thewildrabbit

I look at it this way. I never had great expectations for this season knowing that so many new faces are just learning their jobs at the NFL level. EJ was just coming back from a 4 game layoff due to injuries. Although, he was still listed as probable meaning he wasn't 100% yet. I'm going to cut EJ a mile of slack because I see his OC hanging the kid out to dry. This rookie QB isn't supposed to step in and play great all by himself, it is a team sport. Winning greatly depends on the entire team playing well. I look at yesterday, and say heck yeah EJ had great difficulty! But, he also doesn't have receivers he can trust to run the proper routes. I can recall that one play where Easley clearly ran the wrong route. EJ threw a pass to a spot and the Bills receiver went the wrong way. How can a QB have trust in other players if they don't do their jobs properly. I'm glad that EJ doesn't trust his receivers and throws a bunch of picks. I also see an offense that is almost totally relying on the rookie QB to carry the offense because the run game isn't working. This is just so freaking wrong in so many facets its not funny. Although the Bills O line played somewhat decently in pass protection they couldn't make a hole or move the line of scrimmage to save their lives. Again, Bills OC Nate Hackett called for 39 passes and only 20 rushes. Its like a not very smart Chan Gailey clone emerged as the new Bills OC. The very last thing the ROOKIE QB just coming off an injury should be doing is to be forced to shoulder the entire offense by himself. Hackett needs to find a way to make that run game work each and every week. To take the pressure off the QB. To keep the defense off the field and fresh. To keep the ball out of the the opponents hands. Hacket has 4 good RB's and two are super stars. Spiller 6.0 YPC & FJax at 5.0 under Gailey Those two need to touch the ball 20 times a game each. Then give Choice / Summers some touches in relief and in the red zone. Opponents may stop them for awhile but sooner or later both CJ & FJax will make some big runs and break the game open. EJ should be back there just managing the game, and handing off. More play action, more runs. The QB needs to develop a rhythm and gain confidence, and he can't do that if he has no support from the run game. I mentioned in another thread that Marrone needs to seriously consider a new OC next year. This OC is "George Edwards" to the offense. My take is this entire clusterfluck of a game against the Steelers falls entirely on BIlls OC Nathaniel Hackett. JMO

Kiko is not a pro bowler yet! so go vote for him on NFL.com CJ, FJax, Stevie do not suck! All 3 have been injured all year and Stevie the most often. EJ is not Jim Kelly...yet! NFL football is a team game, and good teams need every aspect of their teams to play well to win games. Simply look at the Atlanta Falcons or NY GIants this year when you think that a top QB is going to change the team from from losing to winning by himself. Stevie left the game with an injury again. Robert Woods is out injured. The Bills leading receiver yesterday was TE Chris Gragg with 4 catches...Who? Oh yea, the 7th rounder out of Arkansas. Seriously guys, did you really think a rookie HC, rookie OC, and several rookie QB's were going to take this team to the playoffs this year? Not even Chuck Knox, Marv Levy did that in their first season. So, what do we know so far? The defense is playing great this year!! When the offense supports them with a decent run game to help keep the defense fresh, and the offense can score at least 20 points. Look what that NO Saints offense did to the Cowboy defense this week, 49-17! This years Bills defense has only allowed two teams more then 30 points. Saints 35 & Browns 37. The offense has many players suffering different injuries, the QB's, RB's and WR's. The Bills offense has great difficulty in many areas against the blitz heavy 3-4 teams. Jets, Saints, Steelers. Plus they play the Jets again this week. Not only do the Bills rookie QB's suffer because they have difficulty in reading those type of defenses, making hot reads, setting protections. The run game also suffers because they run blitz just as often as pass blitz. Don't feel bad rookies ( EJ & Lewis) Cowboy QB Tony Romo went 10-24 128 yards one TD against that Saints D So even good QB's can fail against that defense!

For who, the Jets? Until the Bills OC can figure out how to move the ball against that heavy blitzing 3-4 the Bills are screwed. Eight sacks, thats right 8 sacks on EJ last Jets game (week 3), 42 passing attempts for EJ vs 25 rushes. Its like Gailey was fired and his younger, not as smart clone took over the 2013 Bills offense.

My take is Hacket isn't all that bad, and either is EJ. The one thing Hackett has't figured out though is how to get his offense to play well against those heavy blitzing 3-4 teams, Jets, Saints and now Steelers....with the Jets next week. He has a roster with only raw rookie QB's and they are not accomplished at reading defenses, setting line protections, calling audibles, making hot reads. So Hackett needs to figure out how to beat those teams when they stack the box to stop the run and force the QB to beat them. Then they blitz the heck outta the QB if he is ineffective against the blitz. Now on the bright side. Those defenses befuddle even some of the top QB's in the league so this OC needs to starting thinking of building a power run game to make yards even when the box is stacked against them. Gailey did it by utilizing the spread formation. Hackett seems so concerned with protecting his QB's by keeping a TE- FB in to block when he should be doing 4-5 wides to spread that defense out so they can't stack the box.

