thewildrabbit

and 3 of those 5 are on the road. Some of those last 5 games no longer look like a cakewalk. Falcons played the Saints very hard fought 17-13 game. @ Tampa Bay, amd the Bucs just beat the Lions at Detroit 24-21 @ Jacksonville, and the Jags just beat the Texans at Houston Miami (5-6) barely lost to Carolina 20-16 @ New England is a playoff team, and has all their weapons now

My reason for starting this thread was about how badly the Bills run game is working lately. They have been held to under 100 yards rushing as a team in four of their last five games. The Sunday had to be the worst of the season, 38 attempts for 68 yards for a 1.8 YPC average. That O line seems to pass block so much better for home games. 1 for 5 on the road . The Bills O line did PASS block very well this last game against the Jets, and EJ played very well 20-28 for 245 and 2 TD's, no turnovers! Cheers In order for a team to win games they need to be more then one dimensional, and can't always count on the rookie QB to play great and win the game. OTOH, the Bills rank #25 in sacks allowed, and against the Steelers, Jets, (1st game), Saints that line didn't pass block all that well. Once LG Colin Brown was replaced the line blocking improved dramatically. The team needs to run to control the LoS when needed and also control the clock when needed. Like last years Bills (#6) this year team ranks very high in rushing yardage (#4) and yet can't control the LoS by running. This was the very same reason as to why Chan Gailey didn't win many games.

The Bills could have a worse owner then Jon, as long as he keeps the team in Buffalo IMO. Better Jon then have the team go to Toronto, the home of a crack smoking mayor.

Statements I agree with, Building a team should start with the line first, because how else will you know if the QB is any good if you cannot protect him adequately.

My take is that the Bills are running a version of the "hurry up / no huddle" offense to keep substitutions limited on the defensive side in order to keep it simple for the Bills QB to read that defense pre snap. As for who calls the protections, yea I would think that center Eric Wood is calling them now for those rookies. Missed assignments... even when they make perfect reads some of these players can't block to save their lives from what I see. Clearly they are better in pass blocking then run blocking, because they have been truly abysmal in run blocking. From WGR in case people don't buy into what PFF states. " Left tackle Cordy Glenn (67, -1, 2.7)mostly held Quinton Coples in check outside of a play in the third quarter that forced EJ Manuel to make an early decision. He struggled a bit in run blocking, but not nearly as much as right tackle Erik Pears (67, -3, 2.0), right guard Kraig Urbik (67, -5, 1.7) and left guard Doug Legursky (67, -7, 1.3). Pears single-handedly caused two of C.J. Spiller's runs to go awry, losing his block on Coples that led to a two-yard loss in the third quarter and then getting beat by Muhammad Wilkerson that stopped Spiller for just a one-yard gain in the fourth." "Urbik's play over the past four weeks has become worrisome to say the least. On three separate occasions, Urbik was cast aside by his assignment and that player made the stop on a running play for a minimal gain. He also struggled on screen plays against the Jets as well. The worst of the bunch was Legursky, who was a liability in run blocking all game long. Whether it was Wilkerson, Harrison, Sheldon Richardson or Kenrick Ellis, Legursky struggled to get a handle on anyone throughout the game." http://www.wgr550.com/Upon-Further-Review-Bills-vs-Jets/17817034 Go ahead, read the entire article. This line wasn't just bad against the Jets, they were even worse against the Steelers the week previous. Bad against the Saints, and horrid against the Jets in that first game. I look at the Bills front line defense, and think they are currently one of the very best in the NFL. Now stating that, this Bills O line has to go up against them in practice each week. They played against them in the off season, pre season. Do they play flag football in practice? Do they not wear pads, and wear tutu's instead? I just don't get how you can not properly evaluate any player going into a season. Gailey and his staff did the exact same thing last year with RT Cornell Green, and we found out Gailey sucked. Because ya know what, I saw them as bad, and stated such. I think quite a few posters in this forum also saw them as bad, and continually stated such over and over in this forum before the season started. I can remember thread after thread of deep concerns from many posters over the loss of Levitre and how they didn't see his replacement as being good enough. There were threads on how bad backup center Legursky was, as he was the worst of the bunch from a very bad Pittsburgh Steeler line. My take in this situation is that both Glenn and Wood are beasts at their positions and (Levitre graded even better) their play falls off when they need to help out the bad players. If the Bills ever want to be a competitive playoff team they need to replace 3 of the 5 on that line, and get some adequate proven depth.

