thewildrabbit

Last game against the Dolphins Chandler had 6 targets, 5 catches for 71 yards.This was the most this season for Chandler. My questions is...WHY ONLY SIX passes his way? I know Gailey is not known for utilizing his TE much and it seems like Chandler is only seeing about half the offensive plays where he is involved in the passing scheme. But just double his total targets at 12, 10 catches for 140 yards and holy crap an actual passing threat for the entire game I just don't get why he isn't more involved in the offense as a primary target! Yea he stays in to block for running plays, and is on the field for a lot of the offensive plays, just not as the primary.

The O line is in shambles because this offensive minded HC decided to switch to a 3-4 and then drafted heavily for the defense the last two years, while basically ignoring the O line. So if the line is in shambles who's fault is that.... the HC & GM, that's who's fault it is!!. This team went into the season with no backup at center, they had one in Geoff Hangartner but cut him. They went into the season with one experienced LT who has always been injured and a rookie as his only backup, who's fault is that? Both Nix and Gailey KNEW they needed upgrades on the line, its why they went after Tyson Clybo in the off season, these two old fools made their bed and are most certainly responsible for the lack of depth on that line. Dick Jauron was most certainly an offensive moron and his Tampa 2 defense was always bad against the run! However, as bad as he was he had the pass defense in the top 5 his last two years with the team, and got the team to 7-9. As bad as Jauron's defense against the run was, Gaileys defense set a Buffalo Bills record last season for the worst ever in team history. they might just be setting new records for bad again this year. BTW 7-9 is something Gailey has yet to achieve, and right now its looking like this season might be a 5-11 disaster with an horrific downturn after starting 5-2. The man already had 2 years and its not looking to good right now, bad drafts, bad free agency, bad teams

I did say ....""Another thought is constantly calling roll outs and as much misdirection as possible, even using the old counter trey. If the traditional offense isn't working then pull out all stops to win the freaking game and not just shotgun passing plays over and over! open up the run playbook and use reverses, fake reverses. toss sweeps .... anything to make a first down to move the chains. If the defense has its ears pinned back and is intent on stopping the QB and screens aren't working, then run it down their throats... one way or the other!"" Granted the reverses and toss sweeps are slow to develop so just fake them and get the defense going one way and take it the other way. I'm just staying anything other the shotgun passing plays that are ineffective.It just seems to me that Fitz in the shotgun and calling pass pass pass has been resulting in 3 downs and punt for the Bills over and over, with the craptastic defense the Bills field its also seems more moronic to go 3 downs and punt and put to the defense back on the field. I watch Gailey use the spread with 3 wide and the TE off the line and as a receiver, then the very next play is a play action with no TE in pass mode. then back in as TE, then 4 Wide and no TE. Jeez, if he is one of the top receivers on the team....then Kellen Winslow Sr him and work him. NFN, but Chandler managed 71 yards on FIVE receptions against the Dolphins...double those receptions and what do you have...possibly 140 yards on 10, now imagine 15 touches! I just don't get why this guy isn't getting the ball more often! The Jets have shown they are susceptible to being run on, the Bronco's did it for 125 yards on the ground! yeah they have Revis island, so why throw it?

Wow. after re-reading my own post from week 5 after the Cincy loss, the Bills first. It reminded me of how lame Chan Gailey is starting to look now after losing to the NY Giants by 3 points, then the Jets-Cowboys and Dolphins by 106 against to 26 points for, all blow outs. Let me say again...wow! The man clearly has no plan B, he can't make adjustments to the offensive scheme when opponents gave figured out how to stop it, or perhaps he is so dense that he simply refuses to try and make adjustments. From 5-2 to now 5-5 and looking like 5-11 While the Wildcat and QB option are plays that could work with Brad Smith. these should be utilized quite a bit ONLY if Fitz is having a tough time. Fitz is a top ten QB when he is on his game and the offensive passing game is working. he proved that in the first 5 games they won. stating that, the best RB/WR the Bills had was Freddy Jackson who is now on IR. So that leaves WR Stevie Johnson and TE Scott Chandler as Fitz's best options in the passing game. If the problem with the offense is opponents bumping the receivers on the line to disrupt the timing of those short quick passes, then instead of the keeping the TE in to block, why not start TE Chandler at other positions and always keep him available to catch passes. Utilize 2 TE's and get Chandler more involved in the passing game. He is big enough to not be jammed by puny DB's and should be able always be open for Fitz to hit. Another thought is constantly calling roll outs and as much misdirection as possible, even using the old counter trey. If the traditional offense isn't working then pull out all stops to win the freaking game and not just shotgun passing plays over and over! open up the run playbook and use reverses, fake reverses. toss sweeps .... anything to make a first down to move the chains. If the defense has its ears pinned back and is intent on stopping the QB and screens aren't working, then run it down their throats... one way or the other! Lastly, now that FJ is on IR, I gotta wonder if Spiller and Smith will finally get more touches

