thewildrabbit

Some fans can't help it, and some still revere Buddy Nix as a great GM. I can recall the NFL network the moment TJ Graham was selected by the Bills. Mike Mayock started ruffling thru his papers trying to find something on Graham. Then they went to a commercial and when they returned all Mayock could say was is that he had Graham graded as a later then a 5th round pick....the 7th round to be exact. Buddy Nix patted himself on the back after he announced he had traded up one spot (given up a 7th rounder) to draft Graham. Stating who says we don't trade up. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=2012&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC&startspot=30 Looking at the 2013 draft with Whaley making the choices, I can only think the stupidity has ended.

While I don't have the disdain for Marrone that others have, I've started to gain quite a bit of dislike for OC Nathaniel Hackett. I was defending Hackett up until that Chiefs game when he let that super raw rookie QB Jeff Tuel sling it around 39 times, 43 actual drop backs. All Hackett needed to do was look at Tuel's college history to know enough to not put the game in the QB's hands, where the kid went 4 wins, 26 losses. That Chiefs game was very winnable. That first series in the second half of the Chiefs game is a perfect example of giving up on the run and forcing the rookie to make a play. The Bills drove 79 yards to the Chiefs one yard line all by running the ball, and then on 3rd and one on the goal line he let the raw rookie QB throw it up for grabs. If Hackett continues with this plan of making the rookie QB carry the offense every game, I think Marrone is going to need to make a change this off season. I also echo these sentiments

For the life of me I can't ever recall a "good" Bills team just outright cutting the starting players after five games or more. These last two regimes both did that very thing with the starting QB Trent Edwards, and then RT Cornell Green who they brought in and paid 2 mill per to take over the RT spot. I have to think that Edwards looked even worse then usual at the start of that year, and result of his being cut was probably because of the poor performance of that 2010 starting O line. They started 0-8 that year, and once Fitz took over he was literally running for his life at times because that line was so bad. Buddy Nix managed to pull Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik off the waiver wire and make them starters. That year Cornell Green had 5 starts at RT, Mansfield Wrotto had 7 starts, and Pears finished up the season. If I recall correctly the starting center Hangartner had back problems,so Wood moved over to center and Urbik started at guard. I can recall players being benched, but not outright cut and replaced with unknowns right off the waiver wire. Because the 2010 debacle happened under Nix I can't help but think he probably reassured Whaley those players I mentioned on this years team could do the job. I followed the Knox, Levy, Phillips teams pretty closely and I don't recall seeing mistakes as glaring as those. Another something I just don't get, Is why Bills fans continuously have made excuses for the last GM / HC in Nix / Gailey and their many, many mistakes, and now it starts anew.

Who put the player on the field in the first place? The do have tiers of ability, and its up to the coaches to evaluate the talent, and put the best players on the field. Some players like LG Colin Brown or CB Justin Rodgers should have never been starters or even seen the field during a regular season game. Jeff Tuel should have never seen the field this year as the starting QB. Backup guard Sam young should have never seen the field. All but Tuel have been outright cut from the team, and Tuel is now 3rd string. I get it that Marrone, Hackett are rookie NFL coaches at their jobs, and so is new GM Doug Whaley. So in my view they get more of a pass in their first year then both very NFL experienced Buddy Nix / Chan Gailey should have gotten. To their credit they have already equaled Nix / Gailey in their first 2010 season. Plus, this years Bills still have a chance to finish with a winning record, and they managed this with 3 very raw rookies at QB too.

