thewildrabbit

Did you read my others posts about how Levitre was never graded as a top run blocker, and got his high grade as the very best pass blocker in the league. That PBE grade is what got him big money. Aside from that, are you going to seriously ignore that Levitre graded in the green all this season. While he also graded better then the rookie RG Chance Warmack drafted with the 10th pick in last years draft. He also graded better then 3 of the 5 players on that line despite being somewhat injured all year. The biggest reason that line was bad was the very poor play of the center "Dud: Center Robert Turner (-13.1) was far from effective before his season ended." Then, Chris Johnson has never been the same since he got paid the big bucks after his holdout for his 2006 yard season. But then look at the rushing attempts in 2009 vs the other years. 358 rushes divided by 16 games equals 22.3 rushes per game. It has been said that RB's can't get into a rhythm until they get about 20 carries a game. 279 divided by 16 equals 17.4 rushes per game. Then in (2009 Johnson had 358 rushes for 2006 yards.a 5.6 YPC avg).- (2010, 316 rushes for 1364 yards. a 4.3 YPC avg).- (2011, 262 rushes for 1047 yards. a 4.0 YPC avg) (2012, 276 rushes for 1243. a 4.5 YPC avg) (2013, 279 rushes for 1077 yards. a 3.9 YPC avg) Where exactly is the huge disparity for Levitre being brought in?

I agree In regards to Mike D Williams. yea, it appears they never got over the fact that he was a dud for being drafted that early. yet he still moved to RT and played for 4 years. This was the Buffalo Bills "JaMarcus Russell" in that they failed to identify the heart and desire to be great in a player, and it must have burned someone for quite a long time. As for the Levitre debacle I put that squarely on the shoulders of the backwater bandit, and his moronic philosophy that guards are a dime a dozen. Knowing what a stooge Nix was I also put the failure to also get Byrd resigned asap. This team just doesn't put a premium on certain positions O line, S, and would rather keep drafting RB's, CB's D linemen early in the draft over and over, year after year.

This thread has a life now as Bortles declared, and he won't make it past the Jags at #3. Bridgewater and Manziel seem frail at 6'3'' 210- 6'0''205 lbs. At least Bortles is 230lbs

This! I've been advocating for years to build a better O line. While I'm no football expert by any means, I usually go by what I see in terms of the entire unit, as I'm far to lazy to evaluate each player individually, unless they are particularly good or bad.

Since this thread is about Andy Levitre, and since so many are determined to equate the Titans bad play, or more specifically Chris Johnson's bad play with LG Andy Levitre. Ole Andy was never graded as that great a run blocker to begin with. It was his superior pass blocking that got him the top PBE grade and top money. While the Bills O line was ranked 26th out of 32 in the first quarter of the season mostly because of the bad play of their LB Colin Brown. The Titan meanwhile were ranked 20th, "20. Tennessee Titans: -6.5 Stud: He wasn’t great last week, but Michael Roos (+7.4) was playing at an All-Pro level through the first quarter of the season. Dud: It’s understandable to move on from a guy because he doesn't fit your scheme, but you have to question the wisdom of replacing your starting center with a marginal talent like Robert Turner (-10.6). Summary: A lot of the talk before the year was about their new guards. Well, they haven’t quite delivered have they? Andy Levitre has earned a positive grade but has been far from dominant, while Chance Warmack has been found out in pass protection." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/09/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-first-quarter/ https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/20/ranking-the-2013-offensive-lines-second-quarter/3/ The Titans improved from a grade of 20th to 16th in the second quarter of the season. "16. Tennessee Titans: -4.5 (20) Stud: With just two negatively graded games all year Michael Roos (+16.5) is a tackle you can depend on. Dud: Center Robert Turner (-13.1) was far from effective before his season ended. Summary: A good but not great line which is disappointing given the offseason investment in it. Unfortunately, Andy Levitre has only recently hit top form while Chance Warmack has been something of a liability in pass protection. Still, baby steps. Tennessee Titans 4th QTR Stock Down: Brian Schwenke (-7.4, Q4 2013; +0.3, Q3 2013) Pass protection was a consistent problem for Schwenke when he took over the starting role in the middle of the Tennessee line but when he got that sorted over the final two games of the season his solid run blocking disappeared. He surrendered 23 pressures for the lowestPass Blocking Efficiency (94.3) of any center in the league this season but when he progressed in the final two games of the season surrendering just two pressures (1 Ht, 1 Hu) he regressed as a run blocker with his worst two games of the season (-1.3 at Jacksonville,-4.4 vs Houston). https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/02/stock-report-afc-fourth-quarter/

The 2012 overall grade for that Buffalo Bills O line was ranked 13th of 32. "13. Buffalo Bills (4) PB (pass blocking) – 5th, RB(run blocking) – 21st, PEN – 26th Stud: Although the star of the unit is Andy Levitre (+17.2), we can’t be the only ones that would like to see him do a little bit more in the run game. Dud: The only player on the line to get a significant negative grade, Erik Pears (-7.3) ended his season on injured reserve watching Chris Hairston make a pretty convincing claim to his starting spot. Summary: The line got more praise than they deserved for the ridiculousness of C.J. Spiller and his ability to make a lot out of very little. They did, however, hold up well in pass protection, providing one less excuse for the play of Ryan Fitzpatrick." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/28/ranking-the-2012-offensive-lines/3/ That (+17.2) grade is better then the grade Cordy Glenn got at the end of this year!

