thewildrabbit

ESPN's Chris Mortensen confirms Tim Tebow will be a quarterback with the Patriots. http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/263108/tim-tebow-to-play-quarterback-with-patriots

Try and focus, more wins at QB then any QB the Bills have had for 12 years.

Opened a roster spot for JB.....we hope

Yea... and the guy has won more playoff games then any QB the Bills have had the past 12 years. Gotta be better then Brad Smith, TE / RB / RO

The really crazy thing is the Jets won the division at 9-7, Dolphins 9-7, Patriots 9-7 and Bills 8-8. Greg Williams as HC the defense under DC Jerry Gray was the killer being 27 in points allowed and 15 in yards allowed. The Offense was 11th in both points and yards with Kevin Gilbride as the OC. As someone else pointed out they were -12 in takeaways that year which made them 28th in the league. From what I remember about that offense with Bledsoe at QB was the Bills would own the weaker teams and literally dominated them. But the teams with a good pass rush that would manage to rattle Bledsoe and disrupt his rhythm would then have him seeing phantom sackers. Once that happened, and he never found his rhythm again he usually became a liability after that. They lost to the Patriots 2x and the Jets 2x, and beat the Dolphins 2x. Two more wins would have given them the division. They fixed the defense the following year to a degree but were still 31st in takeaways. They also didn't fix the QB problem by building a better O line

I can see Kolb with better down field accuracy on the mid to deep passes. Whether he has time to complete them is another story. Kolb played in a WCO style of offense under Andy Reid, and knows that type of system. That said, he should be the logical starter this season while EJ is given time to develop properly. Unless the Bills plan to utilize some sort of read option with EJ starting. Anyway, Fitz was great at reading the defense, setting protections and getting rid of the ball to the open receiver very quickly. So much so that he negated a lot of the pass rush against him. Kolb OTOH had his a$$ handed to him lasts season in Arizona because of a bad O line. The Bills sorta repaid Arizona last season for that 2008 concussion on Trent Edwards when the Bills were 4-0. The Bills basically knocked Kolb out for the season and then the Cards went on to only win one more game that year after starting the season 4-1 with Kolb as the starter. So Kolb started out last season very well, so who knows what the Bills new coaching staff is planning.

Neither Losman or Edwards mean anything to me personally. I just despise they way inept coaches like Mularkey, Jauron draft a player and then throw him to the wolves without proper protection or development, and then expect them to carry the team to wins. I'll tell you what I remember after week 4 of 2008, when the Buffalo Bills were 4-0. That the majority of the folks posting on this board and on other sites were all, and i mean everyone!! Was gushing about Trent Edwards being so good, possibly the next Joe Montana. Noting that Bill Walsh had given him a glowing endorsement when he was drafted. Fans were even talking playoffs after week 7 when the team was 5-1. The number of posts that were popping up praising both Dick Jauron, and Trent Edwards were just crazy. The FO went a little crazy also because Jauron got an extension on his contract. Edwards kept feeling the effects of that concussion all season with every hit he took I'll wager. Nowadays players are sometimes held out for a year until the team doctors are 100% positive the player has fully recovered. If I'm not mistaken Edwards went on to suffer another 4 concussions during his time in Buffalo. What both Losman and Edwards eventually became was the result of being ruined by inept morons that had no business running an NFL offense. Its ok if fans want to slam just the QB, everybody does it.

It may have been a distraction to you, but In my view Edwards suffered a very severe concussion from that hit in Arizona. The safety coming untouched and slammed him helmet to helmet and into the ground. Edwards probably should have sat out at least a few games to fully recover. The NFL has totally new guidelines now and after you suffer a concussion like that one you become more susceptible more concussions, and the slightest hit can cause another even weeks afterwards Yea, Jauron was a complete tool ...as were his supposed offensive coordinators. Where are they now? Schonert out of the NFL entirely and AVP is a QB coach again somewhere. I blame Jauron and his lame offensive coaches for the failure of both Losman, and Edwards. Both young QB's that simply weren't developed properly. Bad system, bad play calling, bad line, bad coaching. Now, looking new at this coaching staff with Marrone and Hackett, and their history I expect much better development at the QB position.