This team continues to ruin QB's again and again, year after year, and I think it will be no different under Gailey! Gailey has had 2 drafts now to improve the O line and he hasn't done it. He is content to try and make a line up piecemeal out of cast offs from other teams aside from Wood & Levitre. Just like all the head coaches before him since Marv and Polian. Every year Bell is injured, not serious enough to land on IR but enough to miss 1/2 the season, wtf good is a player who can't stay healthy? JP Losman had a semblance of a decent O line with Derrick Dockery at G, Jason Peters at LT and Langston Walker at RT. The problem was at Center position, players who were bums and castoffs, the line never solidified and Peters became upset as he was the the only all pro and least highest paid player on the line.So they trade away Peters, cut Walker & Dockery and start all over to try and rebuilding it. The problem with Losman was that he had several QB coaches, several OC's, different head coaches and different systems to learn. Meanwhile brainiac Jauron kept pulling him in and out of games which ruined his confidence. Just a crap way to develop a young QB. Edwards was the result of what happens when the team changes O line coaches and protections fail. Concussed at least 4 times that I'm aware of, and probably thrown back into the game to soon and took another concussion. Very fast release and studied under the WCO, so what do the Bills do force him to try and adapt into a crappy Mike Martz scheme. Lately Martz has had to change his own scheme to help keep Jay Cutler from getting killed as he has been the most sacked QB in the league since he was hired as OC in Chicago!

HORSE FREAKING CRAP.... The line was never good, Ryan Fitzpatrick made the line look way better then it was because he would get the ball out to the open receiver in 3 seconds or under!!! Now that teams have stopped that short passing game and Fitz needs to hit his players a little deeper and he has no time to do so, not just because the line is banged up. But because that line NEVER allowed him much time on a consistent basis. ESPN reported that the Bills O line was second worst in the NFL in allowing pressure on the QB in 3 seconds!!! That stat was taken from week 5, before their great decline. This O line this year was hap hazard from the start! Lets face facts, Dem Bell might be a good guy and an average LT, but WTF good is he if he is ALWAYS INJURED! The RT is below average and is the main reason that Buddy Nix went after Tyson Clybo in free agency! This team needs a steady full time player at LT who can lock down the position, they currently have 2 backups on the team who are average-mediocre at best. They need a RT and perhaps a G-C back up for Wood. Why don't you guys get that building a top O line goes hand in hand with building a winning team? Simply look back at the history of this franchise, when the team has a top line they win...PERIOD!

looks like the team gave up 3 weeks ago...i gotta wonder if Gailey and Nix are now resigned for a particular player in this up coming draft. Should they tank the rest of the season they might have an honest shot at a top player they must have their eyes on Bills 5-5 and 6 games to go 11-5 or more likely 5-11 Miami 3-7 will win more games, still don't think Sparano will be there after this year+ Cleve 4-6 will win more games + Jax 3-7 will win more games, good defense + Indy 0-10 working on Andy Luck, won't win a game per Polian---- KC 4-6 will win more games + SD 4-6 will win more games + Philly 4-6 will win more games+ Washington 3-7 will win more, but not enough- Minn 2-8 will win more but not enough- Tampa Bay 4-6 will win more games + Carolina 2-8 will win more nut not enough- Arizona 3-7 will win more games but not enough- St Louis will win more but not enough- they could get the 6th pick or 14th at the worst...biggest needs OT-OLB I swear, if these two don't get it that you can't win with a substandard O line by now...this regime will never win!

