thewildrabbit

I mentioned in past threads Brohm didn't show great deep ball arm strength as his deep throws were under thrown and intercepted in that Atlanta game, probably why the Packers decided to put him on the practice squad in the first place. Here is the link to the mentioned quote in the post above: ""In a seven-on-seven drill, Brohm took fewer snaps than rookie project Levi Brown. "" http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...-qb-nod-for-now I wouldn't cry to long and hard over the pecking order at QB, the O line is still very suspect and no QB will last very long if Gailey starts calling for deep passing plays. Pretty sure all you Trent haters will get your chance to watch how Brohm performs this season.

Per ESPN http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/...camp-as-no-1-qb ""Trent Edwards took the first snaps of camp behind a starting line of left tackle Demetrius Bell, left guard Andy Levitre, center Geoff Hangartner, right guard Eric Wood and right tackle Cornell Green. Fred Jackson was the running back. About 10 minutes into the workout at St. John Fisher College, Ryan Fitzpatrick quarterbacked the second unit, leaving Brian Brohm with the third string. "" commence bitching....

Darryl Talley, no question. Ultimate lunch pail blue collar type of player, did his job behind Bruce Smith who got all the glory while Talley made all the tackles. He is the Bills' all-time leading tackler with 1,137, and also recorded 38.5 sacks, 12 interceptions for 189 return yards and 2 touchdowns, and 14 fumble recoveries for 76 return yards. He averaged 120 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 6.2 takeaways per season and his mark of 188 regular season games played ranks fifth-most in team history. He NEVER missed a game in his 12 year career with the Bills

The offense should look very different in my opinion, and if Chan Gailey is worth a crap he should be able to put the receivers in positions to make plays. TO gave Buffalo that deep threat to take pressure away from Lee Evans and open up some mid to deep throws. The problem was the scheme more then anything else in my view, the bad coaching, play calling and bad play from the tackles didn't help either. Without TO the Bills will now have no prominent second receiver, will Hardy or Johnson be able to step and fill that spot? What happens if neither of those two can get the job done, what then?

He did well for the Buffalo Bills, it wasn't his fault ole dick head coach cut O linemen and the OC just before the season started. If he could catch 55 passes in that podunk offense the Bills fielded last season, just imagine what he could have done with a good scheme, OC and play calling. He did his job and said all the right things in Buffalo... so yea, wish him well in Cincy.

On the Contrary, all it took was back to back 2-14 seasons in 84-85 to spur some change, and the GM having a heart attack, then Bill Polian in 1986 to supplant that GM to start the Bills to a rather speedy recovery. HC Chuck Knox left after 1982 a strike season 4-5, and the Bills Hired Kay Stephenson in 1983, and they went 8-8 with mostly players from Knox's regime. In 1983 the Bills did manage to draft TE Tony Hunter #1(12) along with Jim Kelly #1(14) who bailed to the USFL and then Darryl Tally with a #2, the rest of the draft was a bunch of nobody's. The squirrel found two nuts in this years draft in Jim Kelly and Darryl Tally. In 1984 the Bills had Kay Stephenson as head coach, that years draft included #1 RB Greg Bell-#2 WR Eric Richardson, 3-3rd round picks in DB Rodney Bellinger-DE Sean McNanie-RB Speedy Neal and a bunch of nobody's. In 1985 the Bills got the first overall pick and selected DE Bruce Smith, then in round 4 picked WR Andre Reed. In 1986 the Bills fired HC Kay Stephenson and hired Hank Bullough who started off the year at 2-7 and was fired, the Bills hired Marv levy who went 2-5. The Bills finished that season 4-12. In 1987 the #1 was Shane Conlan #2 Nate Odomes, the Bills only went 7-8 but you could clearly see the turnaround in the team. The team made a "blockbuster" trade deal around Halloween to acquire Cornelius Bennett from the Colts. Marv Levy's statement, "we want to get as good as we can, as fast as we can" So, the Bills got extremely lucky in finding Bill Polian to rebuild the Bills 1986 4-12 to 1988 and 12-4, two years. They also pretty much hit rock bottom the prior two years to propel the team to a #1 overall draft choice to find Bruce Smith. I suspect that the Bills will look horrid this season and pretty much hit rock bottom, lets hope they get that #1 overall and select Jake Locker

Calling Bob Mathews a moron is an insult to the morons of the world, he makes Dick Jauron look like a genius. The Vegas odds for the Bills to win the super bowl this year are 100+ to 1, some are saying that it should be more like 250 to 1 because they aren't sure if the Bills will be in Buffalo or Toronto in two years. 20 to 1 to win the division this season, some think they won't win two games in the division.

