thewildrabbit

More importantly If Stevie Johnson goes down the Bills are screwed. #61 for a #2 WR stinks in my view. My entire point was to show that there really is nobody after SJ worth a damn, even tho Gailey keeps calling all those 5 WR sets. Think about those 5 WR sets with SJ at #19, Nelson at #61 and Roosevelt at #167 is the 3rd WR, Derek Hagan at #171, Brad Smith at #177. Just to give some perspective to those numbers David Nelson had 61 reception for 658 yards. Brad Smith had 23 receptions for 240 yards. The Bills were rumored to be interested in Vincent Jackson this past off season and for good reason as he was ranked #17 last year, and probably worth around the 10 mill to the 11.5 he got from TB in free agency. Like I stated in other posts Gailey doesn't fool opposing defenses utilizing those 5 WR sets, they know who is getting the ball. The Bills desperately need another top 10-20 WR to take some heat off SJ. Kinda why I was posting about obtaining Mike Wallace should the Steelers want to trade him during preseason at some point. A #1 pick for 2013 plus 11.5 a year for THE premier deep speed WR ranked #11 last season is well worth it in my view, just not sure the Bills could afford him.

WR is a huge concern on this team IMO, considering Gailey wants Fitz to throw 500-600 times this season, and call shotgun 4-5 WR one back spread sets all game long. Finding a top second and third WR should be a huge goal. Johnson was ranked #19 last year, the next best was Nelson at #61. The next best receiver was Fred Jackson at #106, followed by Scott Chandler at 120, then Spiller at #159. Finally Naaman Roosevelt at #167 makes the 3 best WR on the team last year. FJ only played in 10 games, so what does that tell you about the Bills WR corps? Don't think this is significant? Lets look at the Patriots, Wes Welker #2, Rob Gronkowski #6, Aaron Hernandez #31, Dion Branch #57. So when the Patriots throw 612 times a season they have 4 receivers in the top 60, 2 in the top ten. The NYG also have 2 in the top 15, Victor Cruz #3, Hakeem Nicks #12

Au contraire, Fitz to Stevie Johnson has been about the ONLY bright spot for the Bills the last two years! But both Fitz and Stevie have some flaws, one drops more passes then he should, and the other is inaccurate at times when he is under heavy duress. Those two are the very least of concerns this team has on offense! Finding a top second and third WR come to mind first. Johnson was ranked #19 last year, the next best was Nelson at #61. The next best receiver was Fred Jackson at #106, followed by Scott Chandler at 120, then Spiller at #159. Finally Naaman Roosevelt at #167 makes the 3 best WR on the team last year. FJ only played in 10 games, so what does that tell you about the Bills WR corps? Yet that didn't stop Chan Gailey from calling all sorts of shotgun 4-5 WR one back sets all season long. In 2010 Fitz was the dominate reason that the Bills even won 4 games. along with 2 losses in OT to playoff teams at Baltimore and at home against Pittsburgh. The one against Pitt would have been a win if Johnson hadn't dropped a perfectly thrown 50 yard TD bomb in the end zone. In 2011 the Bills had a pretty decent team to start the year and it showed after 6 games. Then the injuries hit and the Bills became a bad team again with no adequate backups at several key positions. The Bills still have some serious flaws on offense before they can become a good team on offense. The QB position and Ryan Fitzpatrick are not one of them First, a good 2nd, 3rd, WR must be found amongst a slew of supposed good young WR's all the fans here keep gushing about. Second, I'm not convinced that right side of the O line can protect more then the 2-3 seconds needed to build an actual offense, and not just one with a short quick game that was figured out early last season. In other words the Bills need to build a better mid to deep passing game with 5-7 step drop back passes. Perhaps if Glenn or Hairston get moved to RT it might get better. Third, Scott Chandler was able to catch more balls thrown to him then any other receiver on the team last year. The Bills need to make Chandler a primary receiver more often, and not just in the end zone. Fourth, the Bills need to build a strong running game and keep it going all game long, and not try to rely on a "one trick pony" short passing game to win games. Vince Young is still the #3 QB on the roster for a reason, he doesn't have a skill set even close to what Fitz has to run that quick short passing scheme. Much less get protections set and understand a proper presnap read. There was a reason why Andy Reid dumped the guy off the Eagles roster and picked up Trent Edwards. The only viable option I see for VY is to be the WC QB. That offense he should be able to run.