The dude can't find a hole, can't hit it when he eventually does find one, can't block for protections and he fumbles....other then that np all we as Bills fans can do is hope he stops THINKING or trying to think and plays with his instincts like he used to do in college. Is hope he can muster some inner courage and get up some emotion and say to himself they can't stop me! I'm better then all those Jet fags and I'm here to tear them a new one today

My point being Tom Brady has ALWAYS had a top line in front of him, ALWAYS played on teams that have been at or near the top of the AFC East every year....because he has ALWAYS had great coaching. If he gets injured its because he holds the ball way to long on some plays, but then he is used to having 4-8 seconds to get rid of the ball, unlike Fitz who HAS to have the ball gone in under 3 seconds usually. This year is nothing like last year, last season the Bills started out 0-8

Yea Brady was a back up, but still not a perennial back up on 3 different teams like Fitz was. Don't tell me you don't get how so many different OC's and HC" and different systems can ruin a QB. Tom Brady has played in the same system his entire NFL career, and on playoff teams no less. when he took over for Bledsoe that was already a playoff team so he has ALWAYS had top O line protections. Fitz OTOH has played on some really really bad teams with horrid protections so his journey thru the NFL has been much more difficult, almost amazing he has survived this long. Anyway, Gailey has managed to get 5 wins out of a bunch of nobody's and back ups, while that defense loaded with first rounders in the secondary has been stinking all year, save for the takeaways. Gailey does has some huge faults no question, his inability to adjust his offensive scheme once teams have learned how to stop the short passing game. plus the fact he is sticking with a crappy 3-4 when he doesn't have the players for it. Not to mention an offensive minded head coach that doesn't build the O line first thing... this reeks of SSDD & SSDY= SSDDecade

Too bad the Broncos didn't release him next week, because after this week with no FJ running the ball the Bills QB is gonna get crucified, by either the Jets or by the fans. the Bills would have picked him up and the fans could see what would happen to an ordinary QB behind that PoS O line...oh well guess Tyler Thigpin will have to do

CJ Spiller stated that those are " blue whale shoes to fill" Man, lets see if Gailey can really build something out of nothing

I've been doing that since I started posting in this forum! History has shown that when the Buffalo Bills build a great O line they start winning and don't stop until they dismantle the line. OJ Simpson had the "Electric Co"...a great bunch of O line players to block for the first NFL RB to rush for over 2000 yards Chuck Knox drafted a guard #1 that stayed with the Bills 14 years, and played 16 years in the NFL, plus Knox inherited and utilized some of those electric co guys! Bill Polian drafted Will Wolford a #1 left tackle and found center Kent Hull from the USFL, both players along with Jim Richter was with them all those glory years in the late 80's early 90's Bottom line: until the Bills get their proverbial heads outta their backsides and draft some top O tackles who can play a full year and not sit out 1/2 the year with injuries, draft some top O line talent for depth and starters, this team will never win long term and make the playoffs P S fans in this forum were criticizing the SF 49ers for wasting 2 first round picks on O linemen 2 years ago. now look at what those 49ers have accomplished in building a top power running game along with a former washed out top QB.

the team might have the same record but both are going in different directions. The current Jets defense and O lines are infinitely better then the Bills. what screwed the jets last week is they lost both RB's to injuies and were forced to play a 3rd stringer, that won't be the case this week. So the weakest part of that Denver defense in its failure to stop the run simply couldn't be exploited by the Jets. Denver has a pass rush with Von and Elvis, unlike the bills. unless gailey gets his head outta his butt on offense this week it will be another loss

Cmon man, grown some brain cells Aaron Rodgers was a back up alright, behind HoF legend Brett Farve, but he was also a #1 draft pick being groomed to be the eventual starter. Fitz OTOH was a perennial back up QB and a 7 th round draft pick. Stevie Johnson was also a 7th round pick that nobody had even heard of until last season. Both Ryan Fitzpatrick and Fred Jackson have never entered a season as "the" starter until this year! But I'm fairly certain you knew the difference, you just wanted to start some crap. The funny part is Gailey has managed to get better production out of an offense this year without all the #1 picks that the Bills have wasted on the defense