My take is they were both ruined by Buffalo Bills a$$clown coaches, just not in the same way In 2004 JP Losman was drafted by Mike Mularkey, Sam Wyche was his QB coach his first year (2004-2005) Now Wyche was an ex HC with the Bengals from 84-91 and they made it to a SB 1988. Mularkey went on to fire his OC and called offensive plays in 2005. So JP lost his QB coach and his HC. 2006 Jauron was hired and Steve Fairchild was the new OC, Turk Schonert was the QB coach. At the end of the 2007 season Fairchild quits and Schonert is promoted to OC, AVP becomes the new QB coach. So in his 5 year career with the Bills Losman had 2 different HC's 4 different OC's 4 different QB coaches and endured two different schemes with the Buffalo Bills. Not to mention Dick Jauron yanking him out of the lineup for Kelly Holcomb and later for Edwards, game after game and killing his confidence. The kid played only one full season for the Bills and that was in 2006, going 7-9 and losing the last two games to Jeff Fisher's Titans 29-30 in Buffalo, and the Ravens at Baltimore. That year the Ravens went 13-3. Just to show how lame these OC's were ...2008 in week 15 against the NY Jets the Bills were owning the Jets defense with Lynch pounding the ball. The Bills had just made a 1st down running it and all they needed to do was run the clock out as they had the lead. On this play instead of Schonert calling for another hand off to Lynch, he calls a roll out pass play when they had less the 2 min to go in the game, and the jets with no time outs left. "EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The New York Jets faced the possibility of a stinging loss that would have knocked them out of first place in the AFC East and severely damaged their playoff hopes. A bad play call, a big hit and a lucky bounce changed all that in an instant. Abram Elam sacked Buffalo Bills quarterback J.P. Losman from behind and caused a fumble, and Shaun Ellis picked up the ball and rumbled 11 yards into the end zone with 1:54 left to give the Jets the go-ahead touchdown in a 31-27 victory Sunday. "Buffalo (6-8) was nursing a 27-24 lead and close to wrapping up its first win against an AFC East opponent this season when Losman dropped back to throw and was hit by a blitzing Elam. The ball squirted out and bounced around before Ellis grabbed it, tiptoed down the sideline and splashed into the end zone for a touchdown." "The Jets were surprised the Bills were passing in that situation, expecting Buffalo to try to run out the clock. After all, Marshawn Lynch gained 127 yards on 21 carries and New York was struggling to stop him. Instead, Buffalo coach Dick Jauron overruled offensive coordinator Turk Schonert and called for the throw." This one play created so much hate for JP from Bills fans, and really wasn't his fault as it was the moron calling the play that screwed them Jauron took the blame for that play, yea sure. read the whole story here... http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008121409/2008/REG15/bills@jets#tab=recap&recap=fullstory The sole reason why the Bills drafted Losman was because they were fed up with Drew Bledsoe and his inability get the ball out quickly enough. So, instead of building up that O line to give him more time in the pocket they draft a QB. One with a strong arm like Bledsoe, only one with the supposed ability to roll out and escape the pressure if needed. Ultimately he became another Bledsoe. What is a downright shame is the Buffalo Bills ruined every QB they have put behind center for the last 15 years **because the FO, GM refuse to build a line decent enough to give them proper protection. ** See Bill from NYC post above

I agree with this. I'd like to add that Trent Edwards was trained in a west coast offense while in college at Stanford, and was forced to play in a Mike Martz style of offensive under a pair of OC's that were promoted QB coaches that had no prior NFL coordinator experience. Dickhead Jauron and his band of morons ruined both JP Losman and Trent Edwards in a crap offensive system with bad offensive coordinators, and bad lines. When I think of Trent Edwards all I think of is all the concussions he sustained along with the hammering he took while playing for A$$clowns. Lets hope Marrone installs a power run game to help keep pressure off the QB's