I voted the same... Three years and ya know what, if nothing changes with ownership in the next three years it will be another overhaul and rebuilding. Another new head coach, new GM, same old crapola.

I think in that one sentence the writer favors Brohm over the others. I admit I've not watched the OTA's or mini camps this year. However, I did watch all of them play in real games last year and from what I saw Trent Edwards has the quickest release and most accuracy when completely healthy. Brohm has questionable deep arm strength as he drastically under threw TO on the long throws in that Atlanta game and was intercepted because of it, and Fitzpatrick can be wildly inaccurate at times. Stating that, I could care less who starts and who doesn't, but I just don't see the Bills cutting Trent Edwards like the writer states, If any of the three get cut I could see Fitzpatrick going because of his errant wild throws. Whomever starts this season might not actually be the lucky one as the QB's will all still be learning a new system, as will the RB's,receivers and O linemen. Meaning that the starting QB will most likely take a heavy pounding until that offense gains some cohesion. Who really knows at this point if Chan Gailey has some magic he can work to improve the young QB's, time will tell.

Well, the QB's should actually look better then last season as they are now being taught properly, and when they make mistakes Gailey will be able to correct them. The offense overall should look better in terms of scheme and technique and should score more points. Better passing yardage and completion percentage and more yards gained. So yea, the offense and QB's should look better then last season. The offense will be limited to a short passing game and will run the ball more effectively, if Gailey can wear his O line coach hat and help the young inexperienced O line develop they should improve as a unit as the season goes on instead of imploding like they did last season. The problem with the offense is that they will have no deep passing game until the tackles learn to play better, which could happen during the season as the line gains continuity. Another problem I see is the defense is learning an entire new scheme and although they have some great players in that secondary, they will still be unable to stop the run or stop opponents from scoring until they learn that defense. Dom Capers is in GB and Mike Nolan is with the Dolphins, who is teaching this team the 3-4... oh yea, the LB coach from the Dolphins. Most Bills fans never realized the "gifts" that was handed to them the last few years in the division and with a moron for a head coach in Dick Jauron the Bills were unable to exploit those "gifts". GIFT-Tom Brady going from an almost undefeated- unbelievable passing season to being knocked out for the year and being replaced by a guy who hadn't played football since high school. Then last season with Brady still somewhat rehabbing and with his brilliant young OC now coaching in Denver, the Bills still can't get by weakened Patriot teams. GIFT- Miami Dolphins go 1-15 and turn over the entire staff, then they hire Bill Parcells. But still with the Dolphins changing coaches-players-schemes you would think the Bills could easily exploit them and dominate them, oh wait I forgot...DJ was the HC and not Marv. GIFT- The Jets fire Eric Manginni, the mangenius... even though he took his team to the playoffs and built a very solid O line with the best running game in the NFL. The Jets have Brett Farve as QB and can't understand to limit his throwing when he is injured, and even with the best running game in the NFL they can't stop trying to make Farve win games for them. So with the team in turmoil after the HC is fired and with a rookie QB starting the Bills easily sweep the Jets...oh wait I forgot again. The only reason the Bills even came close to a winning record under the moron Jauron is because the other teams in the division were going through some serious changes. Those gifts to the Buffalo Bills have stopped and now they face some really improved teams with some very bright coaches leading them. Patriots with Brady are still the team to beat in the division, Bill Belichick will soon train his new OC up to par, and if ever given the chance again to focus completely on the defense and rebuilding that unit properly the Patriots will again rule the AFC. The Dolphins under Parcells are about to explode into national attention with wins as that offense now has one of the best passing weapons in the AFC in Brandon Marshall, AND the defense now has Mike Nolan running his amazing 3-4 scheme. So the phins not being able to score and stop other teams in the red zone will now reverse their fortunes. The Jets will improve as Mark Sanchez gains experience and the only doubts I have about that offense is if they will still be the dominate running team in the division as they let go their best RB's. There is no question that their defense will be stifling and should dominate like the Raven's do. So in summation, the Bills offense will improve stat wise this season even with some serious flaws in the O line and receiver corps. The defense will play less then great as teams will still run on them and score until that defense gets it together, if they can under a new DC. The Bills went from some of the weakest schedules under Jauron to one of the hardest under Gailey, 3-13 seems about right.

