thewildrabbit

Yea well, in his 2 years at Arizona he only managed 1193 yards, 357 carries at a 3.3 ypc, the better the team he was on the better his YPC. Smith played 15 years, 4409 carries, 18355 yards, 4.2 YPC on good & great teams, the Cowboys made the playoffs 9 times and won the SB 3 times Payton played 13 years 3838 carries, 16726 yards, 4.4 YPC on mostly bad teams, he made the playoffs 4 times. one SB win Barry Sanders played 10 years, 3062 carries, 15269 yards 5.0 YPC on mostly bad teams. he made the playoffs 3 times during his career with the Lions... Sanders made the pro bowl every year he played for the Lions, all 10 years Sanders could have kept playing but he retired ""Sanders finally admitted that the culture of losing in the Lions' organization was too much to deal with even though he said that he could still play"" He explained that it robbed him of his competitive spirit, and he saw no reason to believe things were going to improve"' Just saying, I gotta wonder what kind of numbers Barry Sanders could have put up playing on those great Cowboy SB teams

Johnson and Peterson HAD one of the best lines, lets see what they do this year. You mean like Freddy Jackson BTW, both Barry Sanders and Walter Payton had some really really bad O lines...bad coaches, bad teams, bad QB's and still were great RB's Emmitt Smith might have broken Payton's all time rushing record but he did it behind a great O line, with a great team and great QB. look what happened when he went to Arizona

The Bills failed with Trent Edwards, they failed with JP Losman, they failed with just about every QB they have brought into the team in the last 15 years since Jim Kelly. The last 10 years the Bills have had 12+ QB's- 40+ O linemen and the turnover just keeps going on and on.....this team goes thru QB's like they are disposable. Although Fitz had a pretty good year last season considering how bad his line was, injured starting WR's, no TE and Spiller a dud in blocking. I suspect that Fitz will be this years casualty ....he will suffer several injuries and concussions, and everyone will say after the season that Fitz always sucked Until this franchise can build a stable offensive line that can actually protect the QB, bring in players that have careers longer then the lifespan of a gnat. The Bills will never be able to develop or maintain a competent QB.

Mike Williams certainly didn't live up to his potential, but still the guy did start for the Bills for 4 years and had 47 game starts at RT. Both Maybin and McCargo were the worst first rounder's ever IMO. Maybin was drafted to be a pass rusher, and had zero sacks during his time in Buffalo. The Bills traded up into the first round to take a guy most other teams had pegged as a 3rd- 4th rounder, McCargo in 5 years he had ONE game start Spiller still may prove his worth, he just needs to watch FJ and learn

The entire point of my posts on this subject concern the statement made by you that has absolutely no truth to it, and it is total speculation by you and others. When, where, how? I'm still waiting for you to provide proof to back up this statement, and don't link the SI Don Banks article because all Banks does is speculate as to other reasons why Butler left When you talk of perception...its what you most everyone else doesn't get, JB loved the Buffalo area and liked working for RW and the Buffalo Bills. This is what compounds the idiotic move by RW to fire him. He found a man who actually liked working for him, unlike Chuck Knox-Bill Polian and so many others

or the next 3... Face it, the guy showed flashes when he took the Bills to 3 comeback wins at the start of that 5-1 season in 2008, you know the one where DJ got the extension The Bills ruined the guy with the wrong system, bad O lines and crap offensive coaches, probably why Chan Gailey wasted an off season trying to correct the faults instilled by the previous coaches. P.S. To those clueless fans who know nothing about concussions and their devastating effects, the NFL has changed it guidelines on how to handle them since Edwards was severely concussed in Arizona. Knowing how lame Jauron and his staff were about everything, its easy to see that they let him return to play way to soon. http://www.necn.com/...680&feedID=3352 http://www.nytimes.c...concussion.html http://espn.go.com/n...nfl-concussions http://www.nfl.com/n...rom-last-season http://www.nfl.com/n...sment-protocol-

It really is sad that fans have such low expectations for this team...8-8 would finally be an upgrade over Dick Jauron tho...still sad

If Vick is worth 100 million ...then Fitz is worth 50 million ...pay up Ralphie!

IDC who it is as long as they spend money on good coaches, a good president and GM and doesn't meddle into the football side like RW-Al Davis-Jerry Jones

Yea I agree, Freddy is very Thurman-esque as the guy can do it all. What stinks is tho is he is way underpaid for what he has done. Face it he was better then #1 pick Marshawn Lynch and tremendously better then CJ can'tfindahole. Plus, he has been hidden from success and notoriety in a crap Buffalo offense the last few years. But that is the way this franchise treats the great players they find that aren't #1 picks To those that think FJ sisn't that good, just remember this RB makes the first 2 tacklers miss and makes his yards despite a bad O line. The last few years I keep getting reminded in this forum how good the line has been because the running game has a good YPA and rates in the top 15. I watched Lynch time after time get tackled behind the LoS and carry 3 guys on him to make yards, FJ breaks the tackles and gets his yardage despite the line.