That was before last year, and Whaley. Kiko, EJ, Woods, Goodwin all look like hits. 3 OT's, 3 QB's, one DE, one OLB, one WR in the top 11 per CBS sports one DE, 2 OLB, one ILB, 2 QB, one DT, 2 OT's, 2 WR's in the top 11 per ESPN In the first the Bills could fill WR-OLB-OT http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/2/5164840/2014-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills ESPN has Hasean "Haha" Clinton-Dix as the best FS out of Alabama.... dunno if I'd even look at that kid with a name like that. Might as well have a nickname like "toast" To those wanting a TE... http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2013/11/21/5128988/2014-nfl-draft-tight-end-rankings-jace-amaro-eric-ebron

The Bills now draft @#9 instead of #10 The Bills at 4-8 are only one game ahead of 5 teams, and they play 2 of those teams on the road. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2013/12/2/5164840/2014-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills Getting closer to Clowney...

double YIKES! Keep Stevie, keep Branch. Chandler basically lost that Atlanta game with his fumble, and is wasn't coming off an injury. He needs to be replaced in the draft.

My take is some of you are way overreacting over this rookie QB A Rookie at QB. He didn't have a full pre season as he was injured and only played in the two first most inconsequential games. The result of this was not getting enough playing experience, time to learn to read defenses, get his timing down with his starting receiving corps. To me this was the first of several setbacks. EJ played rather well the first five weeks IMHO. Going 2-2 in the first four games with a close game against the Patriots in week one. Then, If I'm not mistaken the score in that Browns game was 24-17 until EJ left with an injury. That knee injury was another setback for this rookie QB missing another four games of learning experience. Both WR's Johnson and Woods were listed at probable for this weeks game, meaning that they both were still not 100% healthy. Like JohnC stated, this season was never about the playoffs considering the other players on the roster. It was about learning if this rookie QB can become a top QB. Again, look what he has done with less talent around him then the NY Jets Geno Smith. who has 8 TD's, 19 INT's, 8 fumbles = 27 turnovers. The Jets have 3 first round, and a 2nd round pick on their O line. 1st & 2nd round picks at WR. EJ 8 games, 9 TD, 4 INT's 4 fumbles I love EJ as I see pocket presence when he gets decent protection. I see leadership. I see the ability to carry the entire offense...some games. I see a QB that knows how to run a 2 min drill, and could have won that game yesterday if not for some bad luck with 2 different receivers fumbling the ball away on two consecutive series.

For me, as I understand that this owner Ralph Wilson is the sole reason as to why a money man, (and not a football man) like Brandon is the CEO. 12 mill per is a lot of reasons as to why the Bills play a "home game" in Toronto, and this was Brandon's Idea. Lets face it that Brandon has had his hand in things for quite a while now, and probably since Marv Levy left the Bills as GM. I am just so darn happy Buddy Nix is no longer in control of who gets drafted or who is brought in during free agency. I'm hoping this last draft / free agency was all Whaley, and he doesn't retain Nix's thoughts on the O line, and that guards are a dime a dozen. The difference between this season and the previous three under Nix have been drastic with improvements to LBing, QB, WR corps. Marrone is still a rookie HC, with a rookie OC and staff, the fact that he hired Mike Pettine shows me he has a world of knowledge and improvement over Nix / Gailey on the defensive side. Unlike Gailey who hired DC George Edwards, and in his first 8 games had a pair of QB's running for their lives, and a team that went 0-8 until Nix could find replacement scrubs off the waiver wire for the O line. For me the jury is still out on this coaching staff until the end of the season as this new Bills OC keeps calling offensive plays just like Chan Gailey used to do, with the thinking that he has a veteran "elite" QB behind center with enough experience to carry the team each and every game. He doesn't, as he has a very raw rookie at QB who needs a dominate run game controlling the LoS & clock to help win games. Brandon, is this owners choice to keep the team profitable, so when he passes the team will be a very desirable commodity to the highest bidder. GM, if this years draft and free agency period is an indicator of the next two years, Marrone and his OC need to change the way they call plays. Build a dominate run game, and stop depending on the rookie QB to carry the team every game Man love for DC Mike Pettine and what he has shown this season on D vs what his predecessors George Edwards & Dave Wannstedt showed.

