thewildrabbit

Did you read this thread? Because it looks like over the past decade this franchise has tried that same philosophy with disastrous results. Even when they had a #1 overall at QB they chose to try and change him rather then give him better protection.

In the 2000's they had one O linemen who made the pro bowl in LT Jonathan Ogden. In 2000 they won the SB with one pro bowler on offense, Odgen. In all those years of the 2000's no other Raven O linemen went to the PB. TE Shannon Sharpe made the pro bowl in 2001, and they went 10-6. TE Todd Heap made the pro bowl in 2002 they went 7-9 and 10-6 in 2003. RB Jamaal Lewis also made the pro bowl in 2003. This tells you that even having a pro bowl TE in Todd Heap doesn't mean the difference between just the playoffs and super bowl. In 2011 the Ravens had FB Vonta Leach,both gaurds LG Ben Grubbs, RG Marshall Yanda make the pro bowl....oh so the guard position isn't important....riiight! in 2012 the SB year the only offensive players to make the PB were the same FB and G, Yanda. Jeez, apparently the Ravens think its important to have quality players at the guard position. They even wasted a first round pick on a guard in Ben Grubbs...such losers

I most certainly think that the 9-7 Bills are in the playoffs in 2004 with a better O line, no question about it in my mind. The Bills would have made the playoffs if they had beaten the Steelers in the final game of the season that year. Then throughout the 7-9 Jauron years 2006-2009 that line had a decent LT in Jason Peters but not much else. Most notably lacking a decent center for most of that time. Melvin Fowler, Duke Preston, Geoff Hangartner. The mere fact that they had 3 different players at center over those years shows they lacked any kind of continuity. Eric Wood took over the center position during 2010. Besides the LT or the QB's blindside tackle, the most important position on that line is the center who usually calls the protections, and sets for the line. Stating that the line is adequate to win and yet still could use upgrades...why would they even bother upgrading if they can win the big one with the current line? Kinda of lame to contradict yourself in your own posts, don't you think?

The 6-5 Lions IN Detroit. You know, the team who just destroyed the Packers 40-10 on Turkey day, and are now 7-5 Both Atlanta 41-28 & Miami 22-19 at Tampa. This week they are playing in Carolina against an 8-3 Panther team.

First off, all this talk of finding a great TE like Gronk or Jimmy Graham is just that, talk! Because of the mere fact that the Bills haven't even tried looking for a TE like that! In order to find a top talent in a TE they would need to start drafting them. Which, like I showed earlier, they have only drafted one TE in the first three rounds only once in 13 years. I just don't get how some of you are off pipe dreaming about a top TE before the team even builds ample protection of the QB or a top run game. Second, how on earth do you compare a competent LG to a TE? Because you can't win many games with sub par players on that O line. If nothing else in my earlier posts I've proven that the lack of talent on that line equals losing seasons. Example: In 2004 despite having a #1 overall pick at QB in Drew Bledsoe. The Bills had a decent run game & defense and yet couldn't get to the playoffs because they couldn't adequately protect the QB all season. That year the Buffalo Bills had the #7 offense in points scored along with the #8 defense in points allowed / #2 in yards allowed, and yet only went 9-7 because when the chips were down in the game they simply couldn't adequately protect the QB. Opposing teams knew that if they got to Bledsoe early, then he would see phantom sackers, and hurry his throws. However, If given ample time to throw he would rip opposing teams defenses a new one. What gets me is the current coaching staff at that time knew of Drew Bledsoe's deficiencies against a strong pass rush, and wanted him to get the ball out quicker. So, they wanted a guy who had been in the league for 12 years to suddenly change his ways rather then beefing up the line to protect him. How'd that work out? If Chan Gailey proved anything during his time with the Bills, its that you can't win games by being a one dimensional pass or run team. Under Gailey the Bills could line up in 4-5 WR sets with only one decent WR and put up decent numbers in the short passing game but had great difficulty throwing deep. The run game would make big plays all over but couldn't make a 3rd and short by running if the game depended on it. Gailey never won more then 6 games while with Buffalo. Because the Bills had no deep passing game, no short yardage run game. Because he couldn't get a 1st down on 3rd and short, or punch the ball into the end zone by running it. Finesse along with smoke and mirrors only go so far. Basically, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T CONTROL THE LoS!! You need to control the line of scrimmage in both facets of the game, both running and passing to be successful. You need to be able to make a first down and short by both running and passing, score on the goal line by both running and passing. Howsabout letting the Bills find a better LG, and perhaps simply more depth for that line. Then find better players at RT & RG before they start drafting TE's looking for that elusive needle.