IMO It all will depend on the opposing teams pass rush, looking how they played against the Bronco's and Jags it was easy to see. The Jags have almost no rush, they didn't bump the receivers and don't have great CB's, didn't look like they game planned for the Bills either. Conversely the Bronco's did all those things and dominated the Bills 1st string. Teams with a good pass rush should all beat the Bills. I see 4-12 again, only beating the Titans-Bengals-Raiders and perhaps the Chiefs or Dolphins once. Buffalo could start the season 3-1 and look awesome...then fall on their face

It doesn't get any plainer then a direct quote from you, you stated : Which Butler never did state that, that I'm aware of. If you have viable proof in a link that states it came directly from him... then post it. Butler stated he loved the area, loved working the Bills and had no plans to leave. He was shocked when the owner fired him. .. P.S. What bothers me about this whole issue is everyone paints John Butler as someone who didn't love his job as GM of the Buffalo Bills, someone who didn't like working for Ralph Wilson or get along with the him. When the facts are the only animosity that I know of came from Ralph Wilson himself, and he should have made Butler one of, if not the highest paid GM's in the league, instead of firing him.

Whether Merriman can stay healthy all year is a big quesion, Nick Barnett was hurt last year and Morrision wasn't wanted by any other team. It appears that other teams trash suddenly becomes Buffalo Bills gold, at least to some fans. There was a reason why SD didn't care to keep SM, there was a reason GB didn't care to keep NB, there was a reason that the Jags didn't offer KM a contract, nor did any other team. Lee Evans was Buffalo's #1 WR and opposing teams rolled coverages to him because he could burn them on any play. Because of Evans getting more attention from opposing defenses that left Stevie Johnson singled most of the time. Did any of you watch the last two games of the season with the supposed good stable O line? The Jets and Patriots literally destroyed the Bills in those games. Spiller is still very suspect, the run game only has one good player atm. It won't matter because the bills will try and throw the ball 80% of the time. Yea, I agree. The Bills could very well be scary bad this year.

You're opinion ? Because that is far from accurate! Under Butler: The Bills are the NFL's best example of a successful team built through the draft and minimal free-agent signings. The Bills have had an average draft position of 22nd in each round since Butler replaced Bill Polian as general manager in 1993, yet have made the playoffs in five of those eight seasons. The Bills also had an NFL-high 18 draft picks filling 22 starting positions this season. You both are stating that Butler signed a "quick" contract with the Chargers, do you have a link to verify what you say or is this this pure speculation? The Chargers owner isn't a fool like RW, he saw the production from a GM on the field in Buffalo and realized his team was lacking talent necessary to win so he hired Butler. I'll bet the offer was far superior to anything Wilson offered him. From what I read that John Butler stated, he liked working for the Bills and liked living in the area (something not many will admit to) which is contrary to what you posted. If you guys want to believe opinions, speculations and hearsay then feel free. For me it doesn't get much better then a direct interview with the man in question, clear cut and concise.

Did you read the entire article? .NFN but you don't take John Butler for his word when he states he was shocked by his firing? He loved working for the Bills and he loved the area. You stated Butler " made it more known that he found it intolerable working for the meddling owner and his constant harping about costs. He was simply fed up with the way owner operated." The author Don Banks implies there might have been other factors, but Butler stated he didn't think Wilson's offer was competitive was the reason he didn't sign right away. He also states that the only other reason he didn't sign was because the season was still going on, games were being played, and he wanted to sit down after the season to negotiate. Basically what I stated in my first post that you disagreed with. I tend to believe the man when he stated he wanted to stay with the Buffalo Bills, and had no intention to leave or had contact with other teams until after he was fired It would be great If you can link what Mort stated, was it his opinion or JB's actual statement? I tend to believe an article written directly from a personal interview rather then various opinions. Anyway, we both agree Wilson being the impatient cantankerous old fool that he is, did in fact screw himself and the fans when he fired Butler.

I disagree, in one of Nix's first statements he said " we are not that far away" What he didn't realize is that the HC he hired went out and hired mostly college assistants to coach the team, and in doing so elongated the process of building a winner right away.

Howabout Don Banks version? I recall reading this article, glad I could find it. http://sportsillustr...s_insider_1220/ ""But the facts are these: Wilson's contract offers weren't competitive. Despite being one of the most accomplished GM's in the league, and a shrewd judge of personnel, Butler's current salary was about $500,000, putting him in the lower third among his NFL peers. Wilson's last offer was in the range of $1 million, or even a little less than that, a figure he said was the average of the eight highest-paid general managers in the league."" With Green Bay's Ron Wolf setting the bar in the league at $2.2 million per year, and Colts GM Bill Polian earning a reported $1.3 million, Butler, 54, was in line for more than $1 million per year. Butler wasn't looking to hold the small-market Bills hostage, but he didn't accept Wilson's contract offers because he didn't believe they were in the ballpark."" "'Butler contends that he didn't see Wilson's axe coming, and takes exception with the perception that he was planning to draw Wilson into a bidding war for his services. "I really didn't think this was a possibility, because I'm still under contract until Feb. 28," said Butler, the Bills' general manager since 1993. "I could see it was really pressing on him in the last couple of days. But really, it takes two to be comfortable. I thought the best time to talk was at the conclusion of the season, when you sit down without emotions running so high. I didn't see where there was going to be any harm to the franchise in doing that." How Butler felt about Buffalo.... "I'm experiencing things for the first time," Butler told CNNSI.com on Wednesday afternoon. "You know, 14 years is a long time. It's tough to leave when you've been some place for so long. It has been a wonderful place." From what I read Butler loved working for the Buffalo Bills and loved the area and didn't have any plans to leave, he simply wanted a competitive wage