That fumble by Stevie would have been forgotten had the Bills scored on the next series, or had Scott Chandler not done the exact same thing in the next series and really gave the game away. Stevie just coming off a series injuries so I'm not going to condemn him as he is still the Bills best option at WR, and from what I saw on the field is that nobody is as down on Stevie Johnson as he is on himself. The Bills were 4-7 and a bad team this year due to various reasons. The Atlanta Falcons at 2-9 were not as bad as their record indicated. Lets not forget that this same basic team went 13-3 last year, same HC, same QB, only this season they suffered several key injuries to star starting players. As for EJ, I still think that so many fans simply don't understand the developmental process that takes place in order for a QB to become great, 3-4 years for proper development. Look at the team around the QB, and realize he is limited by his receiver corps ( 2 top WR's just back from injuries), his coaches, his O line, and the teams inability to control the clock. Just be thankful the Bills didn't draft that #1 ranked QB from last years draft... that the Jets just benched because of his ineptitude, AND his 20+ turnovers this year so far.

Look at your display name, are you forgetting who hired, and then was forced to fire that loser Chan Gailey? Buddy Nix brought in FA RT Cornell Green at 2 mill per in 2010, only to see this player benched and cut by week 5 of that year. Name me the great free agents brought in for 2010? This exact same scenario happened this season with LG Colin Brown and his backup at guard Sam Young. both were benched and eventually cut and gone from the team around / after week 5. The guy brought in to be the backup center is now the starting LG, and god forbid any of the starters go down because all that's left is waiver wire players recently picked up. It was probably Nix who assured Whaley that Brown & Young would be serviceable. Buddy Nix and his half-assed philosophy of guards are a dime a dozen has screwed this team time and again, and this year is no different with inferior play at LG. Nix and his stupidity couldn't find a pass rusher in the draft during his tenure with the Bills, so he signed the most expensive FA DE ever. If Nix was a scout that found Byrd, he was also a scout that found Maybin!!This move of Super Mario while good, also handcuffed the team with other free agents and Bills players they could sign. More on this to come next year when he will cost the team 18 mill per. I could go on and on about Buddy Nix and his screw ups, like allowing the move to the 4-3 to 3-4 and back to a 4-3. Then allowing the hiring of DC George Edwards, and Dave Wannstedt. This man wouldn't know a decent HC, DC, OG if they came up and kicked him in his moronic rear end. This franchise regressed from a 6-10 team that was supposedly "not that far away" to a 4-10 team, and his regime never even equaled the stupidity of Dick Jauron, and his 7-9 teams. How many of the 27 draft pick the last 3 years have become pro bowlers? I'm pretty darn happy Nix is history.

Hopefully this off season is all it takes. Buddy Nix stated "you're going to think i'm crazy, but we're not that far away" and then he misses in both free agency and the draft that year. Buddy Nix made the wrong choices for his head coach, for most of his draft picks. New GM Doug Whaley has already made an impact from what I see with EJ, Woods, Kiko, Goodwin. Now he has to get rid of more of Buddy Nix's mistakes, and the Bills should be a better team next year. OLB, OG, RT,and some quality depth, along with some experience for the younger players. I'm more optimistic about this team then I ever was in the last 13 years.

Sorry to disagree, but the defense didn't lose this game. Bad luck lost this game. But then, this team was a long shot to make the playoffs at 4-7 anyway.

That Falcon team with QB Matt Ryan, WR Roddy white, RB Steven Jackson, future HoF TE Tony Gonzalez is a lot better team then their record indicates. EJ didn't turn the ball over, and he didn't lose that game for the Bills. Bad luck lost that game today IMO. Shi ...stuff happens. I'm not gonna cry over this loss because I realize they are a few players away from being a very, very good team

Whats wrong with you guys? Atlanta was not as bad as their record indicated, really! They lost their two star starting WR's in Julio Jones, Roddy White. They lost their starting RB Steven Jackson ans lost a bunch of games. All of these injuries occurred early in the season and screwed them out of the playoffs. They just got Roddy White and Steven Jackson back at full health. Last week they played the 9-2 NO Saints to a very close game 17-13. Doug Marrone & Mike Pettine are way better then any coaches this franchise has seen since Wade Phillips. The first year of their regime. Bills fans appear to have much less tolerance for losing then they did when Gailey took over and went 4-12 his first year. Man o man the excuses I recall reading for Gailey...

so much for the playoffs...