I literally lol'd The Bills hired 3 new trainers to help with all the injuries that Jauron used to have year after year? Something isn't working or the Bills just seem to be plagued with some horrendous bad luck. But then consider that the Packers won the SB last year with 6 starters on IR and another bunch out with injuries. The Patriots went to the SB with a ton of injuries also. even the Bills during the Jim Kelly days were so plagued by injuries by the time they got to the SB they had a tough time because so many players were out hurt. I can recall in the AFC Championship game against Denver that the TE Pete M needed to play tackle because all the rest were out injured. The Bills are devoid of talent and depth because for the last decade they really didn't know a good player from a bad one. look at all the players they let walk who are now are doing well on other teams It is always nice to know that Leodis Mckelvin will have a nice seat on the bench right next to CJ Spiller usually reserved for Buffalo bills first round draft picks. Those two can take the place of John McCargo and Aaron Maybin

You make some valid points. I blame them both tho, don't forget Spiller was Gaileys pick all the way. He was talking about a "waterbug" long before the draft and must have had his eye on him for awhile. When Chuck Knox and Bill Polian did their drafting they pulled some immediate starters out of the drat right away.These two guys haven't done that yet. While I can't completely fault Buddy Nix for his first years draft or free agency considering Tom Modrak was still in charge of the scouting dept. But Nix had better get this years draft right. Gailey hasn't been a mega mind the last few games, the team gets behind and he starts calling nothing but shotgun passing plays like his predecessors used to do. But then consider what this offensive team consists of...a back up at QB, a back up at RB, unknown receivers. a bunch of cast off rejects on that O line save for 2. a TE no other team wanted to sign. I'd say Gailey did well getting this team 5 wins this year. If they had drafted more for the O line early in the draft the last two years this team wouldn't be going thru the horror shows every Sunday The defense OTOH has no excuse, a #1 pick at DT and 2 drafts mostly dedicated for the defense AND IS STILL one of the worst teams against the run. That top 5 passing defense under Jauron-Fewell has gone into the toilet and is now just as bad as the run defense, which is kinda crazy when you think of all those DB's that Jauron drafted over his time with the team. Defense= coaching & player acquisition failures Offense= bad play calls and game plans when the team gets behind

lets not forget that JP Losman and Trent Edwards looked good for a short period of time...I can recall in 08, that after 5 games this board was flush from posters gushing about how Edwards looked like another Joe M. I can recall at the start of the 07 season that the entire NFL had the Bills on the verge of being a top team because of JP playing so well at the end of 06, the season before. For some inexplicable reason this franchise almost always manages to torpedo its own good players. For almost 2 decades what this franchise has failed to realize is that if you want a top team you build it from where the games are won and lost in... the trenches! Buffalo hasn't had a top QB since Jim Kelly because they haven't been ale to protect anyone since Kelly, not for long anyway. I like Fitz, I think he is a gamer and a gunslinger but he can't do it by himself, no QB can. He still needs a line, better receivers, and an OC that will build a power running game to compliment the passing game. I realize Fred Jackson has played great this season, but for whatever reason gailey has turned into a moron lately. When down by 21 points, instead of running his same power spread offense he starts calling nothing but shotgun passing plays...much the same way the moron Schonert used to do. So my take is eventually Fitz will keep getting hammered behind that PoS O line and ultimately be ruined by another fool of a HC, just like Jauron with his QB's, Just like Mularkey did with his QB's, just like all the rest since Levy-Polian

considering how the injuries just keep stacking up on this team... they could just defy the stats and just keep getting blown out. Plus the fact that Gailey seems intent on not even trying to build a strong ground game when his QB is struggling.

I dunno what gailey has been thinking the last 3 games, but even when they were down against the Raiders and Patriots I remember Gailey still ran Jackson and when Fred scored and it "sparked" the entire team on to a win. Against the Cowboys the running game became an afterthought even tho Jackson was able to get 8.7 yards per carry on average....it just made no sense! Its like Gailey has this Turk Schonert throw throw throw out of the shotgun mindset that was so lame. Schonert kept forcing the QB to try and make plays even when it clearly wasn't working. Remember Turk had both Jackson and Lynch and they both had 100 yards rushing against the Dolphins one year, but he stopped running the ball for some reason. The thing is, if Freddy isn't 100% and can't carry a full load. Then who do they have that can even come close to doing what Jackson can do? Anyway, I agree with the OP that the best part of the offense has been the running of Fred Jackson and the Bills should utilize him more, even when down by a big margin. The Bills need to utilize all their backs, Jackson, Spiller, and Brad Smith and keep working that ground game!