Probably the same reasoning that kept this team from drafting more O lineman the last 13 years, and not even sniffing a winning season... save one 9-7 season out of 13. Agree with the bolded The current Bills TE is not all that bad as they just don't throw to him enough IMO. I think they prefer to keep him in to block on most pass plays, and he is already set to surpass his last few years of receptions. Just not as many TD's. With 5 games to go Scott Chandler already has 37 receptions, 60 targets put him right behind Stevie Johnson 41 receptions, 78 targets. Chandler only had 43 receptions all of last season. The Bills have some good WR's, and all are healthy now, if EJ is given time in the pocket he should rip teams apart in the pass game. But, the Bills cannot always count on EJ playing great like he did against the Jets, and carrying the offense all by himself. The Bills need that run game to work every game, and against every opponent to help that rookie QB.

Thanks. If the Bills need a better blocking TE, well then just move a tackle out and have him block. I'm certain he would be a better road grader at 300+ lbs then a 260 lb player. What many fans are clamoring / suggesting to do is to find that elusive needle in 1000 haystacks, TE Rob Gronkowski, or perhaps TE Jimmy Graham. Exactly how many of them are currently in the league? Gronk Graham...in a class by themselves Jason Whitten Vernon Davis Antoino Gates Tony Gonzalaz Julius Thomas Greg Olsen Jorden Cameron Now, go thru the list of the three first rounders from 2000-2013 and see how many TE's the Bills drafted... one in 2005, TE Kevin Everett. The Bills would need to start drafting TE's in order to find a top one Like I've stated in other posts, I'm not so sure that a Gronk or Graham would even see the ball that often in Hackett's offense.