I view this year more of a year to show us if Chan Gailey can get it done or not. This will be his 3rd year as HC. That right side of the O line is still very questionable if the Bills want to open up the deep passing game with TJ Graham. Only one WR is a stand out so far, last season Johnson at #19 and the next best at #61 (Nelson). While all the fans are gushing about how good all the young WR's look at training camp it all comes down to production on the field once the season starts. Tight end, Scott Chandler caught more balls thrown at him then any other player on the team last year. Chandler needs to be the primary target more often and not just in the red zone. RB, even when the Bills were doing a great job of running the ball in some games Gailey would abandon it for constant shotgun pass plays. At some point in the 2nd half of the season this really got old and ineffective, and yet Gailey couldn't stop calling pass plays all game long. LT, right now the race between Hairstson and Glenn is close and both are sharing snaps at that position. But will the coaches know the difference between the better player once the season starts? They failed to do that in several positions over the last two years. Although the Bills started out the season very strongly in 2011, looking like a playoff contender. The team fell on its face and became a bad team again. So many key injuries to overcome along with bad backup players. There shouldn't be that big a drop off at so many positions, the 2nd stringers should at the very least know how to do their respective job at an NFL level. Fitz has proven he is head and shoulders above the 6 other QB's the Bills have had on the team the last 2 years, he is not the issue. I firmly believe this must be it for Chan Gailey! He needs to prove he can field a competitive winning team in the AFC East

Read the fans response at that time that I posted in my edit: "Don't see a big difference? I'm a FAN and I can see a BIG difference. That comment alone makes me wonder WTF is going on at 1 Bills Drive. Trentative Checkwards is too scared to throw anything over 15 yards. Fitzy will throw bombs all day long, though his knock is he's not too accurate. Though I do agree with the change they made. Fitzy gives us a better chance to at least compete in games. Edwards under center just means a blow out. Brohm is the enigma, wrapped in a mystery. I wouldn't be suprised if we see him by the end of the season though." Gailey is a supposed QB guru and with all his experience as OC and HC how does he make a choice of a broken QB over Fitz? Even DC Perry Fewell was smart enough to see that Fitz was the better choice in 09 when he benched Edwards for Fitz. This QB issue was a critical mistake in my view and part of the reason for a 4-12 painful season, and should not be passed over lightly. Perhaps it doesn't make him stupid in your view, it sure does in my view. Considering Edwards got most of the reps in training camp and preseason only to be cut after 2 regular season games. The entire off season was wasted on a broken QB. (edit) I'm still pulling for Gailey to field a winning team and hold out hope that he is able to beat the other teams in the AFC East on a consistent basis.

Baloney, Chan Gailey reported to the media that it was a very close race between Fitz, Brohm and Edwards. ""Gailey says he has never seen a big difference between Edwards and Fitzpatrick (and for that matter Brian Brohm) and therefore doesn't see it as a big deal to make a switch."" “Back when we started this whole quarterback thing, we had to have a pecking order going in to training camp,” Gailey said. “But the margin of difference between all of them was not that big and nobody did anything to change that margin in training camp. All of them did a pretty good job when they played. If it would have been a huge difference in the two, it might have made a difference, but in my mind and in our mind there wasn’t.” http://profootballta...much-different/ "Levi Brown was better" Where do you guys get this stuff, make it up as you go? Brown was never even in the starting QB equation, and was cut before the season even started. (edit) a fans response to that post by profootballtalk, Don’t see a big difference? I’m a FAN and I can see a BIG difference. That comment alone makes me wonder WTF is going on at 1 Bills Drive. Trentative Checkwards is too scared to throw anything over 15 yards. Fitzy will throw bombs all day long, though his knock is he’s not too accurate. Though I do agree with the change they made. Fitzy gives us a better chance to at least compete in games. Edwards under center just means a blow out. Brohm is the enigma, wrapped in a mystery. I wouldn’t be suprised if we see him by the end of the season though.