So instead of 3-4 WR sets, why doesn't megamind-less utilize 2 WR sets & 2 TE's. Keep a TE in to block and let Chandler just run routes. Hell, for that matter I'd start Chandler at a WR position instead of TE, that guy shouldn't have any problem with the puny DB's jamming him at the line. Fitz would always have a viable open target within 2-3 seconds. Another idea when they get so far behind is to keep the FB in for protections and let Fred Jackson play WR, slot, outside, wherever. Jackson is as good or better then any of the WR's at catching the ball. Why keep your best play maker on the team in to block, let the guy who is paid to block do the blocking! Bench the WR's who can't catch and let Freddy and Chandler run with Stevie. That's 3 viable WR's, they can't double all of them. If that plan is working then perhaps put Brad Smith in the backfield next to Fitz, let him get the snap and run the option or just let him run as a RB. So many different options then just keep trying to throw throw throw when Fitz is having a tough time. Speaking of that I still wonder if Fitz is injured and doesn't want to get pulled and perhaps lose his job to Thigpin. What he doesn't realize is... Tyler would be basically useless behind that banged up O line. In regards to the defense, yea move Edwards down and the stache up before the season is completely gone! ... just my 2 cents

Ill grant you that Merriman was supposed to bring his "lights out" with him when he came to Buffalo, but didn't, not really. After 5 games the Bills only had 2 sacks against the Chiefs( Scott & Johnson) , 0 sacks against the Raiders, 0 against the Patriots but 4 INT's,2 sacks against the Bengals ( Darius & Merriman) 1 sack against the Eagles (Merriman) 5 sacks total in those first 5 games. Did the Loss of Merriman have that much impact....that even with Chris Kelsay back last week they can't get any pressure at all? I dunno, kinda doubtful IMO considering the Bills had 10 sacks against the Redskins without Merriman. I don't get it, did the defense start playing more conservatively, did they stop blitzing completely and try and play it safe? Injuries shouldn't be an excuse, even the backups are still highly skilled professionals. The packers lost like 10 starters,and another 6 players to injuries last season and still won the SB Anyway it still doesn't explain what happened to the offense 30+ points a game and 400+ yards to 200 yards and to 11-7-8 points in each of the last 3 games. WTH happened to this team, did they lose their heart? ... are they just playing for their paychecks now? I just don't get it!

Bills pound the Chiefs AT Arrowhead, 41-7 Bills beat the Raiders @ Buffalo, 38-35 Bills beat the Patriots @ Buffalo, 34-31 Intercepting Brady 4 times Bills lose AT Cincy 23-20, 3 point loss Bills beat the Eagles @ Buffalo, 31-24 Bills lose AT NY Giants, 27-24 3 point loss Bye week Bills beat the Redskins at Rodgers center, 23-0 Up to this point the Bills only allowed 3 losses by 3 points, were getting turnovers, were scoring points. suddenly the wheels fell off against the Jets. They managed to hold off the Bills offense for 3 QTRS and then the Jets got them down on the ground and rubbed their nose in dog poop. This team hasn't been the same since that Jets game. Did the Jets completely demoralize this team into thinking they are a bunch of losers? Jets 27-11 Cowboys 44-7 Dolphins 35-8....wow beaten down by the 2-7 phins with a back up QB no less...the shame! The 5-5 Jets-6-4 Cowboys, and 3-7 Dolphins are just not that good. The Bills defense even made Matt Moore look like an all pro, and he isn't! The Bills have the best RB in this division in Fred Jackson...no question! When he is on his game Fitz is the second best QB behind Tom Brady, and in that game in week 3 Fitz played better then Brady. The Bills have found their TE in Chandler, they have a top receiver in Stevie Johnson. The key players on offense are all still playing, save Eric Wood which was a huge loss, but the Bills played poorly with him against the Jets and Cowboys. It was just wrong to put Levitre at center, it was even more wrong to cut Hangartner! So is Fitz injured? hand, shoulder, elbow, arm? he just doesn't look like the same guy that put up 30+ points and over 400 yards of offense in the first 5 games. Was he concussed at some point and didn't say anything to anyone? Like Jay Cutler continuing to play with a broken thumb? Kyle Williams was playing on an injured foot that didn't heal and ultimately went on IR, but before he did everyone was saying wth is wrong with Williams! What is the answer on the defense? Does Chan Gailey need to demote Edwards and promote the Wannstache NOW? Clearly something is wrong in the secondary, and with the secondary coach? That same coach who was here under Jauron and had the pass defense in the top 5 in the league. I'm not sure what the answer is at this point, but if I'm Chan Gailey I'd be breaking my foot off in some players & coaches keesters! Perhaps even cut a malcontent who isn't giving it their best, just like the Patriots did with fat Albert! If Brad Smith is regretting his signing with the Buffalo Bills, then make him run that wildcat till his legs fall off, make him earn every penny! Anyway, so what happened to that spark that ignited the defense to get all those takeaways? The spark that ignited the offense to score 30+ points and over 400 yards of offense?