He lost me on the part of how disappointing it was last season that Trent Edwards didn't develop into a franchise QB, how could any QB develop under Dick Jauron/AVP? If anything all the QB's development was stunted playing for that staff of clowns, and all the QB's should look significantly better this year. I could care less who starts at QB and who doesn't, as I don't see much success this season and agree with the writers assessment of 3-13.

I can understand why someone would think the man is not cheap, after all he did throw 6 million dollars at TO, among others. The TO addition did fill the stadium seats and give the fans high expectations for the season. A one year experiment which HC DJ completely sabotaged with his stupidity, by firing his OC and cutting his O linemen two weeks before the season started. As stupid as those moves were, what imbecile was in position above Jauron and allowed those things to transpire, did he have nobody to answer to? Perhaps we should change the topic of this thread to "Ralph isn't bright" because you are correct in the fact that he does spend money, just on the wrong people and for the wrong reasons. Anyone who thinks that Chan Gailey as the Buffalo Bills head coach is going to lead this team to the playoffs anytime soon is just...how can I say? delusional.

I can point to specific times in the history of the Bills in which I can literally prove that the man didn't pay his coach / GM accordingly and you guys conveniently state... oh well, we all knew he was cheap that decade. He still refuses to pay top dollar for a name coach, and from what history has shown us he won't until the fans stop buying tickets. The Bills will continue to lose until Ralph Wilson steps up and hires another great coach/GM. After last season Ralph Wilson or someone at OBD let slip a rumor that the team would pay 10 million a year to hire a top name coach like Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan, both known great coaches with super bowl wins on their resume. When the smoke cleared the Bills hired a guy to be the head coach who was fired as a coordinator in his last job, and the offense he coached went 2-14... anyway you spin it, its the cold hard truth. Finding the best possible GM /head coach for the franchise should always be the primary goal. The question is, did RW find the best possible head coach / GM for the team this time around? I have doubts about both because the assistant coaches hired lack NFL experience, and the O line basically stayed the same as the one that played horrifically last season.

Just to add one more note in this thread about the subject at hand, Ralph isn't cheap! The entire decade of the 70's was lost as the Bills didn't beat the Miami Dolphins once in that entire ten year span, TEN YEARS! Ralph Wilson finally hired a name head coach in Chuck Knox and that man built a bad Buffalo Bills team into a playoff team. Knox took over a team that won 5 games out of the last 28. From an article: ""I was very impressed with the atmosphere in Buffalo. The Bills fans are really great fans. When I first started coaching in Buffalo, they had only sold 18,000 season tickets, and we could not even get a home preseason game because people would not come out to see it. But that changed once we won the division with an 11-5 record in 1981…we were selling the place out and it has been that way ever since."" http://www.legendschannel.com/chuck-knox-d...-buffalo-bills/ Anyone care to revisit the reason as to why Chuck Knox didn't stay in Buffalo, let me refresh your memories! ""After a 4-5 strike-shortened season in 1982, Knox failed to come to terms on a new contract with team owner Ralph Wison and left to accept the head coaching position with the Seahawks "" http://www.biographicon.com/view/7wjz0/Chuck_Knox After he left Buffalo, Chuck Knox called Buffalo a "coaches graveyard"...wonder why? You Ralph lovers can visualize the past anyway you like, just get a grip on reality as this owner is his own worst enemy...and ours, the fans.