When somebody tells you to "get a grip" it literally refers to get a grip on reality, just FYI This entire theory of Gailey starting Edwards over Fitz because of Fitz being a "a lesser-pedigreed player" is complete hogwash and just another attempt at making up an excuse at a huge blunder by megamoron.

Get a grip willya... The preseason is where you watch the players and determine if they are capable of doing the required job at their respective position. Chan Gailey had 4 preseason games to watch Edwards, Fitz, Brohm and he started Edwards. He chose Edwards because he obviously thought Edwards was the better QB. At the NFL level you don't try the guy you think is the second or third player to give them a shot. You start the guy who you think can play the best and win games for you. http://forums.twobil...es/page__st__40 How moronic! Yea, tell that to Andy Reid. How dare he keep Trent Edwards on the roster and dump Vince Young

Whats with you PTR? You call the guy megamind like he has accomplished something brilliant, and yet he has done nothing that Perry Fewell had already done the year previous in naming Fitz the starter over Edwards after he took over from Jauron. Don't forget that megamind CHOSE Edwards over Fitz in the preseason and started him in the regular season 2010 OVER Fitz !!! The mere fact that Chan Gailey stated in the 2010 preseason that Brian Brohm, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick were all about equal, and then started Edwards in 2010 showed me that Chan Gailey is anything but a megamind Megamind has won fewer games then the known moron Jauron, and he managed to do it with 2 broken QB's in Losman and Edwards. Megamind was also responsible for the switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and hiring a complete buffoon in George Edwards to run his defense. Then, even after his 1st year defense managed to become the worst defense in the 50 year history of the franchise he still kept him as his DC the next year. I'd still like to know why Tyler Thigpen can't get this offense yet, considering that Gailey spent an entire year with him back in 08 at KC. This tells me that Gailey can't teach what Fitz knows as he failed in 6 other QB's so far. To the last bolded part. Look what happened to the 49ers last season with a new HC and staff during a year with no off season workouts, no mini camps, a very short period of time to install a new offensive game plan. They simplified the offense for a QB that had a history of failure and yet the team went 12-4. Sometimes its smarter to simplify things and make it easier for the players to learn a limited number of plays so they can execute them perfectly. Bill Parcells stated that after his OC would install the game plan he would throw away all but about 25 plays that his QB felt comfortable with. So simplifying the game plan for the back up or rookie QB is not unheard of and happens all the time. Should you continue on this path of being Iridium minded on this subject I shall be forced to invoke SJBF's rule #2.

If Gailey were truly a megamind, then why hasn't Tyler Thigpen picked up on Gaileys quick strike offense yet? Why didn't Trent Edwards? why didn't Levi Brown? why didn't Brian Brohm? Can Brad Smith run it? My take is Chan Gailey is taking credit for Fitz's ability to read the defense, and set protections, find the open WR in 1.5 to 3 seconds and deliver the ball. Because how is it that he can't get 6 other QB's to do what Fitz does and one of those 6 he worked with as his primary QB for an entire season. The obvious solution is to simplify the offense for the back ups until they learn how to run it, and if they never learn...well, that is what the draft is for.

I think when you look closely at the circumstances of last years season you have to acknowledge that Fitz is not only a tough as nails gamer, but someone you would want to go to war with. We all saw what happened last year. The starting center goes on IR, the starting RB goes on IR. The HC kept calling shotgun pass plays all game long with a bad O line, one decent WR, and almost always playing from behind in games. Cracked ribs can be a particularly painful injury that makes it difficult to even breath, much less throw a football around all game long week after week. We never saw Fitz give up in any game, in any situation. Most fans don't realize it but the majority of NFL players play with injuries thru out the season, some serious and some not so serious. Fitz should have been benched and allowed to recover from that injury. But then so should Stevie Johnson with his groin injury. If anyone should take the blame for the teams lack of wins and bad play its the head coach for allowing his players to play with serious injuries, not trusting enough in his back up players.