There are some similarities in terms of the O line and QB's. Both regimes not really recognizing inferior talent on the roster and making changes in the off/ pre-season. Not to mention that Nathaniel is in way over his head as both OC & QB coach. This is as bad as Gailey in being both HC & OC as both men think they have elite QB's behind center in their play calling. If i'm Russ Brandon I have to start thinking of replacing Marrone & Hackett with Mike Pettine. Then finding an experienced OC who can tutor rookie QB's properly and build a team to support those rookies...rather then make them try carry the team each week. LSU OC Cam Cameron comes to mind.

He is probably gonna go, and he will take Marrone with him if he doesn't change his game planning against those 3-4 blitizing teams. Here we go again folks, different day, same crap!! Hackett calling for 39 passes and only 20 runs. Although, I see why he stopped calling for runs when that O line could't make a hole in a wet paper bag. What does it tell you about an OC who refuses to change the game plan each week. Hackett is like Gailey in thinking he has a top QB out there, instead of a rookie just off an injury.

Yeah, that same thing must be happening to Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Big Ben (only not in this game) this year, The running game can open up the passing game too, its why the 90's Bills were so good. Re-watch the game and notice the Bills couldn't move the LoS on offense. As pathetic as that Steeler O line has been all year they out played the Bills O line in the run game. Notice how that Steelers line moved the better Bills entire front line off the ball. Not only that, I have problems with the play calling against that 3-4 blitzing style of defense that the Bills OC has been able to figure out how to beat. Jets, Saints, Steelers.

pretty much...

In defense of EJ. That Pittsburgh defense is the same type of defense that the Jets, Saints also run. A blitz heavy 3-4 that is purposely fashioned to confuse the QB, and even more so for rookies. As EJ develops he will learn to cope. I dunno what game you were watching. The one I was watching the Bills O line was being dominated at the line of scrimmage in the run game. In order to run the ball effectively they need to move the LoS like the Steelers were doing to the Bills. As injured and troubled as that Pittsburgh O line has been all year they certainly outplayed the Bills O line. Think about the differences in talent on both offense and defense. That Bills D wasn't as good as their opponents today, and should have been the dominate team. Bottom line this is a team sport and that Bills offense simply didn't support the QB enough to win that game. After Stevie Johnson (who left with an injury) who do they have at receiver? Bills TE Chris Gragg was the leading receiver with 4 catches. Bills OC Nate Hackett is making me throw up with his offensive game plans against these 3-4 heavy blitz teams. For a rusty rookie QB that is just back from injury, 39 pass attempts vs 20 rushes

Man o man that is a lot of warts! Contrary to some opinions the sky isn't falling. Rookie HC, rookie playcaller, 3 rookie QB's...expect growing pains.

How ya like me now? Seriously, that Pittsburgh team wasn't as bad as everyone here thought. They did put up 31 against the Patriots at New England last week. It all comes down to being able to run the ball effectively, and the Bills didn't get it done.

Talk about revisionist history!! I was against Gailey from the start and all I got for it was post after post defending the guy. With incredulous stories about how the first year was a wash because this new GM - HC need to evaluate the players. Nix stated "we are not that far away" and 8 losses later the owner does his P&P thing. It turns out that Marrone - Whaley have made some of almost the same stupid mistakes that Gailey - Nix made their first year with both the QB position and O line. Colin Brown = Cornell Green all day, any day! Trent Edwards vs no viable experienced backup QB. Gailey finished 2010 at 4-12, and it is a possibility that Marrone still might do the same(3-6). I gotta wonder if everyone will still love Marrone if he doesn't correct the play calling and Hackett gets all his QB's on IR by week 15.

Not to rain on anyone's parade...but so many loved Chan Gailey at first also. Its all about the W's Ladies and Gents. Don't get me wrong, as I like the guy too. I happen to like Mike Pettine more tho

And just beat the skins...

I think they can, and actually should beat them! I also think the Bills could go on a tear and win all 7 games. BUT! It will depend on whether this offensive coaching staff can change their philosophy of allowing the QB more passes then the RB's run. The "elite" players on the Bills offense are still Spiller & FJax, and those two along with Choice / Summers should be seeing 2x the number of carries vs passes. 50-60 runs a games vs 20-25 passes. Take the ball out of the rookie QB's hands and give it to the star RB's. Woody Hayes / Darrell Royal said, "Three things that can happen on a forward pass, and two of them are bad."