The Buffalo Bills won TWO AFL championships in 1964 & 1965 with some great players on that 64 & 65 O line. LT Stew Barber, LG Billy Shaw, C Dave Behrman, RG Al Bemiller, RT Dick Hudson. The Buffalo Bills went to four superbowls in 1990, 91, 92, 93. Also with some great players on the O line. LT Will Wolford, LG Jim Ritcher, C Kent Hull, RG John H Davis, RT Howard Ballard. RG Glenn Parker replaced John H Davis in 1992 because Davis only played in 9 games, and he was back for 1993. What strikes me about those winning years is that the Bills built solid O lines that were able to control the LoS with both the running and passing attacks. They basically also had the very same players each year of those 4 years during that 90's run. Also look at the careers of Will Wolford 13 years, Jim Ritcher 16 years, Kent Hull 11 years. If you look at the Buffalo Bills for most the decade of the 2000's they basically neglected the O line by various regimes, and Instead they tried to band-aid the situation. * new player or position 2000-8 picks drafted zero for the O line. Starters, LT John Fina, LG Ruben Brown, C Jerry Ostroski, RG Jamie Nails, RT Marcus Spriggs- HC Wade Phillips. (20 offense) 2001-12 picks, drafted T Jonas Jennings 2nd, 3 round pick & 5th round G Marques Sullivan. Starters, LT John Fina, LG Ruben Brown, C Bill Conaty*, RG Corey Husley*, RT Jonas Jennings*. HC Gregg Williams.(27 offense) 2002-10 picks, drafted T Mike D Williams #4 overall in the first round, 7th round Mike Pucillo. Starters, LT Jonas Jennings, LG Ruben Brown, C Trey Teague*, RG Marques Sullivan*, RT Mike D Williams*- HC Gregg Williams.(11 offense) Bledsoe. 2003-8 picks, drafted T Ben Sobieski 5th round. LT Jonas Jennings, LG Ruben Brown, C Trey Teague, RG Mike Pucillo*, RT Mike D Williams. HC Gregg Williams. (30 offense) 2004-6 picks, drafted T Dylan McFarland 7th round.Starters, LT Jonas Jennings, LG Ross Tucker*, C Trey Teague, RG Chris Villarrial*, RT Mike D Williams- HC Mike Mularkey. (#7 offense) Bledsoe (9-7) 2005- 6 draft picks, drafted 4th round C Duke Preston, 6th round G Justin Geisinger.Starters, Starters, LT Mike Gandy*, LG Bennie Anderson*, C Trey Teague, RG Chris Villarrial, RT Jason Peters* .HC Mike Mularkey.(#24 offense) 2006-9 draft picks, drafted 5th round T Brad Butler, 7th round T Terrence Pennington, 7th round G Aaron Merz. Starters, LT Jason Peters*, LG Mike Gandy, C Melvin Fowler*, RG Chris Villarrial, RT, Terrance Pennington. HC Dick Jauron. (23 offense) 2007-7 draft picks, drafted zero. Starters, LT Jason Peters, LG Derrick Dockery*, C Melvin Fowler, RG Brad Butler*, RT Langston Walker*. HC Dick Jauron. (#30 offense) 2008-10 draft picks, drafted 7th round T Demetress Bell. Starters, Jason Peters, Derrick Dockery, C Duke Preston*, RG Brad Butler,RT Langston Walker. HC Dick Jauron. (#23 offense) 2009-8 draft picks, drafted 2nd #1 pick (28th) C Eric Wood, 2nd #2 (51) G Andy Levitre. Starters, LT Demetress Bell*, RG Andy Levitre*, C Geoff Hangartner*, RG Eric Wood*, RT Kirk Chambers*. HC Dick Jauron. (#28 offense) 2010-9 draft picks, drafted 5th round T Ed Wang, 7th round T Kyle Calloway. Starters, LT Demetress Bell, LG Andy Levitre, C Geoff Hangartner, RG Eric Wood, RT Mansfield Wrotto* (RT Cornell Green) . HC Chan Gailey (#28 offense) 2011-9 draft picks, drafted 4th round T Chris Hairston, starters, LT Chris Hairston*, LG Andy Levitre, C Eric Wood*, RG Kraig Urbik*, RT Erik Pears*. HC Chan Gailey (14 offense) 2012-9 draft picks, drafted 2nd round T Cordy Glenn, 5th round T Zerbie Sanders, 6th round G Mark Asper, Starters, Cordy Glenn*, LG Andy Levitre, C Eric Wood, RG Kraig Urbik, RT Eric Pears. HC Chan Gailey (21 offense) 2013 8 draft picks zero drafted. Starters, LT Cordy Glenn, LG Colin Brown*/ Doug Legursky, C Eric Wood, RG Kraig Urbik, RT Eric Pears. HC Doug Marrone. (22 offense) There have been so many injuries to the O line players its almost impossible to track each and every player that started a game from 2000-2013. All the changes made almost every year didn't allow much in the way of the proverbial "continuity" needed for the success of that line. While it appears that the Bills drafted enough linemen. The reality is that anything drafted after the 3rd round was usually a wasted pick, and didn't stay a starter or even stay with the team very long. So if you look at only those players, 5 were drafted out of 46 drafted in the first 3 rounds. Run that thru the new analytic dept. Anyway, Its obvious to me that when the Bills drafted early for the O line they usually had great success, and "IF" they had kept LG Andy Levitre they not only could have possibly won more games this year, had better play in the run game. They would have only needed to upgrade 2 positions instead of 3. I can see why the Bills didn't retain Levitre, what I can't understand is why they didn't see that neither starting LG Colin Brown or his backup Sam Young being as bad as they were as they do practice against their own D line, one of the NFL's very best. Now the Bills are making a "long-shot" run at the playoffs and should any of the current starters go down the season would most likely be over that quickly. The Bills also only drafted 4 QB's in that entire timeline, two 1st rounders (EJ), and one of those the 2nd 1st round pick (JP). One 3rd rounder (TE), one 7th rounder. 3 of 46 This team spent more resources on the defense, CB's, and look what they accomplished by doing that. 2000 DE-DB-LB 2001 DB-DE-RB-DT-T 2002 T-WR-DE-DB 2003 RB-DE-LB 2004 WR-QB-DT 2005 WR-TE 2006 DB-DT-DB 2007 RB-LB-QB 2008 DB-WR-DE 2009 DE-C-DB-G 2010 RB-DT-DE 2011 DT-DB-LB 2012 CB-T-WR 2013 QB-WR-LB-WR