What happened was that at the end of the season John Butlers contract was up and the owner offered him a new contract, a contract that Wilson thought was fair. When Butler didn't immediately accept Ralph Wilson's offer his response was "if I can't hire you, then I'll fire you!" Which sort of shocked everyone because this happened in December and the season wasn't even over yet. Butler probably thought he had until the end of the season to make up his mind, after all relocating and moving the family around is a big deal to some, and from what I recall he liked working for Wilson and liked living in Buffalo. Under Butler: The Bills are the NFL's best example of a successful team built through the draft and minimal free-agent signings. The Bills have had an average draft position of 22nd in each round since Butler replaced Bill Polian as general manager in 1993, yet have made the playoffs in five of those eight seasons. The Bills also had an NFL-high 18 draft picks filling 22 starting positions this season. So because Butler didn't immediately sign the offer that Wilson thought was fair, Wilson fired him...and cut his own throat in the process. This owner has had a notoriously cantankerous disposition towards some of the people who worked for him. It might explain as to why so many have refused jobs offered by him, and why some ended up leaving.

I think the owner should be smooching the butts of every devoted bills fan out there for keeping him in business and filling his pockets Kinda like the line in Braveheart, he thinks we are here to serve him and keep him profitable. I think he is here with an obligation to build the best football team that his profits allow, he hasn't done that....except with Polian as GM! My take is he has many expensive hobbies like horse breeding, racing and the profits he takes from the Bills allows him to live in luxury and keep his many toys. I've lived all over the country and been a fan of many teams, but have been a Bills fan the longest. I used to think that the Lions-Cardinals were the worst run football org's in the NFL....without question its now the Buffalo Bills. I'd rather have no NFL team in the area then an inferior product because the owner doesn't care if his team wins or not, as long as it makes a profit he is happy and content Buffalo Bills fans define the word fanatic because they are so devoted and passionate about their team, they deserve better then what has been given to them the last decade. The Wilson family selling this franchise can't happen soon enough in my view.

Not from my view, Bill Polian was almost always in the news back then because he was fighting with Littman and the owner for basically everything, stadium improvements, drafting players, signing FA's... the Bills won despite the owner and Littman. Look whats happened to the team since Polian left! Looking at what Bill Polian managed to do with the Bills, Panthers and Colts he is arguably the NFL's most brilliant GM / president in the last 30 years, and RW fired him He also fired John Butler and lost AJ Smith in doing so, 3 of the very best talent evaluators the NFL has ever seen. Because of those firings the Bills went thru over a decade of ineptitude and incompetence. On the bright side...the stadium has been filled year after year and RW made a bunch of money

He could stick a bonfire up there and it isn't going to suddenly give them talent they don't already possess....

Good point, one of the things that Chuck Knox did to help make the young players believe they can win was to bring in some very experienced "rah rah" type players. Guys like Phil Villapiano- Conrad Dobler-Isiah Robinson to bring in veteran leadership to the team Gailey also mentioned he was going to bring toughness to the team, what he failed to realize is that the players loved jauron and played their hearts out for him, the team didn't lack toughness. It lacked a progressive passing offense and a run stuffing defense. what Jauron's problem was his crappy schemes, Tampa 2 and Martz passing offense both were out dated and stunk. What gets me is that key piece to run the Tampa 2 was that stud OLB that Jauron never drafted, he was always to busy drafting DB's

here here

Naa, sometimes it takes awhile for players to finally get it. Jamaal Charles for example had a bad first year, he was a 3rd round pick in 2008 so expectations were not that high for him his first year. Still he managed better then 5 yds per carry that first year. Combine times, Charles ran a 4.29 Chris Johnson ran a 4.24 Spiller 4.37 He has some serious speed if he can get in the open. I look at the coaches / GM failure to upgrade the O line to enhance his ability.

Don't forget the other half of the posters who want Tyler Thigpin as the starter... because he was decent against Denver's 3rd stringers. That team had the very worst defense in the NFL last year, I gotta think that 3rd string bunch has gotta be pretty bad. Honestly, I'm all for Brad Smith as QB, it will save Fitz from a horrific pounding this season. I would root for that if I didn't know that Fitz really wants to be a starter going into the season, poor guy.