Dolphins GM really screwed his team this year by letting Jake Long & Reggie Bush leave. Along with moving Martin to LT from RT. Phins GM Jeff Ireland is effectively ruining his young QB in the process

hey Jests fans

I'll tell you what, I'm just so happy that Buddy Nix along his thoughts that the O line, and particularly the guard position just isn't that important is finally no longer in control. Its obvious to me from what I've seen that the past winning head coaches of the Buffalo Bills put great importance on the guard position. Chuck Knox drafted Jim Ritcher back in 1980 with the 1st round, 16th pick in that draft. Ritcher rode the bench for a few years playing special teams because the Bills already had a solid O line at that time Ken Jones, Reggie McKenzie, Will Grant, Conrad Dobler, Joe Devlin. 3 of those 5 were 2nd round draft picks. Jim Ritcher went on to play LG for 14 years for the Bills, 2 years for the Falcons. Ritcher went on to play for both Chuck Knox and Marv Levy. Both great guards for the Bills Reggie McKenzie & HoF Joe DeLamielleure made the playoffs in 1974 with OJ as the RB. Sorry, I just don't get the latest idea that the guard position is not that important in the current NFL. Because from what I see, the quickest way to the QB is right up the middle. You can have great tackles, but if the guards can't help control the middle its just as bad or worse then having bad tackles. Also, because some of the teams that have recently won the SB put a premium on that position. Someone posted a stat that drafting a guard with one of the first three picks usually results in greater success more then any other position. Plus, I've noticed that the average lifespan of those higher drafted linemen seems to be greater by far then the later round draft picks. So by drafting a linemen every other year with one of the first three picks should result in a solid line for years.

Baltimore went from 11th in rushing offense in 2012 to 26th this year, kinda dramatic reversal from my viewpoint. RB Ray Rice from the #11 rusher with a 4.4 YPC avg last season to 28th this season, 2.9 YPC avg. The Ravens had Bolden in 2012 and he was the 27th ranked WR in the NFL that year, and scored 4 TD's, Pitta was ranked 62nd, and scored 7 TD's. This season Torry Smith got much better, and is already ranked #9 overall with 54 rec, 952 yards 4 TD's, TE Dallas Clark 31 rec, 3 TD's TE Ed Dickson 16 rec, WR Marlon Brown 29 rec, 5 TD's, Jacoby Jones 25 rec, 2 TD's. I think Flacco misses Pitta more then Bolden, but then this years TE's already have 47 receptions. The 2012 Ravens were 15th in passing attempts, 15th in passing yards. 12th in rushing attempts, 11th in rushing yards. The 2013 Ravens are still 14th passing attempts, 19th in passing yards. 14th in rushing attempts, 28th in yards. That Baltimore defense is actually better this season. Joe Flacco was sacked 35 times in all of 2012, and already has been sacked 39 times in 12 games in 2013. To me the biggest difference between this year and last in the inability to get the run game going consistently, same RB, same FB, same basic O line, save the center. Different OC.

You might be right about that for last season, as he did get hot in the playoffs and won the SB MVP. However, he didn't look like an elite QB his first few years with the Ravens as they won mostly with a top defense and run game. Has Flacco ever been voted to the pro bowl? I wouldn't consider him an "elite" QB, and this season he is proving that in his play without that dominate run attack. I don't think he has even ever been ranked in the top ten QB's in the NFL.