Thank you, finally another poster who sees what I see. Or if Wood goes on IR like he has the past 3 years. That could end all this playoff talk very quickly. The thing is, I don't see this FO / GM / coaching staff changing their ideas that the guard position isn't very important, or that the line doesn't need some serious upgrades or depth. So with that #1 pick, a Mack truck

ganesh, this coaching staff was looking at Hairston to push Pears for that starting RT job this year, and or at least be a solid back up. He is neither as he has been on IR all year. http://www.buffaloru...ury-2013-season " Hairston was slow to recover from an ankle/foot injury, and ostensibly picked up an illness of some sort along the way. He was originally pegged as a starter." http://www.rotoworld.../chris-hairston who knows... Really? Seriously? Name me some players penciled in as starters that were outright cut by their team after 5 weeks, along with their backups. Let me add that the mere fact that some posters were so wrong about that O line being fine with Brown and Young, and refuse to admit they were wrong is an indictment as to why i choose to ignore them. They choose to keep their heads in the sand, or other dark areas is fine by me. Some posters here have already admitted they were wrong and I salute their honesty, an integrity. cheers

I agree, but then it should have been a top priority the last decade and hasn't been. Chan Gailey didn't use Scott Chandler very much in his passing game, as he preferred him more of a blocker, and now neither does Hackett. My take is he prefers him to stay in to block for the rookie QB. His 43 receptions last year puts him in the same amount as CJ Spiller who had 17 less targets. 4, 3, 5, 2, 4,2, 2, 7, 3, 3, 2 have been the catches for Chandler so far this season. 37 receptions, 60 targets. With 5 more games to play Chandler could surpass when he has done in the past, if he stays healthy. Considering how crippled the Bills receiver corps has been the last few weeks its kind of surprising that Chandler hasn't be utilized more often in the passing game. So, as much as the fan base would love a #1 pick Jimmy Graham type TE, would this offense even use him often?

This is exactly right, and Doug Legurski was brought in to be the backup center and not the starting LG. There is still a big weak link at LG! That said, RT & RG aren't exactly manned by star players either, and are merely adequate at times. 77 hits on the Bills QB's puts them at #4 most in the NFL, and 8th worst in sacks allowed. Those stats alone tell me this line is still not as good as some are touting it to be. A few of the posters in this thread stated before the season started that this O line would be fine with Colin Brown at LG. Clearly the line wasn't fine at all because the Bills cut both starting LG Colin Brown and his backup, and that line is still not fine. It takes a small man to admit he is never wrong...

Naa, no way, I don't agree. This years O line has played decently at times. As for the rushing against the Jets with the 1.8 YPC. Well then yea, as that might be the worst I've seen ever by a Buffalo Bills team. Think back to what prompted Dick Jauron to draft Levitre and Wood in the same draft in 2009. Because in 2008 they had Jason Peters & Langston Walker at the tackle position with Dockery, Butler at G, and Duke Preston at center. Against the NY Jets, their NT Kris Jenkins was triple teamed by both Bills guards and the center and still got to Trent Edwards. The Bills just couldn't stop Jenkins all game. It was thoroughly embarrassing as it was noted by the game announcer Phil Sims. Then the Bills had basically the same problem with the Patriots NT Vince Wilfork. C'mon, Mansfield Wrotto at RT & Demetress Bell at LT, where are those two now? In 2010 the Bills had a much worse O line for at least the first 5 games, what with Fitz literally running for his life and until RT Cornell Green was benched and eventually released. GM Buddy Nix scoured the waiver wire and found both Pears & Urbik who went on to become somewhat decent starters. RT Green was just about as bad as this years flop at LG, Colin Brown.