Sorry if I ruined your day. Take it easy, as we have no control over anything that transpires on the field, unless we motivate them by cheering them on during a game. These are grown men making the decisions on this team, GM, HC, CEO / president and their respective jobs are riding on how well this team does over the next 2-3 years. They have 19 million in cap space available afaik and if they were that concerned about the line they would bring in players like G Brandon Moore who is believed to be seeking 3-4 mill per. But he is also 33 years old. Perhaps they are thinking Eric Winston at RT should Pears / Hairston falter or get injured, who knows. Plus, there are still a bunch of free agent linemen out there should the Bills lose confidence in any of their current players on the roster. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/5/2/4287840/nfl-free-agency-offense-tracker-ahmad-bradshaw-eric-winston Me personally, I wouldn't be happy with that O line until it resembled the current 49ers line, talent, ability and play. But that's me! On another note that might interest NewEra. They already have 2014 mock drafts out and SB Nation has the Bills selecting 4. Buffalo Bills: Taylor Lewan, OT, Michigan http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/4/29/4281528/2014-nfl-mock-draft-teddy-bridgewater-jadeveon-clowney-lead-the-way?utm_source=sbnation&utm_medium=nextclicks&utm_campaign=articlebottom

I agree, and he can get away with it a lot because of his size / strength, and ability to elude the pressure. One more reason why statistics on paper aren't always 100% accurate in assessments. Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics. It still doesn't diminish the fact that there was a reason the Steelers let Legursky walk, a guy who graded as their worst linemen. Another interesting note is that he fits in a sort of different mold for a player that Buddy Nix usually brought in, as Buddy wanted behemoths. Cordy Glenn- 6'5" - 345 lbs. Zerbie Sanders- 6'6" - 320 lbs. Keith Williams - 6'5" - 330 lbs. Chris Scott - 6'4" - 319 lbs.David Snow- 6'4" - 304 lbs. Chris Hairston 6'6" - 332 lbs.Sam Young - 6'8" - 322 lbs.Erik Pears - 6'8" - 314 lbs.Colin Brown - 6'7" - 328 lbs.Chad Rinehart - 6'5" - 323 lbs. Kraig Urbik -6'5" - 329 lbs Greg Legursky at 6'1'' 315, seems almost puny.

I don't feel better now. But then I suppose everything is in the hands of the new coaches and will they have the ability to coach up some of the players that are lacking. In the 2012 ranking of the offensive lines by pro football focus the buffalo Bills O line ranked 13th. Which is a pretty decent ranking. Although some of us (me for one) believe that ranking to be masked by the scheme / QB / RB, and it really wasn't nearly as good as it ranked. If you read the last line, even the folks at PFF think that there was some masking. Here is the article, with LG Andy Levite getting the best grade and oft injured Erik Pears getting the worst... "13. Buffalo Bills (4) PB – 5th, RB – 21st, PEN – 26th Stud: Although the star of the unit is Andy Levitre (+17.2), we can’t be the only ones that would like to see him do a little bit more in the run game. Dud: The only player on the line to get a significant negative grade, Erik Pears (-7.3) ended his season on injured reserve watching Chris Hairston make a pretty convincing claim to his starting spot. Summary: The line got more praise than they deserved for the ridiculousness of C.J. Spiller and his ability to make a lot out of very little. They did, however, hold up well in pass protection, providing one less excuse for the play of Ryan Fitzpatrick." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/3/ If you search that website a little you will find this page... https://www.profootb...ations-week-17/ "AFC East Buffalo Bills: Running back C.J. Spiller ended the year with an Elusive Rating of 94.6, which is the highest of any back in the past five years." Which pretty much reinforces their statement about the O line getting more praise then they deserved in the run game. Then, If you search that site a bit more and look at the Pittsburgh Steelers ranking at #25, and read it. One player seems to stand out as the worst in a bad and oft injured O line. Allow me, for the too lazy to look it up. "25. Pittsburgh Steelers (25) PB – 24th, RB – 30th, PEN – 18th Stud: The best player on this line is Maurkice Pouncey (+5.4), though that speaks volumes about this line and less about him. He does his job, but unlike a lot of linemen in this league he doesn’t pop out on tape as someone who makes a massive difference. Dud: It’s nice to have a player who can play a number of positions, but the Steelers faithful must be hoping they don’t see an awful lot more of Doug Legursky (-10.5). Summary: Try as they might, the Steelers can’t field a line that can pass protect and open up lanes. That’s despite a significant recent investment of early-round draft picks. That said, this line was never about 2012, and hopefully a healthy unit next year will justify the hopeful optimism" Now you know why I don't feel better now