First) Levitre was playing a position he had never played before, so if he stunk it up.... then blame the coaches for putting in the wrong position. He held his own at G & LT Second) When Buddy Nix took over as GM one of the first statements out of his mouth were " we are not that far away" So he believed at that time the Bills already had a decent roster that inept Jauron managed to get 7-9 out of, a brilliant offensive mind like Chan Gailey would surly do better. What Gailey and Nix both failed to realize was that Jauron torpedoed his own team, and that O line, first by trading away Jason Peters, and then by cutting Dockery and Walker his last year. Losing both guards Dockery and Walker were probably the main reason that 2009 team went 6-10 instead of 7-9. He drafted Wood and Levitre that year, but there is a learning curve to every position. He should have kept Walker, and moved Wood to center right away, and with Levitre at guard that line could have improved right away. Third) I don't care what anyone says... the Bills desperately need help on that line with at least one new TOP tackle and depth at center, it was a huge mistake to cut Geoff Hangartner Fourth) The biggest reason why this team stinks so badly is the horrid defense being run by an inept DC! Plus the fact that they tried unsuccessfully to make the transition from a 4-3 to a 3-4, to run a great 3-4 you need top LB's, what top LB's have the Bills acquired in the draft the last 2 years to run that 3-4? NONE! Merriman was a huge gamble that worked like a broken slot machine. Fifth) opposing teams have figured out how to shut down Fitz by jamming his receivers at the LoS to disrupt their timing on those short quick passes. That O line just can't give Fitz more then 3 seconds on most plays. Chan Gailey knows this, he has seen it first hand and yet has failed to make adjustments to the offense to correct the situation. Instead of running the ball more, he just keeps forcing the QB to throw throw throw, much the same way that idiot Turk Schonert did with Trent Edwards. Sixth) So when the passing game isn't working Chan Gailey has no plan B....coaching failure! the defense is a sieve...can't stop the run, and now can't stop the pass either!! At least Jauron managed to get his pass defense into the top 5 with all those DB's he drafted. this is the exact same DB coach that was here under Jauron, and yet the Bills are as bad in pass defense now as they are against the run!! ....coaching failures The Bills traded away Marshawn Lynch who could have helped the Bills build a power running attack when the passing game isn't working. The Bills traded away Lee Evans who could have helped keep the opposing defense from stacking on the LoS. The Bills dumped Donte Whitner-Poz- Jaberi Greer-Jim Leonhard-and yet all those defenses are doing so much better with Bills cast offs So what is the real problem... still can't evaluate talent properly....still can't coach. Gailey needs an OC & DC who know wth they are doing and are good at their jobs.....jeez, hire some people away from Green Bay who can evaluate talent properly.

Look back to that first drive where the Bills got a FG, 3rd down and 2 and Gailey calls a pass play... when the first 8 yards from the Dolphins 20 came from Fred on 2 plays. I don't get why the Bills are passing on 3rd and 2 I don't get why the Bills gave up on the running game this week and last week. Clearly Jackson was injured in the 2nd half this week. But last week against Dallas he had a 114 yards on 13 carries a 8.7 YPC avg and they don't run it more? The freaking man gets the nickname megamind and the last three weeks he has turned into megabuffoon. If something isn't working he doesn't have a plan B? How is it Fitz fault if other teams have figured out how to stop Gaileys offense, isn't it up to the HC to think up something new to defeat what changes the defenses have made? While I agree that Fitz has played badly these last few weeks, lots of errant throws.But then the entire team.has played badly right along with him. Ya know, this is kind of why I have always advocated building a big powerful O line with top talent and building a power running attack to go along with it. Screw this finesse offensive shi...err, stuff!