Thank you for articulating my points better then I did. Tuel was known to have limited progressive reads in College. My take is Marrone is taking some big chances with some of his options QB, O line. Perhaps he could have gotten away with decisions like Jeff Tuel as a backup QB or a starter like LG Colin Brown while as the HC at Syracuse. This is the NFL and according to ex Falcon HC Jerry Glanville that stands for Not For Long if you don't win. I like Doug Marrone and really, really want him to succeed in the NFL. I want him to win games, and become a top head coach. Up until this KC game I was repeatedly defending him and Nate Hackett in thread after thread the first 7 games. This game was decidedly different for me because Marrone / Hackett should have been more aware of Tuel's limitations, and should have called the game in a more conservative manner while allowing his QB limited options. Like it or not, that is my opinion. I fear Nathaniel Hackett is going to get Doug Marrone fired this year because of some really stupid play calling if the team fails to win several of the up coming games against lesser opponents.2-6 Steelers, 2-6 Falcons,0-8 Bucs, 0-8 Jags all look like winnable games, and the Bills could actually finish the season with a winning record. Even clueless Jauron managed 7 wins. In summation to the OP. No, don't cut Tuel. leave him as the 3rd string QB and hope he doesn't need to play again this season. Keep the offense simple for EJ & Lewis and depend more on the run game / defense this year.

Did he? The Bills didn't even really try and run the ball after the fumble. Why not just keep doing what was working well with running it at 6.3 YPC? This reminds me so much of the way Chan Gailey would panic when the Bills would get behind in a game. At the 12:47 mark to the end of the game Tuel had 15 attempts passing, and 12 of those were incomplete. The Bills only attempted two runs during that time, one run for 4 yards by Summers, and 6 yards by Jackson. The Bills OC was forcing the rookie QB to shoulder the game at that point. That's the way I see it anyway.

Perhaps you missed the Jets & New Orleans games, and Bills QB's running for their lives. Legursky did make a huge difference at LG, but that line is still very suspect in my view. Believe it or not one of Jeff Tuel's strong points is he has a very quick release. Tuel reminds me of Fitz with his quick release, limited arm, and accuracy issues. Don't get me wrong, I like Scott Chandler. Its just that Chandler is currently 68th in yards. 32 receptions, 54 targets, 367 yards 2 TD's after 9 games is rather pedestrian in my view. It might be that the Bills are keeping him in to block rather then sending him out to catch. Anyway, who are better? Miami Charles Clay, Chicago Martellus Bennett, St Louis Jared Cook, Washington Jordan Reed, Carolina Greg Olsen. Denver Julius Thomas, Atlanta Tony Gonzalaz. Dallas Jason Witten, San Fran Vernon Davis, San Diego Antonio Gates, Cleveland Jordan Cameron, New Orleans Jimmy Graham. New England Rob Gronkowski who was injured is possibly the best TE in the NFL

Blah, blah,blah you are correct. I don't know what QB's were available and stated such. The Bills had a week to make a trade or pick up someone. They chose to stay with Tuel. But the team DID go into the season with Tuel as the ONLY backup on the roster, as Thad Lewis was on the practice squad. Do i really need to link it again? Jeff Tuel currently has a completion percentage of 44.1, and of all the QB's stats listed in the entire NFL only Josh Freeman's are worse at 37.7. Oh yea, remember Freeman? The QB cut by the Buc's that the Bills put in a claim for, only Freeman chose Minnesota. So they were not totally set on Tuel. They took a chance and it didn't work out. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats/playersort/NFL/PYDS/2013/regular?&_1:col_1=9 Leinart sucks also as his completion percentage was 48.5 % in Oakland last year. I agree with letting these kids develop. My complaint was forcing Tuel into 39 passes (41 drop backs), and carrying the team. The Bills running game was dominating the Chiefs defense and yet the OC called for more passes then runs with a very inexperienced QB behind center.

As far as I'm concerned the head coach is responsible for every player on his roster, and every player that takes the field. So if he allows a bad player to take the field and stinks it up, it falls on him. He had the entire preseason to determine if the LG position was adequately manned. Not only was that starting LG the very worst LG in the NFL, his back up was just as bad. So both players were cut loose at week five after the backup center Doug Legursky was able to start at LG, and the GM picked up some players off the waiver wire as backup guards. The one area that should have been properly evaluated because of all the rookie QB's was that O line, and clearly it wasn't. I can discuss what I want, in any thread I want! I'm defending the kid because I don't think its his fault he was thrust into the spotlight so soon, and given the bulk of the workload. This thread is about cutting him