Big difference between a quick release and finding the open receiver and getting him the ball. Trent Edwards had a much quicker actual release then Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitz tho, had the ability to find the open receiver and get him the ball much quicker then Edwards, generally in 2.5 to 3 seconds or under. Edwards was always dumping the ball off to the RB's vs Fitz who would try and force the ball into tight windows, kinda why everyone loved Fitz at first. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al1p_xuPKpM Anyway, Trent Edwards, drafted by Dick Jauron, the man who went on to force a WCO trained QB into his lame Mike Martz type of offense in Buffalo... run by QB coaches who had no NFL prior coordinator experience...and yet they went 7-9

Good post, I agree with a lot of what you say. As to the injuries, don't think of the play of the O line in that Miami game in week 10 in 2011 after Wood went down in week 9, as I try not to think of it. Anyway, lets hope this new HC has an answer to the injuries. Gailey thought adding more trainers would help, not sure if it did because Wood still ended up on IR again. Like I stated in another post in this thread, my argument concerning the O line has nothing to do with OTA's, and is based entirely on last seasons performance. Losing the O linemen who graded as the best of the bunch, and then not replacing him with an equal talent should hurt the team. Also, as I've pointed out he was the only player to play in all 16 games the last four years, which helped gave that line much needed continuity. I'm not saying the sky is falling or we are doomed, I was just stating some of my concerns similar to what NewEra posted above. To add to what he posted. If Fitz was one of the better QB's at getting the ball out very quickly to the open receiver and Gailey built his offense predicated on a short / quick passing scheme. Safe to say that most of the throws where based on 3 step drop backs, and that his average release time was around 2.5 seconds. So stating that, the O line basically had to pass block for 3 seconds or less the majority of the time. So now what? We have four new QB's learning a new scheme, two rookies, and we still don't know what that scheme is just yet. Do we really know if this new O line will be able to pass block for Tom Brady like 5 step drop backs, or the dreaded 7 step drop backs for the deeper passing plays. Those passing plays usually take between 3-5 seconds or longer to develop. So, if nothing else it should be very intriguing as to how new HC Doug Marrone will handle the challenges for the 2013 season. More food for thought.... http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/15/sports/la-sp-farmer-nfl-quarterbacks-20110816

RIP Mr Deacon Jones. The rules were so different back then. I can remember that Jones would head slap a linemen so hard his helmet would spin, make him see stars and forget what he was doing. I believe he invented that maneuver, and after awhile they banned it because he was so vicious with it. I believe he also coined the phrase "sack" the QB. Because he said it was putting the QB in a grocery bag and beating on it with a bat. I think pro football weekly reported he had 194 1/2 sacks, and they used to have pages of stats in their weekly magazine back then. In comparing Bruce Smith, Reggie White and Deacon Jones I'd say that all three were great in their own way. Reggie was a beast and could literally one arm swipe players out of his way. Bruce had his spin move. Deacon had his head slap.

Well, this new HC is an ex NFL O linemen, 7 years in the NFL as an assistant coach. 2002-2005 with the NY Jets as the O line coach. OC of the Saints 2006-2008. Plus his years at Syracuse as head coach. You would think he knows enough by now on how to build a proper NFL offense. All we can do is trust he knows what he is doing, even tho as Bills fans we don't share his confidence in the current back up players. His job security will depend on how well that line plays with new QB's Kolb, Jackson and a rookie. We might think its not up to par...but he must or you would think he would ask for better players in the draft / free agency. All we can do now is hope for the best. I also hope he has an answer for all the injuries that plague that line every year.