Jeez, so much disdain for a guy who was always open against coverage designed to stop him, as he was the only WR worth a damn under Gailey with his 4-5 WR sets. The Bills have a player that loves playing in Buffalo, and loves playing for the Buffalo Bills , and yet some fans want him gone. Man, i can only hope the guy doesn't read this thread and start thinking like Byrd and many other Buffalo Bill players who just want out. Jason Peters, Levitre, Poz, Whitner.

Gotta love the eternal optimism of Bills fans never lose it! The realist in me can see the Bills beating the Falcons up in Toronto as the have the 28th ranked run defense. Their O line is porous, and their best offensive weapon is on IR. Plus the Bills get WR's Stevie & Woods back this week. 5-7 @ Tampa Bay against an improved 3-8 Buc's team that just beat the Lions at Detroit. 5-8 @ Jacksonville against the 2-9 Jags that just beat the Texans at Houston 13-6. Still 6-8 Miami at home, and the Bills play so much better at the Ralph. 7-8 @ New England, and the Bills don't play so well on the road, and against the best team in the AFC 7-9. Which is still better then Gailey, and better then I had previously thought. "IF" the Bills can fix the run game, give EJ better protection on the road...then 9-7 is an actual possibility.

No, a total of 17 isn't that bad. But, currently the Bills have allowed 32 sacks, 8th most in the NFL. Interestingly, the Bills are currently #4 in the NFL in QB hits allowed with 77. Clearly, the Bills O line has performed much, much better at pass blocking, and while at home in Buffalo. They were particularly bad in all areas on the road at New Orleans & Pittsburgh. Last weeks rushing at home was so pathetic it should alarming to some Bills coaches, and really make them think about whats happening with that line. 38 attempts for 68 yards for a 1.8 YPC average, wasn't just bad, it was god awful bad!! Like I stated earlier in this thread, that the Bills shouldn't force the rookie QB to carry the team to wins every week. Putting in an extra OT to block instead of a TE, to running the 4 WR spread offense to force a LBer to cover a WR, and if the defense shifts to nickle or dime coverage it allows the RBs the advantage. Even the Bills coaches themselves admit they need to work on correct the problem with the run game. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Revitalizing-ground-game-critical-for-stretch-run-/4aee626c-1e37-4642-af45-7a62d388199f The Bills need a new LG for certain, and if the Bills only played home games, and only passed then the current line would be fine. Since no team can win consistently by being one dimensional, I can only hope that RG & RT also get addressed by next season. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2013&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go BTW, the run game should look much better at home against the #28 ranked run defense of the Falcons.

Lets not forget that he wants to be the highest paid safety in the NFL... is he really worth that much? Or will the Bills draft HaSean "Haha" Clinton Dix with that first round pick? Or tag him again and draft an OLB Mack / Mosley?

Mack will be gone by the time Buffalo drafts IMO. TE is a need for sure. But a LG is even a higher priority As of this week the Bills draft #10 Houston-QB Bridgewater Jacksonville-QB Mariota Atlanta- DE Jadeveon Clowney or OT Jake Matthews, the bigger need in my view is to protect the QB. If Clowney is still there I can't see them passing him up. Minnesota-QB Manziel or Carr St Louis-OT Tampa Bay-OT or LBer Oakland QB or WR , QB Hundley Cleveland QB or OT, QB Mettenburger / Tajh Boyd NY Giants OLB Mack Buffalo...I suppose this pick will highly depend on if the Bills intend to sign Byrd or franchise him again. I could see Mack, CJ Mosley or even an OT going here depending on who is available. The QB's always move up higher then they should and so many in the top ten are looking to upgrade