10 year customer and called up and told them I was dropping DTV for cable because of the Viacom issue and free Sunday ticket to new subscribers... this year its free baby free Plus, Showtime-HBO-Starz all free for a year. Gotta love Direct TV

Did you actually read my post before posting a smart ass comment? clearly you missed it the first time...Young still is a better viable option at back up or WC QB with a strong running game, and running to set up the pass. With what the author stated in utilizing more play action and bootlegs. In other words, why would the coaches try and make a round peg fit into a square hole. Andy Reid didn't get it done in Philly with Vince Young trying to learn the WCO. However the difference is... that the Bills brought in Brad Smith last season 4 year 15 million to run the wildcat offense. Young is certainly the better option for running the WC. BTW Brad Smith is listed as the 4th or "other" after Thigpen and Young. Like I stated in that first post, what happened to Tyler Thigpen? Isn't he the very same guy that Gailey coached back in 08 at KC?

Megamind...yea right! That is why its so essential for the great running QB to fit the 5 WR spread, quick throw offensive system rather then set him up to be the Wild Cat QB. Chan Gailey proved to me last season with his constant calling for 4-5 WR spread, shotgun passing plays with an injured QB, one decent WR that he is no better then Turk Schonert or Alex Van Pelt. Because that is the exact same crap they both used to call all game long with JP Losman & Trent Edwards. Hey, you know what. Those two boneheads no longer in a coordinators job did better with 2 scrub broken QB's then megamind has done with Fitz, who everyone acknowledges is far and away a better QB then those 2. Why is it that Tyler Thigpen can't run Gaileys offense now? Wasn't he the same guy that Gailey coached so well in KC back in 2008 as their OC? I'll tell you why, because its Fitz's ability to read and react so quickly its scary. Fitz gets the ball out to the open WR between 1.5 - 3 seconds and that is something you can't teach. Both Losman and Edwards couldn't do it, at least not to the WR's. The Bills tried to do that with Mike Mularkey as HC and Drew Bledsoe as QB and it failed. If Gailey were an actual megamind he would simplify the offense for Vince Young because of his limited abilities (wonderlic of 6 score on his first take, 14 on his retake ) average score for the QB position is 24. I highly doubt Vince Young will ever be mistaken for Ryan Fitzpatrick at QB in Gaileys quick strike spread offense. Just like Young didn't pick up the WCO while in Philly. Young still is a better viable option at back up or WC QB with a strong running game, and running to set up the pass. With what the author stated in utilizing more play action and bootlegs. "When you get a guy that's really great at something - and he's a great runner - it makes him exceptional and it makes him more difficult to defend, and it gives you a chance for more big plays," Lee said. "That's what we saw Sunday night. We're not discouraging that. It's something you can't coach." http://www.buffalone...ticle977585.ece I think the Bills have got a better back up In Vince Young then most realize, now if they just utilize him properly....

Look at their history the past decade as they don't pay their receivers top money and prefer to let them walk. Plaxico Burress, Antwaan Randle El, Santonio Holmes. "Mike is a great player and we'd love for him to be a Steeler for a long time," Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert told CBS Sports.com. "There are always ways to create room if you decide to do it." http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth Steelers GM Kevin Colbert told ESPN's Ed Werder that unsigned restricted free agent Mike Wallace is "not available for trade." Several Pittsburgh beat reporters suggested Wallace could be available for trade following Antonio Brown's extension. The Steelers are conducting business as if Wallace won't be on the team. Tweeted the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Gerry Dulac on Saturday, "It's probably safe to assume now that Mike Wallace no longer has Mike Tomlin's support." In an ideal world for the Steelers' organization, Wallace would cave, sign his tender, and agree to play this season "motivated" in a contract year. If that doesn't happen at some point in the preseason, Colbert may change his tune and begin fielding trade offers. http://www.rotoworld...lable-for-trade The kid is THE premier deep speed WR in the NFL. I just don't see how Chan Gailey isn't going nuts trying to get this kid into a Bills uni, unless the Bills can't afford the 11.5