You love to nitpick in one area of my posts to suit your argument. However your argument about power success failed, and yet you simply can't fathom it. Carolina #1, NO #2 basically means that "power success" is pure baloney.as neither are dominate running teams at the RB position. The QB was the entire reason the Panthers were #! as he had more rushing yards then their best RB, but you pretend to ignore those facts. The Bills failed in their offense because they made a backup QB the focal point of their offense instead of their better players at RB. If you were to actually read what I stated instead of always trying to condemn certain parts you may just get an understanding of what I'm trying to relay. What I stated was the Bills couldn't control the clock or LoS with either the running and passing game. They managed to put up decent stats rushing, passing but couldn't win games. The Bills couldn't make a first down by running on 3rd and short when they needed to, and you even stated .... Time to end this never ending crusade of yours as I really find your attitude very condescending, and at this point I'm done even attempting to reason with you. Welcome to ignore, you're the first!

Hey, another fellow I agree with. Regarding Chad Rinehart, the Bills did the same sorta thing when they cut center/guard Geoff Hangartner before the 2011 season started. He went back to Carolina and started all 16 games for them at RG. The Bills were riddled with line injuries all 2011 and really really could have used him when Eric Wood went down in week 9. All we can do is hope this move doesn't come back to bite them.

I delayed this because I don't have all day to debate you over and over. That stat for power success also includes QB's, in case you missed it, a big reason why Carolina is #1. QB Cam Newton had more rushing yards then their best RB. The Saints are a passing team, and happen to be 25th in rushing last season. Could it be that their opponents expected a pass instead of a run as to why they did so well on 3rd and short? All you prove when you keep throwing out stat after stat is that they don't always tell the entire story. Top rushing teams in the NFL last season #1 Washington, in the playoffs. #2 Minnesota, in the playoffs. #3 Seattle, in the playoffs. #4 San Francisco, in the playoffs. Three of those 4 teams also had running QB's that enhanced their rushing stats The Buffalo Bills were the 6th best rushing team in the NFL last season and yet couldn't control the game or the clock when they needed to by rushing or passing. Which In my view is a big reason why they went 6-10. BTW, They were also ranked 26th in power success. Those teams mentioned, the Texans, Ravens, 49ers, Vikings, Seahawks are all strong running teams, all made the playoffs and all can control the LoS and clock when they need. Despite their supposed lack of "power success"

While I concede that the O line play was somewhat solid, but unspectacular. Still, way to many injuries for me, Eric Wood can't keep ending the season on IR. A hopeless QB situation because the HC made a back up QB the focal point of his offense instead of his best weapons in his RB's. It may be easy for you, but Its not easy for me to see why the OL was far from a top priority, as my main concern is in building a top O line first thing. I know I think differently from the majority of the posters here. I was hoping the Bills would replace Levite in the draft since they let him walk. We will just have to wait until the season starts to see if the line can give the QB the time needed to make those deep throws to the new speedy WR's, and I'm hoping they do. Heck of a lot easier to pass block for 2.4 seconds then it is for 5 seconds on deep drop backs.

I like Kevin Kolb and hope he does well in Buffalo. Kinda doubtful he gets the start tho from my view. I would think the coaches would want EJ out there to start developing.

I disagree...obviously. I think the RB's were the best unit on the team by far, and Spiller was the reason. I guess you missed this, "Summary: The line got more praise than they deserved for the ridiculousness of C.J. Spiller and his ability to make a lot out of very little. They did, however, hold up well in pass protection, providing one less excuse for the play of Ryan Fitzpatrick." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/3/ and this, "Buffalo Bills: Running back C.J. Spiller ended the year with an Elusive Rating of 94.6, which is the highest of any back in the past five years." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/02/32-observations-week-17/ I do agree with the last sentence bolded.

Hey, i agree

Where did I say that? The Ravens just won the SB because QB Joe Flacco pretty much played lights out thru the playoffs, and SB. I was merely pointing out one particular game that stood out to me with one team absolutely dominating the other with the running game. The QB had a horrid game and it didn't matter. The Bills lost one of their top O linemen in LG Andy Levitre and he was the ONLY player not to miss time due to injuries the last 4 years. I don't see how a player like that can "easily be replaced".