I can recall the Baltimore Ravens drafting QB Joe Flacco and his biggest fault was that he wasn't very mobile, was a statue, and couldn't escape the rush. So the Ravens built a better power run game while sometimes substituted OT's for TE's, thus utilizing 3-4 tackles on that O line to protect their young QB on run and pass plays. I can recall a 2009 wildcard playoff game at New England in which the Ravens won 33-14 with Flacco as QB. His stats for the day in that playoff game were 10 attempts passing, 4 completions for 34 yards, one INT in a playoff game the Ravens won, and he was the only Raven to throw a pass. The Patriots were dominated by defense and on the ground to the tune of 52 rushes for 234 yards and four TD's. They kept the ball away from Tom Brady on a very cold day by running it all game, and playing great defense. To me this was the blueprint to beating the Patriots, and at the same time showing how properly develop a young QB. Apparently, nobody in the Bills FO or coaching staff took notice.

@ home Against the Jets he didn't even get to the line before he was getting hit. Dunno how much I can lay on his shoulders for this. The line also played very poorly in all aspects against the Steelers.

Updated draft order after week 12 the Bills draft 10th TEAMS 1 Houston ...QB? 2 Jacksonville ...QB? 3 Atlanta DE Jadeveon Clowney 4 Minnesota ...QB ? 5 St. Louis (WAS) LBer? 6 Tampa Bay OT? 7 Oakland QB? 8 Cleveland QB? 9 New York Giants LBer? 10 Buffalo LBer Khalil Mack ? http://www.cbssports...t-order-week-12

I'm thinking this woman wants to keep this "inactive" until this QB gets drafted in the first round so she can then make a claim.

I have to think Woods, Goodwin, Hogan are all way better then the WR corps on the roster in previous years (besides Stevie), even "Mr Maydrop" Graham is better Personally, I just can't wait until this current corps is fully healthy and get into rhythm, timing, sync with EJ. Because just imagine, If Stevie can constantly get open being the ONLY WR on the field worth a damn. Then consider what can happen when teams try and double Stevie, as the match ups will start getting insane should the Bills go to 4 WR sets. The Bills will have more then one deep threat and a QB that can actually deliver the ball deep down field. Either you will get LBers trying to cover some WR's or they will go into nickle & dime coverage and allow the running game to make big plays. Should the Bills stay in the hurry up / no huddle then you will see LBers trying to cover those WR's. Its a getting to be a good time to be a Bills fan

After reading a bunch of this, I'm thinking most of the posters have no real clue as to what its like to perform as an athlete and not be able to do their job because of an injury. The guy has been hurt all year and has been tough enough to go out on the field and attempt to play thru the bad back, the groin pull, and other assorted injuries. Stevie is still the best WR the Bills have had in a long time

Yea, but they did that with Mr deer in headlights at QB. It was looking so easy against Atlanta with Matt Ryan & Steven Jackson both out injured, and their defense playing poorly...right up until last week when both players returned, and they held the Saints to 17 pts. Shoot, they now have Roddy White back looking healthy. It was looking easy when both the Bucs and Jags hadn't won a game. The Jags are now 2-9 and just beat the Texanx AT Houston. The Bucs just beat the Lions AT Detroit 24-21 with that rookie Glennon at QB, and are now 3-8. It looked so easy against the reeling 2-6 Steelers who had just been beaten by the Patriots 31-55 the week previous. 5-6 Miami was looking so easy with their team in turmoil right up until they beat the 5-6 Chargers & nearly beat 8-3 Carolina. Then 8-3 New England looked hapless at the start of last nights game and was down 24-0, Brady then took the game to OT and won it. With the very last possibility of getting a WC "IF" a bunch of others teams lose and the Buffalo Bills win all 5 remaining games....in all reality the Bills should be drafting in the top ten again