Yea, Wallace wants Vincent Jackson type money, and he should get it as he out performed Jackson. 11.5 isn't that much considering how much Jackson is getting vs the performance difference between those two players Last years top receivers #1)Calvin Johnson new deal 18.85 mill, 132 mill over 7 years #2)Wes Welker, franchise tag #3)Victor Cruz #4)Larry Fitzgerald 15 mill #5)Steve Smith 10.9 mill #6) Rob Gronkowski #7)Jimmy Graham #8) Roddy White #9Jordy Nelson #10) Brandon Marshall 10 mill #11) Mike Wallace 12 13 14 15 #16) Vincent Jackson 11.5 mill per 17 18 #19) Stevie Johnson, played hurt The next Bills receiver on the list #61) David Nelson 16 games The next best receiver on the list #106) Fred Jackson, only played in 10 games #120) Scott Chandler, only played in 14 games While all you guys are gushing about how great the Bills WR's look in training camp, I'm not convinced any of them besides Stevie Johnson are worth a damn. David Nelson was the Bills 2nd best receiver last season ranked at 61st The Bills went into this off season with WR as a priority in free agency and the draft. They whiffed in free agency trying for Robert Meachem ranked #66, tho I don't know why they even wanted him. It was rumored their real interest was in 6'5'' WR Vincent Jackson who got 11.5 from TB. So despite having a glut of maybes on the roster they really only have one proven decent top WR in Johnson. As for the knock on him holding out for more money, I don't blame him. I'm not gonna call him names because he wants a new contract. Who knows what can happen in the NFL, he could end his career with any one hit. Just ask Kevin Everett! If all the Bills want to do is have TJ Graham run deep routes as a diversion so Fitz can hit SJ...then yeah, that might work for a few games. But if they want the very best deep speed threat currently in the NFL Mike Wallace is an excellent wide receiver with game-breaking speed and installs fear in the secondary like no other receiver in terms of speed in the NFL. Signing away Wallace from the Steelers weakens a playoff team in the AFC and strengthens the Buffalo Bills tremendously. Chan Gailey wants to have Fitz throw 500-600 times this year, wouldn't it make sense to sign a top 15 WR to give the Bills a better offense?

Huge difference between Mike Wallace and Lee Evans, kinda difficult to believe you would even compare the two considering how poorly Evans has played the last few years, Evans last best year was in 2008. When teams have only one solid WR they become so much easier to defend as opposing defenses roll coverages to that one player. Just what happened last year after Roscoe Parrish went on IR, defenses knew the Bills had nobody even close to Stevie Johnson's ability and its kinda why all the 5 WR sets that Gailey ran last year didn't work very well. Gailey didn't fool anyone with those 4-5 WR sets because no other WR on the roster put any fear into the opposing defense. Lee Evans garnered enough respect with his deep threat speed that he took some heat off the primary WR. With Evans on the roster in 2010 SJ was #11, without Evans SJ dropped to 19th.Fitz in 2010 441 attempts with 2 less games played vs 569 in 2011, and yet Johnson did better in 2010 with only a few more targets. The reason Johnson did better was Evans as a deep threat was there even if he wasn't used as much. The reason the Bills couldn't incorporate Evans into the offense is the very same reason TO did't fair all that well in Buffalo. The Bills had some incompetent OC's, poor O line play, not to mention the style of offense they tried to run under Jauron. Even when Fitz took over Evans was more of as diversion as Fitz didn't have time to throw 5-7 deep drop back passes. Lets get real here, exactly how many NFL teams have been able to shut down Tom Brady and the Patriots offensive machine the last decade, not many. So counting on the defense to shut down Brady, Welker, Gronk is not gonna happen on a regular basis. Then you mention run the ball ... have you been watching Mr I must throw it on every down despite running the ball well in Chan Gailey! Gailey isn't about to change his stripes and build a dominate run game as the man is noted for his 4-5 WR one back spread sets, and even empty backfield sets with only one decent WR. If Gailey is going to force Fitz to throw play after play it sure does make sense to me to give the guy more then one WR to throw to.