It does make me wonder why this FO / Doug Marrone ever thought LG Colin Brown was going to be an adequate replacement for Andy Levitre, or that Sam Young could be a viable backup. So anyone this team brings in besides a known free agent or a documented draft pick I will remain somewhat skeptical about. Anyway, I just don't get how this team can think that they can get by with sub par players on that line that might even be questionable backups for other teams when they are starting a rookie at QB. I can only hope that the FO changes their past philosophy of thinking they can band-aid that line, and make it work.

To anyone who thinks the current Bills O line doesn't need a few upgrades. This post was made before the Jets game as PFF was doing its review on the game. Just some excerpts from WGR after the game, so its not just PFF. Running back, "C.J. Spiller (27, -2, 1.7), who rushed for only 6 yards on 13 carries. Even though the stat line is one of the worst you'll read for a running back, he was let down a lot by the guys blocking in front of him." "However, there's little he or any other running back can do when the offensive linemen in front of him get beat immediately and the defender initiates the tackle deep in the backfield." Offensive Line To say that the offensive line was poor for the Bills on Sunday against the Jets might be an understatement. Left tackle Cordy Glenn (67, -1, 2.7)mostly held Quinton Coples in check outside of a play in the third quarter that forced EJ Manuel to make an early decision. He struggled a bit in run blocking, but not nearly as much as right tackle Erik Pears (67, -3, 2.0), right guard Kraig Urbik (67, -5, 1.7) and left guard Doug Legursky (67, -7, 1.3). http://www.wgr550.com/Upon-Further-Review-Bills-vs-Jets/17817034 With Spiller getting hit BEFORE he even gets to the line of scrimmage tells me this line needs some serious upgrading to be a competitive playoff team

I almost couldn't believe anyone could be worse then Jauron and his tampax 2, along with selection of Maybin. But, then along came George Edwards for two years of suckatude, and if that wasn't bad enough...Dave Wannstooge managed to set an NFL first in the entire 97 year history of the NFL by allowing a 300 yard passer and 300 yards rushing in the same game. Conservative 49er QB Alex Smith broke a passing record against wannys defense that neither HoF Steve Young or HoF Joe Montana ever did

Tampa Bay is currently 2-8. their first win of the season came two weeks ago against Miami 22-19 where Glennon was 11-21 for 139 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Do the Bills have a WR as good as 6'5'' 230 lb Vincent Jackson? Tampa Bay is 30th in passing offense. The "Muscle Hamster" is out on IR, and so is his backup. But the 3rd string RB just ran for 30 rushes for 169 yards, 2 TD's, & WR Vincent Jackson 10 catches for 165 yards 1 TD against that Falcons defense. I like EJ far more, even when his two primary wideouts are out and injured.

... Build thru the draft. Draft a LBer, TE, LG, RT in whatever order. Stop letting the top talent on the team leave, sign Byrd. Keep Stevie, and let him get healthy. They have the QB and defense, so this team is not that far away... if only they figure out how to run the ball to control the LoS & clock properly.

Granted, but then Gailey didn't even utilize Spiller as much as he could have the last two years, as I can remember games in 2012 in which he only saw the ball Cleveland 4 rushes, NE 8 rushes, 49ers 7 rushes, Houston 6 rushes, NE 9 rushes, and so on. It wasn't until Jackson went out with an injury and then Spiller was finally used full time did he ever see the ball enough to become a terror. Most RB's can't get into a rhythm until the see the ball at least 15-20 times a game. Even then Gailey stated some time in the middle of last season that he realized that both Spiller & Jackson should see the ball 20 touches a game. But they mostly never did. Instead Gailey would have Fitz slinging it all over. Still, Spiller is not an Adrian Peterson type every down, grind it out RB for certain, and never will be.. But then, not many RB's are even close to the talent of AD. Nevertheless, the fact that against the Jets the Bills 38 rushes for 68 yards for a 1.8 YPC average for both Spiller and Jackson was beyond ridiculous. I realize that the Jets had the #1 defense against the run, and allowed only 2.9 YPC against them so far this season. If the Bills ever want to build a team that can win consistently, that they need to build a ran game that can control the LoS and clock against anybody. So the OP has a point about the new Bills OC figuring out a way to get Spiller the ball and allow him to be in the open.

