCarthy- Jon Gruden-Bill Callahan Sam Wyche-Bruce Coslett-Mike Mularkey George Seifert- Mike Shanahan-Gary Kubiak-Jeff Fisher Dennis Green-Brian Billick-Mike Tice-Scott Linehan-Jack Del Rio-Mike Smith-Tony Gungy-Lovie Smith-Mike Tomlin-Rod Marinelli. -------------------------------------- Not for nothing but Trent Edwards played in a WCO while at Stanford AFAIK, so he should know that offense. -------------------------------------- The Theory behind the WCO is to pass first with short timed passes to set up the deeper passes and running game, rather then run to setup the pass. The key to Walsh's attack was the 3 step drop and precise timing routes run by the receivers. Precise timed routes run by the receivers...in Buffalo?... Look at who has been running the Buffalo Bills offense for the last 10 years, the OC's, the QB coaches the HC, and then tell me the Bills have been darn near dead last in offense for a decade solely because of lack of QB talent. The Bills haven't had a decent offensive mind in Buffalo since Ted Marchibroda, who taught Jim Kelly to call his own plays.

I could shiv two gits

I think at this point in his career all he wants is a SB ring. He is pulling a Michael Strahan / Brett Farve, best player by far on the defense...why does he need another long hot training camp.

Now see, why should the Bills screw themselves this season by not filling that LT position, why wait until 2010? Perhaps so they can draft Jake Locker next year...Now wouldn't it be truly sad if that happens and he turns out to be another Ryan leaf.

Every great team usually has a great GM-VP-HC who can properly evaluate talent, maybe the Bills have that guy in Buddy Nix...and maybe not. What leads me to think they may have the wrong guy is the fact that the night free agency opened, Nix stated he was going to bed instead of talking to players. The Bills have not made any big moves to shore up any part of the team with any high value free agent. I dunno, perhaps RW doesn't trust anyone under 70 anymore. All I do know is I'd rather have seen the Bills hire a bright young mind like the Falcons did in Thomas Demitroff, who they stole away from the Pats.

Take a long hard look at the Ravens and their offense and know that they beat the Patriots "IN" New England for a WC Playoff game with a dominate running attack and defense. The QB Flacco threw like 4 passes all game, all he did was hand the ball off to the RB's. The Bills by all rights should have had their eyes opened by that WC playoff game and model the team after the Ravens, while building the team in the exact same fashion. The Bills are not going to be effective with Bell or anyone else currently on the roster at LT. If the rest of the world can see and understand that, why can't Gailey and Nix?

I think the main thing that bothers me about this new regime is the way they are going about some of the positions. They stated something to the effect that they want to see what they have on their roster after Chan gailey has a chance to coach them up, perfectly understandable to a point. The problem is they have several O linemen coming off injuries and have them slotted to start and yet have no idea if they will even return to their previous form, which wasn't very good in Bells case. The lack of depth at LT is just sad and a really bad way to enter a season in which your trying to find out if your 3 QB's have the ability to properly compete. How can any of them properly compete when they are hamstrung by an inadequate O line?

All those years of bad drafts are the result of RW firing Bill Polian and then firing John Butler when he wouldn't resign, and Butler took AJ Smith with him when he left for SD. Then RW not finding the people competent enough to replace them... as he didn't want to pay Butler top dollars and he refuses to spend what he needs to, to hire top quality people. Bill Polian is the president of the Colts, who is president of the Buffalo Bills, need I say more about this? To the bolded part I say, BS... The idea that you need to rebuild for years is long gone, only losers like jauron take that much time and never seem to get it done. Look at the Atlanta Falcons and Miami Dolphins for examples, Like I stated eariler Bill Parcels took over a 1-15 Miami team, and looked over exactly what they needed and went about upgrading positions. The Dolphin fans were at first very unhappy that they didn't draft QB Matt Ryan #1 overall and took Jake Long LT instead. They drafted a DE #2 and a QB 3rd. Then he went in free agency and obtained vet QB Chad Pennington and he led them to the playoffs that very same year with that scrub washed up noodle armed QB that nobody else wanted. The Falcons were 4-12 under Bobby Petrino / Emmitt Thomas. they hire a new GM from the Patriots who hires Mike Smith and the very next year they are 11-5. by drafting exactly what they needed and obtaining the rest in free agency. So all this BS about rebuilding is exactly what it is, pure BS with more BS sprinkled in. Chan Gailey went to a 4-12 team to fix the offense and they went 2-14 instead and the HC gets fired. Then Gailey gets fired the next year just before the season starts because the newly hired rookie head coach didn't trust him to run his offense. The Bills hired another loser GM & HC and the fans are so desperate for a winner they are drinking the kool-aid like they are in a desert dying of thirst... only this kool-aid is from Jonestown. (ok that last part was perhaps a tad over the top) I give it to week 5 and then most of you will see what I already know.

You make sense in what you say, I just don't get an offensive minded man basically ignoring the second most important position on the offense. I think the Bills could win with Trent Edwards / any QB, if they are given the proper protection and enough time to throw and complete 5-7 step dropback passes when needed. What it looks like right now is that he is listening the wrong people telling him the line is fine or thinking the current players can get the job done. The Bills put a band-aid on the RT position and did nothing for the LT position except draft a player to develop in 2-3 years. As for your last statement, I'm pretty sure he has the last two years of game tape to watch and has seen what we have seen. The fact that he didn't properly focus on upgrading the O line to the point most NFL analysts think he should have tells me he is no better then jauron, and NOT the offensive messiah and franchise savior most of the posters defending him here think he is.

Maybe you don't hold their crappy performance against Chan, Herman Edwards just might. So, when the Bills go 2-14 this year like the Chiefs did, you can say. The Bills were HORRIBLE. I mean HORRIBLE. Nobody could polish that turd into a diamond. All this talk about the "pistol" offense has all the bills fans gushing about how good the team is going to be this year. This guy went to a team to coach up just the offense and they got worse, 2x as worse. When Bill Parcels took over a 1-15 Miami Dolphins he knew exactly what coaches to hire, what players to acquire, he got it done and went to the playoffs the very next year with a washed up veteran noodle armed QB in Chad Pennington. Gee, I wonder what position the Dolphins drafted with that #1 overall?

How in gods green earth do you figure this is a multi-year building project? How can you take it so casually that because this is a new head coach he automatically gets a multi year pass to rebuild. Every time the Bills hire a new head coach we fans have to endure the BS of constant rebuilding. Sorry but a decade of this rebuilding crap has worn me down. Yea, dickhead jauron rebuilt for 4 years and look where it took the team, then he states that the team lacks talent...when he was the one responsable for obtaining the talent This team was 3-5 players away from becoming a very good team, aside from the obvious upgrades needed at coaching positions. Even if you can't find those 3-5 players in the draft there is always free agency. If you can't find 5 adaquate starters thru the draft and free agency then you don't deserve the job as head coach / GM of anything. The Bills threw a 5th round pick at their most glaring need and drafted a "water-bug" RB instead. Last season dickhead jauron drafted a 3 year project DE and look where it got him.