I agree! Most of the posters here just don't get how valuable Wallace (#11) would be to any team with a decent QB! As much as Chan Gailey wants Fitz to throw all game long it certainly makes sense to me to have a valid, sure fire #1 WR on the team. Someone who makes the catch more often, Wallace 72 receptions 113 targets vs Johnson 76 receptions, 135 targets. Opposing teams would go crazy trying to cover both Wallace and Johnson. This would be like when the Bills added James Lofton / Don Beebe to Andre Reed It was rumored the Bills were supposedly interested in signing Vincent Jackson (#16)so I don't see why they wouldn't go after Wallace who is better then VJ, and way better then Meachem (#66) The Bills wanted a top WR in free agency or the draft, and they whiffed in free agency. Took a giant leap of faith in the 3rd round by selected a player every other NFL team had graded as a 5th rounder or later. Now think back to all the other gambles the Bills have made over the years with taking players early that other teams had a later grade on. Donte Whitner, JP Losman, John McCargo. TJ Graham hasn't even proven he can make the team, much less a big play when the bullets start to fly for real. The bills don't know what they have in Graham yet, and it sure wouldn't hurt to have another good WR on the roster if they are going to continue to run those 5 WR sets. ""Beyond Stevie Johnson, the Bills don’t have much firepower at receiver. They now could have even less."" http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/28/bills-hold-breath-after-david-nelson-injures-knee/ To me, trading away next years late round #1 pick for a sure fire top ten WR is a no brainer in my book. If the Bills ever want to compete with the Patriots on a full time basis they need to be able to score right along with them, and not count on Brady turning the ball over 4-5 times each game.

Trading away the Bills #1 pick next year for a true #1 speed WR, #11 overall last season with 72 receptions 1,193 yards 8 TD's and a guy with 4.33 speed would be well worth it in my view. Wallace has proven himself to be a top 10 WR. Holy cow, imagine Gan Gailey with his famous 5 WR, one back spread sets and more then one good WR!!! With the addition of Glenn at LT the O line just might be able to give Fitz the time to throw deep, and if so this WR would be a major upgrade to the offense. Even drafting a WR #1 next year doesn't guarantee that he will ever become a top ten WR that Wallace already is. TJ Graham hasn't proven anything yet in the NFL. Plus Wallace is better then VJ in my opinion and should be paid as much or more then VJ. I'd say a big yes if the Bills can afford him. It would mean playoffs this year. JMHO http://www.rotoworld...-not-fitz-money

Gailey is upholding that Buffalo Bills staunch tradition of no dominate TE on the roster ...meanwhile the Patriots are stacking their roster with anyone they can get to line up at that position. Adding good depth in case of injuries, VS will be the #3 TE. The Patriots already have the best young TE in the game, and the bills have Chandler, Lee Smith, Kevin Brock, Mike Caussin, and Fendi Onobun. exp 6 years, 2 years, one year, 2 years, 2 years Signing VS, a 9 year vet who did pretty good with a decent QB throwing his way in Brett Farve in 09 makes no sense for the Bills because Gailey wouldn't use him. Gailey doesn't use Chandler as much as he should. He would prefer to run 5 WR, one back spread sets with only one good WR.

I can remember watching Reed run a route and he would never look back at the QB, just ran that route and didn't care.The QB saw a hot read where the DB was blitzing, if Reed would have turned and looked he could have had an easy big gain or a TD. I saw this happen over and over with this player. Still can't figure out how he managed to stay employed with the Bills 2002-2009. Perhaps it was because he did so well in college, and was a #2 draft pick. They kept waiting for him to come around and was afraid if they let him go he would do good elsewhere. He also had stone hand for most of his time in Buffalo from what I recall

Good points, and accurate VY is the type of player that needs to be in the same system, and under the same coaches in order to develop properly. Even then, if the coaching is lacking he might never fully develop. However, looking at new Bills QB coach David Lee who probably has a good a chance as any to help him fully develop. I look at the Bills roster with Brad Smith and can't help but think he might be the odd man out as a backup QB, perhaps his new spot is at WR.If the Bills want to run the WC I would think Young would be better then Smith as he is more physically gifted, and taller by 3 inches.I see a spot on the Bills roster over Thigpen and Smith at backup QB. The Bills stated they wanted to draft Cam Newton, here is a player with the same skill set. So let Young be a back up for awhile and see if the coaches are able to get this #1 draft pick to learn the Bills system and get his head on straight. VY seems to have matured since his time with the Titans