While I wholehearted agree with the traffic cone, and two other sub par players on that line. However, I disagree with that last line. Spiller was an absolute terror last season, and averaged 6.0 yards per carry average. Anyone else in the NFL have that kind of ability to average 6.0 YPC? Oh yea, Adrian Peterson at 6.0 & RG3 at 6.8. RG3 paid for all his running with surgery, and AD is facing defenses keyed to stop him, just like with Spiller. But unlike Spiller, AD is still #4 in rushing. I suppose that is because he hasn't been injured this year like Spiller has been. Still, AD is only averaging 4.4 YPC this year. CJ is 21st, and averaging 4.1 YPC. Teams can stop Spiller by stacking the box and keying on him because of the lame running offense Nate Hackett is using him in. Plus the injuries. Plus his style of play. Spiller was excellent in Gaileys spread offense by breaking long runs, which happens when that LoS is spread out. But that offense couldn't make a first down on 3rd and one by running it, couldn't control the LoS by passing or running, and kinda why they didn't win many games. NEWS FLASH, EJ isn't going to be able to carry the team every single game like he did against the Jets. So with no dominate run ability to control the LoS this years team will most likely end up with last years record. Read this, written after week 3 of 2011, 9/30/2011 : http://espn.go.com/b...o-bills-offense "Gailey's system thrives on several core principles. First, by lining up with four receivers, Buffalo is able to "expand the defense." Buffalo's alignment forces defenses to spread out. It creates bigger seams, and makes it easier for the quarterback to read defenses and recognize blitzes. " "Buffalo's spread also takes defenses out of their comfort zones. Every base defense in the NFL has three or four linebackers. At some point in the next few months, or year..that is if he is still the Bills OC / QB coach after this season. Hopefully, Nate Hackett will remove his head from his posterior and go back and look at the film of why Gailey's offense was so successful running Spiller in the spread, and start using the same offense. Lets also hope that the FO / Whaley realizes he needs better players on that line to win games.

That, and the fact that this isn't close to the same offense he played in last season. The 4 wide shotgun spread offense that Gailey utilized allowed Spiller to make big gains after he broke a single tackle. Teams are now keying on Spiller and making it their primary concern to stop him by stacking the box. Then Nathaniel Hackett is playing right into their hands by going with traditional pro sets, TE's , FB. Spiller needs space to make plays, and it should be a priority of this new Bills OC to find a way to get him open.

That win ignited a firestorm under their backsides because the Carolina news was lambasting the team for losing to lowly Buffalo. That was a good team that just relied on their front four to rush the passer, and giving credit to the Bills O line they held up pretty good against a very good front line D.

I agree. While I do agree that not having a proven veteran backup QB, and CB hurt the team over the first five games. I also think there was also a big problem with that O line, and like many here I voiced my concerns before the season even started. Consider that the team was starting a rookie QB and his backup was an un drafted free agent. The Bills O line allowed 8 sacks in the Jets game in week 3. It wasn't just the starting LG Colin Brown, it was also the lack of decent depth behind Brown. Backup OL Sam Young went into that Jets game for a series after Urbik left the game with an injury, and Young promptly allowed two sacks in one series. Needless to say, Urbik was able to return to the game and Young never saw the field again. The Bills claimed OL Antoine McClain from the Raiders and released Sam Young, after week five on Oct 7th. Then once Legursky was able to return to the lineup from injury starting LG Colin Brown was benched, and on Oct 15th he was released from the team. The Bills promoted OL Mark Asper from the practice squad to replace him on the roster. How bad was LG Colin Brown? He graded an astoundingly bad (-23.7) grade after only three games! To put that grade in perspective CB Justin Rodgers (who was recently released from the team) in that Jets game was targeted eight times and surrendered six receptions for an absurd 247 yards, and two TD's. That represents 74% of the Jets’ gross passing total. Rodgers grade for that game was a mere (-3.8). Jeez, even Spiller against the Jets this week (who only rushed for 6 yards on 13 attempts) graded at (-2.1). Spiller picked up 10 yards after contact, so he was basically getting hit before he even got to the LoS. I still have strong concerns about that current Bills O line and depth. If this team ever wants to see the playoffs, eventually win in the playoffs, advance to the SB, they need much, much better play from that line. While I'm glad Buddy Nix, and his bizarre thoughts that you don't need a top O line to win in today's NFL is no longer in control. I have to wonder if that clown instilled his thoughts into new GM Whaley, considering what they went into the season with.

I agree, as I don't entirely blame the O line either. I think a lot has to do with how the RB's are being utilized in Nathaniel Hacketts offense. As PFF stated the RB's (Jackson) have to produce yards on their own given how the line is blocking, and FJax is 5th highest in the league at doing just that. Spiller was much better last season at breaking that first tackle then this year...injured wheels might be the issue. I have to agree with Bill here, as I think the Bills could have won one or two more games at the beginning of the year with better play from the LG position. Protecting the QB is so important in my view. Not to mention building a decent power running attack.