You might be right about all the perks with the Chargers... then again Ralph Wilson has shown that he can't get along with anyone for very long. Bill Polian didn't choose to leave for Carolina, he was fired by Ralph Wilson. ""On February 4, 1993, after the Bills had appeared in their 3rd straight Super Bowl, Polian was fired as general manager. Polian wasn't fired because he wasn't doing a good job, he was fired because he didn't get along with treasurer, Jeff Littmann, for reasons unknown to all except those close to owner Wilson, Littmann and Polian himself."" http://www.biographicon.com/view/ot9vb How were they suspect? The owner of the Colts realized what Polian could do with a franchise given the fact that Polian built the Buffalo Bills into a powerhouse and that Panther team from inception to the NFC playoffs in TWO YEARS! So Jim Irsay hired him away from Carolina where he was the GM, with a promotion from GM, to the GM / President , basically giving him free reign to run the Indianapolis Colts.

In other posts in this thread I mentioned that Polian was always fighting with Littman and Wilson to to get them to spend money on players and stadium upgrades. I can only imagine that Butler saw what Polian went through and also had to endure some of that himself, so even though the final offer from Wilson might have been somewhat fair, was it worth it to stay in Buffalo or move on to work for a different owner... A quote from that article: ""Wilson's cantankerous ways are well known. But his approach this time was curious, to say the least. With one game remaining in the team's season, in essence he told Butler: "If I can't hire you, I'll fire you." "" http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_ga...s_insider_1220/ Like I mentioned in another post in this thread, Bill Polian went on to have an good relationship with the owner of the Panthers and Colts, that Colt team has been in the playoffs the last ten years and the SB twice. He was GM of the Carolina Panthers 1994-1996, from inception of a new franchise to the NFC championship game in two years, he left the Panthers and the Colts hired him as GM & President. Honestly, its a damn shame that Mr cantankerous & Polian couldn't work out their differences, think of the twenty+ years of winning that could have been

You ignore me and call me a coward because YOU can't backup anything you say. Sounds like you are the coward, retreating into your world because someone confronted you asking for proof The links I posted are from when John Butler was fired, we are talking about the same time period, except I have proof to back up what I say. Fine, ignore me and put your head in sand, it doesn't alter the fact that you spew BS and refuse to back it up.

Dunno why you quote me and then reinforce the points I've made, but ok.. Here is a part of the story linked above: But the facts are these: Wilson's contract offers weren't competitive. Despite being one of the most accomplished GM's in the league, and a shrewd judge of personnel, Butler's current salary was about $500,000, putting him in the lower third among his NFL peers. Wilson's last offer was in the range of $1 million, or even a little less than that, a figure he said was the average of the eight highest-paid general managers in the league. With Green Bay's Ron Wolf setting the bar in the league at $2.2 million per year, and Colts GM Bill Polian earning a reported $1.3 million, Butler, 54, was in line for more than $1 million per year. Butler wasn't looking to hold the small-market Bills hostage, but he didn't accept Wilson's contract offers because he didn't believe they were in the ballpark. These facts are hard to argue over, but I'm certain some of you Ralph lovers will try...

Well enough of your BS, how about you provide a link that has proof of what your talking about, otherwise your just spewing crap around based on your opinion of how you think things happened in the past.

Where do you guys get this stuff...I have never read anything about Butler not wanting to be a GM, more then likely he was tired of working for an owner that he would need to fight with to bring in top talent, or fight with to keep top talent on the team. John Butler was very much under paid and he knew it, he refused to sign a new contract and preferred to test the open market for his services. Ralph Wilson got mad that Butler wouldn't sign and fired him in December before the season had even ended. I provided these links in an eariler post in this thread http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...80678/20001219/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/19/...ain258412.shtml Kinda odd that Bill Polian could not only get along as GM with Jim Irsay the owner of the Colts for 10+ years, but he was promoted to president and hired his son to be GM. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't need to fight with the owner of the Colts to bring in top talent, or put a new scoreboard in the stadium.

Yea... I think Marty got the shaft after one season with the Redskins as HC because Snyder the owner couldn't wait to hire Steve Spurrier, which is funny because that experiment was a total failure. To the bolded part. The problem with Marty and the Chargers was all about GM A.J.Smith, who has shown that he has trouble getting along with lots of other people if they don't see things his way. Smith didn't like the idea of Marty hiring his son as the Chargers OC,which as it turns out would not have been a bad thing considering the Jets beat the Chargers in the playoffs with Marty's son as OC of the Jets. Kind of Ironic huh...