wrong again, perhaps you need the refresher. So, I'll post the link again. http://www.buffaloru...ng-matt-leinart Aug 30th,Leinart released, Brad Smith, Kevin Kolb go on IR, and the first game was Sept 8th. They had a week to bring in another vet, and stayed with Tuel as the primary backup. Tuel almost started that first week, and it would have set an NFL record. Because no un drafted free agent QB has EVER started the season for a team in the entire 93 year history of the NFL. EJ & Tuel were the only two QB's on the roster. Thad Lewis wasn't called up to the team from the PS until after the Cleveland game in which Tuel completed only 40% of his passes. I think that there had to be better options out there then a 40% passer. I don't know the exact list of available candidates for backup QB, or who the Bills could have traded for that would have helped them win games. Needless to say Tuel will be the 3rd string QB this week. I'm not bashing the kid, as I happen to think he simply needed more time to develop before starting him. Lastly, I don't hate Doug Marrone or Nate Hackett, and up until this Chiefs game I defended them both at various times. Man o man, you sure can take something and turn it inside out and outside in while twisting my words. My entire point in that analytic's thread was to state the mistakes this coach staff has made, and only stated they could use some outside assistance in the form of an experienced NFL consultant. RATHER then an analytic's dept. Because Marrone is a rookie HC. Get it right. Would you post a link to my words in any of my posts where I said that Marrone is unfit to coach!Thanks!

This is exactly right A 3rd down run, and if that failed, then kick a FG. The Bills would have been up by at least 10 points. The Chiefs only scored 9 points on offense all game, and those were from 3 FG's. The kid is being crucified and it really wasn't his fault. It was the coaches fault for allowing him to be in that position, and then threw him under the bus because he didn't execute the play.

I think you have it wrong as Legursky was the backup center while at Pittsburgh and started at center in replacing Pouncey in the SB. He was brought in to backup Eric Wood who is usually on IR at the end of the year. His versatility for being able to play both C & G was a big reason he was signed. Colin Brown was the starting LG and David Snow was his backup. Both have since been cut. Sok, keep defending Marrone / Hackett because if they keep doing the same moronic things, and losing games then they will suffer the same fate of Chan Gailey & Dick Jauron. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/8/30/4677544/nfl-roster-cuts-2013-buffalo-bills-release-18-including-matt-leinart What is important to understand is this coaching staff went into this season with Jeff Tuel as the ONLY backup QB on the roster. When he failed so miserably against Cleveland when EJ went down they decided to bring Thad Lewis up from the practice squad to replace him. If either EJ or Lewis had been healthy, both would have started over Tuel. Tuel played reasonably well against the Chiefs considering... but then knowing the Chiefs lead the league in turnovers do you think it was a good idea to put the games in the hands of the passing game with Tuel at QB?

good post as I agree with quite a bit. I would put it in this order of priority. How will anyone ever know if EJ is the man if he isn't properly protected and given time in the pocket to make throws? The O line. If Andy Levitre was adequately replaced other then LG Colin Brown, then the Bills would have done a far better job of protecting EJ, Lewis the first half of the season (26 sacks). These are all young QB's (EJ, Lewis, Tuel) that need the very best protection they can get. That said, LG, RT, and better depth. Right now the Bills depth is right off the waiver wire. Above all a competent TE that can catch and won't fall down when he sees a tackler. A play maker at TE would be such a huge asset to these young QB's. Better OLBers would solve the problem of extra pass rushers and stopping the run. ---------------------------------------- Last but not least. The Play calling. Nathaniel Hackett stated he would run Spiller until he threw up. Well, he should have in the game against the Chiefs, and instead trusted in a kid at QB that shouldn't even be starting. Shades of Chan Gailey lurking around this week. Who made the call on LG Colin Brown? Because whomever that was doesn't know much about who qualifies as a starting NFL O linemen. Marrone / Hackett? Who made the call on not having a decent backup QB on the roster? Because I look at the Bears losing Jay Cutler and the back up QB Josh McCown winning games. I look at the Eagles losing Mike Vick and the backup QB Nick Foles winning games. Hackett is going to get Marrone fired, If he does i certainly hope DC Mike Pettine gets the HCing job

We are not talking about EJ who was the #1 draft pick here. You are talking about a kid who only won 4 out of 26 games in college, and wasn't invited to the NFL scouting combine and wasn't drafted. Shoot, I wouldn't even let Fitz throw on third and one at the goal line. Trusting that this kid can make a play against the #5 defense was flat out stupid in my view. The Bills up by 7 points and an easy chance to go up by 10. The defense had only allowed 3 points, 28 yards rushing, 87 yards passing to the Chiefs in that first half. What was so difficult in trusting the defense to remain solid, which they did by only allowing 3 FG's from the Chiefs offense the entire game. Not in my view. This is exactly what got Chan Gailey fired. Forcing his scrub QB to try and make plays while letting his star players at RB take a back seat.