That might be somewhat true of the national media. I can assure you that other teams are watching what the Bills are doing on defense, and particularly because stats don't tell the entire story. Only two teams have scored more then 30 points on the bills. While I don't think he will get any looks for a HCing job, I do think he will get many looks as a replacement DC for several teams.

Yea, the entire defense. Super Mario with 11 sacks already. The Bills the #1 team in tackles.

To the individuals who were previously so adamant that this years O line was fine. That the O line graded so well that they wouldn't suffer the loss of LG Andy Levitre at all. Continually stalking my every post in the off season when I would voice my concerns about the O line with such a condescending attitudes. All I say is, well done, and look again. Some individuals clearly don't know as much as they think they do, as Andy's replacement Colin Brown graded as the worst LG in the NFL after the first five weeks, with the exception of his backup. Since both players were cut from the roster after week five I'd have to say that O line wasn't fine at all, period! 38 rushes with a 1.8 YPC average gives me great pause for concern as the rookie QB was again forced to carry the offense in this game. The O line was one area that needed to be one of the strongest on the team to help support a rookie QB, and it hasn't been every game. This game the Bills were lucky that the rookie QB & defense played brilliantly. Its not just about accumulating yards each week or at the end of the season. Its about winning games and being able to control the line of scrimmage, and clock by running when needing to do so. Counting on the QB to bail out the offense each game is exactly what got Chan Gailey and his predecessors fired.

Exactly, as its kinda scary to think of another DC like Wannstooge or George Edwards in Buffalo running that defense next year. My take is Pettine will get a lot of looks by other teams needing a strong DC / assistant HC. He can make a lateral move if given the assistant to the HC title by another team. This is something the Bills should consider if they intend to hold on to him. The Dallas Cowboys owner must be thinking of making a change again....

EJ made Hackett look great this week. But, to his credit Hackett did run the ball much more then in previous games 38 rushes vs 28 passes. The Bills were able to score 20 points and that allowed the defense to blitz Geno like crazy. Still, it has to be a major concern when you average only 1.8 yards per rush all game. Spiller was 13 rushes for 6 yards Hackett needs to get this kid in space to allow him to break free with his speed or use him as a WR. I would think running the spread offense and hand off out of the shotgun like Gailey used to do might work. (3rd QTR, at 5:07)1st and 10 on the Bills 17 yard line. EJ to TJ for 40 yards to the NY Jets 43. EJ to Goodwin for 43 yards TD. 2 passes from the Bills 17 yard line to a TD.

What is it with Bills fans and stats... lies, damned lies and statistics! As if yesterdays stats & Spillers stats aren't enough for you... "Can the Bills Run the Ball? The whole Bills offensive line grades out at -23.9 with only one of them earning a non-red grade: Cordy Glenn (+0.1). Eric Wood and Erik Pears are the second worst graded players at their position in run blocking both at -10.4. The running backs have to produce yards on their own given how the line is blocking and Fred Jackson is being the best at it averaging 2.62 yards after contact per attempt – 5th-highest in the league. It’s still unclear how healthyC.J. Spiller is after playing less than 25 snaps in each of the last two games and he’s far from his numbers in 2012 when he averaged 3.58 yards after contact per attempt. This season he is averaging 1.89 which is the 25th-lowest number among running backs." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/15/3tfo-jets-bills-week-11/

I dunno... 2-8 Falcons @Toronto 2-8 @ Bucs 1-9 @ Jags 5-5 Dolphins 7-2 @ Patriots 3 teams on the road, and one of them the division leader at 7-2

My favorite part of this game was that Geno was benched while EJ was excellent !! Geno had 3 INT's & 2 fumbles this game. The entire Jets team had 22 turnovers on the year coming into this game and Geno Smith was responsible for 21 of those! Now 26 turnovers. Man love for Mike Pettine, and what he has done for this defense EJ might not always go downfield, and might not always be able to carry the entire offense on his shoulders like he did today. I'd rather have the EJ that doesn't try and force things downfield and up with many turnovers like Geno. Yea, that's right EJ carried the offense. 38 rushes for 68 yards, average per rush 1.8 YPC (FJax 12 attempts for 34 yards= 2.83) (Spiller 13 attempts for 6 yards= .46) I have to hand it to Nathaniel Hacklett, as at least he tried to get the offense to run the ball more 38 attempts rushing vs 28 passing. While the O line still can't run block very well, they certainly pass blocked well against a very good Jets D line.

They played well and did their part, no doubt! But the offense scored enough to give them breathing room, and allowed the Bills pass rush to pin their ears back and go after Geno. My fav part of today was seeing Geno benched!! To those saying that Geno was better after that first game in week 3 23 turnovers by the Jets this year, 22 from Geno