First of all, I'm not defending the man, just pointing out that calling him a loser by any definition of the word is simply nonsensical. Besides, what does he care what you call him, I'll bet he sits at his home, smiles and recalls his days of winning 2 AFL championships, being the sole owner of the Buffalo Bills all these years. Clearly the man cares more about his bottom line the he does about winning championships, his team... his prerogative. More then likely he probably takes more pride in the fact that his team makes a profit every year in one of the smallest market's in the NFL then he would if he won the division every year. To be honest I can't understand his thought process at all, to me winning is everything. I couldn't tolerate a losing team for long, this man let the entire decade of the 70's slip by him, and now 2000-2010 with no playoffs, another full ten years of losing with only 2 seasons at 8-8 and one at 9-7. If I owned the Buffalo Bills I'd spend every extra dollar I could to put a good head coach on the team, and a top GM to run the organization for me, as a good coach and GM can find and make players great. My choice as owner would have been Marty Schottheimer for HC, he really wanted the job and would have hired his son away from the Jets to run the offense. The guy has a history of resurrecting bad teams into winners and deserves another shot at the big prize, I'd give it to him. He is a supreme motivator and would get the most out of his players, along with a top GM to find the players and run the team I have no doubts the team would be headed to the playoffs.

Ralph Wilson has accomplished more in his life then anyone on this board could even dream of... much less match In age, wealth, and as owner of one of only 32 NFL teams in the world. To call this man a loser simply reflects that same name back at the person stating it. The problem with the Buffalo Bills as I see it is that RW only takes steps when the fans stop buying seats. It took an entire decade of losing to the Miami Dolphins. yea that's right...the Bills didn't beat the Dolphins for ten straight years, the entire decade of the 70's was lost before the owner made a strong coaching hire in Chuck Knox. The only reason he took those steps is because the stadium seats were no longer filled. Those back to back 2-14 seasons, It was a sad time for Bills fans to see the stadium half filled at home games and many sitting there with bags on their heads, which finally prompted Ralph Wilson to make coaching changes. Even the back to back 2-14 seasons in the mid 80's didn't propel Wilson to make a strong coaching hire, he basically got very lucky with the current GM at the time having a heart attack and the team let the director of pro personnel (Bill Polian) and the scouting director were asked to sign the 1st round pick in Bruce Smith. Polian so impressed with those contract negotiations that RW fired the guy with the heart attack and hired Bill Polian to GM, the rest is history. You can say in frustration that Ralph is cheap, or the he hires idiots that make bad decisions, the facts are that Bill owner appears to only make bold hires and changes to the team and front office when the team is in jeopardy of losing its fan base, which means the team is in jeopardy of losing money. Most of the realists on this board can see this team at the bottom of the division again this season, and yet the team has announced they have sold out several home games. So until the fans stop buying tickets for home games... You guys can cry, stomp, piss, B word and moan and it will change nothing, history has shown that the Buffalo Bills will remain a losing franchise until there is great fear that the team won't meet its monetary goals.

I completely disagree, Payton is in a class by himself as he is very innovative in the N.O. offense. He thinks up new plays and designs his offense to continually change so it isn't predictable. Granted, Drew Brees is a huge part of that passing offense, but I think Payton would be successful with almost any decent top QB. I also think he could find and coach up another QB to the level of play that we see from Brees. Both Mularkey and Williams had their shot at HC and stunk it up because they made bad decisions, lets not forget who removed Rusty Jones as S&C trainer and replaced him Mr constant injuries. Personally, I would have liked to see Mularkey stay in Buffalo and run his offense without TD looking over his shoulder and micro managing his every move, who knows what he could have accomplished. Still, I feel both men might just get another shot at becoming head coaches again, I simply just don't see the innovation and wherewithal to run an entire team the way Sean Payton has shown.

Interesting reading about how Butler left the Bills http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/19/...ain258412.shtml ""Butler was reportedly making $500,000 US with the Bills -- a bargain by NFL standards"" http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...80678/20001219/ ""On the field, the Bills suffered from a porous offensive line, dreadful special teams and an offensive plan that seemed designed to cripple Johnson, the strong-armed quarterback whose inability to get rid of the ball has hurt him week after week."" Jeez does that sound eerily familiar...Bledsoe...JP...the more things change, the more they stay the same