Well he certainly wouldn't have passed the current drug testing programs in the NFL, and would probably be working on his 3rd strike or gone like you said. I can recall LT stating that it was crazy for a young player in his time, 90k in his pocket, and looking to score some drugs and girls. LT didn't need coke to play well tho, as both he and Bruce Smith proved they could be the very best without it. Anyway, Stevie should kill this thread this weekend when he starts against the Falcons, and does well.

What you will find CD is that some Bills fans can be belligerent, simply because they can, and want to. Several of the posters in this thread stated before the season started that the O line was fine without LG Andy Levitre, that the RB's would continue their success of 2012 and the line would be a top 5 line for 2013. Those posters were obviously very wrong, and not only that, some continue to state the line is fine, and one of the best in the NFL, even when most can clearly see it is not. Some state that this team could win a SB with the current players on the line, and yet it could use 3 of 5 upgraded. What is great about this forum is that we get to choose who we care to respond to, and ignore the fans that think the only valid opinion is their own. This thread was started about controlling the LoS, and not just about having an "elite" QB as the only answer. The last team to win a SB finished 10-6, and got hot in the playoffs. That team also had a very dominate run game scheme. They were #15 in passing yards and #15 points. #12 in rushing attempts and #11 in rushing yards. They won the SB with a known "statue" pocket passing QB who was properly developed in a dominate running offensive scheme. That ultimately became more of a passing scheme. That 2012 Raven O line, LT Michael Oher (1st rd pick) LG Bobbie Williams, C Matt Birk (all pro from Vikings) RG Marshall Yanda (all pro, 1st round pick) RT Bryant McKinnie (#1 pick & all pro from Vikings) / Kelechi Osemele (2nd round pick) So, 2 first draft round picks by the Ravens, 2 first round picks, with one also an all pro acquired in free agency. A 2nd round draft pick. Pretty darn solid O line built to control the LoS by running and passing and give the QB ample time to make all the necessary throws. Lets hope the Bills will build one as good for EJ. In week 14 of the 2012 season the Ravens fired the OC that developed Joe Flacco, and replaced him with the QB coach Jim Caldwell, who was the HC the previous year at Indy Colts (2-14). That OC the Ravens fired was Cam Cameron, who also helped develop QB's Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. He was also instrumental in building some of the very best power running attacks in the NFL, Chargers RB LaDainain Tomlinson & Ravens RB Ray Rice. The Ravens once dominate run game went into the ceramic convenience this season because of that coaching change JMO.

Both those Colts and Packers teams you mention depended more on the QB then most other teams because of their passing schemes. The 2008 Patriots lost QB Tom Brady in the opening game and still went 11-5 with a QB that hadn't started a game since high school. Again you mention two QB's who have lower graded O lines with both Big Ben & Rodgers. Both of whom take a lot of sacks because of their chosen style of play. That is to float around in the pocket waiting for a receiver to break open, as that is a truly a daring style, and does result in more injuries. Those lines are actually better then they grade because of their QB's play. The Steelers have a PB center, the Packers had a PB LT for their SB run. A good offense can often hide a lot of QB faults. Take the 2008 Ravens with rookie Joe Flacco at QB with 592 attempts rushing vs 433 attempts passing. The team surrounded the QB with decent players and this allowed that rookie to ultimately develop into a SB winning QB. Bottom line is, build the foundation first IMO. That way you can give any QB you have a chance for success. If you draft the QB first you might just end up with a beaten down player seeing phantom sackers. (JP/ TE) But then, looking over the last 13 years the Bills have been reluctant to draft QB's, as well as O linemen.

I think its more then relevant considering how many defensive players this franchise has drafted the last 13 years to not even attaining more then one 9-7 season. If its relevant to the 2000-2012 Ravens, its more then relevant to the Bills. They just had a lousy scouting dept and made wrong choices. That lone winning 9-7 season was with QB Drew Bledsoe, as they had a top QB for 3 years. Then rather then draft or acquire players to protect him better they chose the wrong coarse of action in trying to change the QB's style of play. As I mentioned earlier they had a top defense, and a top offense in all areas that 2004 season, save pass protection.