That was EXACTLY my original argument, its from my post you first commented on. Its not my fault that you fail to comprehend what others are talking about. Now that you finally fully understand my argument you now decline to name a QB that has become successful all on their own, that's fine. I didn't think you could name any anyway. If you had thoroughly read my posts in this thread you would have found that I praised Andy Reid in an early one, so I have no idea where you get that I dispute Reid as being a good coach. So i need to concede nothing, except that you make up crap in order to condescend on others. You have some serious issues, first is the hostility in some of your other posts towards other Bills fans over nothing!. Then its reading comprehension and deluding yourself into thinking someone said something they didn't. You are still trying to figure out the point I've been trying to get across to you? Not going to waste my time repeating myself over and over because you fail to grasp what others are saying. I suggest you seek some mental health counseling for your hostility issues and perhaps some reading comprehension classes. I honestly feel bad for the people that know you, and have to deal with you in person. I'm done arguing with someone who can't grasp what others are talking about, so feel free to harass a different poster. I get that you hate Trent Edwards, but I'll bet he isn't the only person you hate.

What is it with you and the slamming of other Bills fans, forget to kick your dog or beat your wife today? Take a deep breath and understand were are all here because of a passion for the Buffalo Bills, and not to intimidate or chastise others. I poised the question, Name me one NFL QB who has had bad coaching in his career and became successful despite the bad coaching! " Meaning his entire career, but I thought you were able to grasp that because of your first response. Ryan Fitzpatrick which was an appropriate response because he has played on some bad teams and had some bad coaching his entire career. Steve Young had some of the very best coaching the NFL has ever seen under Bill Walsh. Vinnie Testaverde, the # number one overall pick in 1987, even tho he played 19 years in the NFL with an overall record of 90-123-1. He never went to a SB. However, he did play on some decent Jets teams that had winning records, and managed to make the pro bowl 2x times. Testaverde played an important part in the University of Miami's history as one of the top collegiate football programs of the 1980s and 1990s. Along with Jim Kelly & Bernie Kosar! Vinnie played for the canes from 83-86 under a HC you might have heard of, Jimmy Johnson. Vinnie won the Heisman trophy in 86. He also had a WR named Michael Irvin on that team. Vinnie had Sam Wyche as his HC in Tampa, Bill Belichick as his HC in Cleveland, and NE, Ted Marchibroda as his HC in Baltimore, Bill Parcells as his HC with the Jets and Cowboys, Charlie Weis as his OC with the Jets. Vinnie has had some of the very best coaching modern football has ever seen The entire premise of my point was to say... no successful QB can do it all by themselves. Both JP and Edwards were burdened by morons their entire time in Buffalo. They both never realized their potential simply because of a lack of decent coaching in their careers. JP had some better coaching at first but then was ruined by Jauron and his staff of buffoons. He also had Wyche and Mularkey both telling him what to do, then Mularkey fired his OC along with Wyche. The story on Trent Edwards isn't finished until he is out of the NFL and retired, perhaps Andy Reid can resurrect his career. You know, kinda like what Bill Walsh did for Steve Young. Still waiting to see you point out a QB with bad coaching in his career that became successful all on his own. P.S. the very first response made by you against my post came on page 5 after I stated. "To the last bolded line: No they don't, not all by themselves! The successful ones who adapt usually have some good to great coaching behind them early in their careers. Like I stated earlier in this thread, show me a great QB and I'll show you a great coach behind them. So don't try and state I'm changing the argument altogether. P.P.S. to Hopeful. arguably Matt Hasselbeck and Rich Gannon. Hasselbeck had Mike Holmgren, Rich Gannon had "chucky"

Gotta love the condescending attitude towards fellow Bills fans... You are the are the one who named Ryan Fitzpatrick at first, a guy who has never even had a winning season! Then you name Steve Young! When the question posed was...name me a QB who had bad coaching and went on to succeed. I know his history, its why i stated he was coached up by Bill Walsh. Did you fail to understand this concept... I think so! Hey Mr lacking in reading comprehension, go back and re read my posts. i never stated either one was a good QB. However, I did state that both looked like they were on the verge of becoming good QB and could have been, if not for the lack of quality coaching.You want to only state that both QB's sucked and there was no hope for either from the start. How can we know that when they were coached by morons? Perhaps in your mind my logic fails! but then, I'll bet lots of logic fails there.