Thanks for the link. While I don't think PFF is full of crap for their listing him as the 39th best run blocking OG in 2012 with a grade of (-0.7) in the run blocking, and with a final grade of (+17.3) because of his pass better protection. Its just the way they grade. After all there are 64 starting OG's in the NFL. He also had the league best PBE! "Pass Blocking efficiency". "but Levitre was our top pass protector among guards grading at +15.7 with a league-best PBE of 98.5." Look at the way PFF graded him,and then look at the money he got from Tennessee.I'd have to say they did a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. "Summary: Heading into just his fifth season in the league, Levitre should be in line to become the highest paid interior lineman in this free agent class. He’s improved greatly since being drafted in the second round in 2009 and the Buffalo Bills will have a major hole to fill if they are unwilling to pay him."

Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to back up that statement?

I didn't miss any point. My question to you, did you actually read thru this thread or just start at the back end and want to add your 2 cents? Go back and read what I posted in this thread before you make assumptions. The bolded is the same type of casual cavalier attitude that flowed so heavy from the Chan Gailey apologists in his first year. Gailey never did fix the QB situation, and he never did fix the defensive coordinator situation. 16-32 it took three years to determine Gailey was a bad HC when it was obviously evident he stunk his first year at 4-10. Now aside from Doug Whaley who can bring in the proper talent. Exactly what makes you think Marrone will acknowledge he even has a problem at OG, or anywhere else on that line?

Its precisely the point, and everyone knows it! Nevertheless, there was a majority of posters in this forum that lamented the loss of Levitre and even even more were upset that no "adequate" replacement was obtained in the draft or free agency. So many fans saw that there were going to be problems on that line this season, and they were correct. Most fans here realized that you don't let the best player in an area leave and then hope some backup scrubs can handle his job. There is a decent amount of football intelligent Bills fans in this forum. The difference between the Bills FO and fans? The fans want to win, and this FO simply wants to make the team as profitable as possible, so the next owner finds this team desirous. .

From the O line, to the backup QB situation, to the ST coach, to letting Rodgers go while keeping Hogan, the OC always putting the game on the rookie QB's shoulders. I have to say that when the OC Hackett stated he would run Spiller until he threw up, I was enthralled. I didn't realize it would be running straight up the middle over and over until I threw up. When I read Marrone was "hands on" with the O line players I didn't realize that Andy Levitre's replacement & backup would grade as the very worst players in the NFL after 6 games, and then get cut. I didn't ever think I'd see a 250 lb RB gash the Bills for 147 yards on two kick offs. The new Bills punter set records for stupidity against Cleveland "The Bills announced they released the punter after a disastrous game in which he allowed Cleveland Brown return man Travis Benjamin (who?) to set a single-game franchise record with 179 yards (good enough for 6th all time). http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000255310/article/shawn-powell-cut-after-disastrous-buffalo-bills-game So yea, I'd say I'm disappointed with this new HC, and his OC, and his ST coach. Should Bills fans casually dismiss this HC of his accountability for his errors like most did with Chan Gailey in his first year?

That guy has been beating the Levitre sucks because CJ2K sucks drum all season. NVM the fact that the Titans have a rookie at center or that every other player on that Titan line grades worse then Andy. CB is in his very own bubble. Apparently you missed this post.... Hope you are right Coach Tuesday, as we fans can only hope someone at OBD (Whaley) noticed that you can't get by with Buddy Nix's philosophy that guards are a dime a dozen. What price do we fans put on winning, its priceless isn't it. Most all of us would have used up all the cap space to ensure we did all we could to win games. I'd say most fans would have paid Levitre what he wanted, or at least a top free agent OG, and the result would have been a better line. With better continuity, better protections for all those rookie QB's, a better running game that could actually make a 3rd and short when needed or control the clock. My take is the Bills would have won more then one game, more like three. That first Patriots game to play keep away from Brady from the 3rd quarter leading 21-17 . The Falcons game to run the ball to control the clock in the 4th quarter. The Chiefs game, after running 79 yards to the Chiefs one yard line. Then at first and goal they actually punch the ball in. 9-7 and the Bills are in the playoffs. Should the Bills use that 2nd round pick on an OG, and not another QB. Then I can see EJ gaining an advantage to develop properly. On another note, with better special teams play this season I could see this team winning another two games. Marrone wants to keep Danny Crossman. I'm losing faith in Marrone for many of his judgement's.

Last season saw 8 HC's get the ax, and now this year its 7 with Munchak now added to the list. Doubtful any more HC's get fired, but still so many are on the proverbial "hot seat" going into next year. The NY Giants threw their OC under the bus, and if Coughlin doesn't win next year....

The thought crossed my mind that Ike took the fall for his release.

Its how you keep a 14 year losing streak going, and going, and going. The energizer loser!

For whatever reason the Buffalo Bills have a recent storied 20 year history of thinking they can get by with mediocre, average, and sub par players on the O line. Since 1994 the Bills have drafted 172 players, and out of all those draft picks only 5 O linemen have been drafted in the first two rounds. Three of those have been recent in the last 5 years, Glenn, Wood, Levitre and the latter is already with another team. I can only surmise that the one singular common denominator over the last 20 years is the man at the top of the ladder. Yet I don't understand this change in the franchise thinking because in the previous 20 year history they had great O lines for the AFL championship teams. The Electric Co for OJ, and the Kelly years had some top talent on the line.

The biggest reason the Bills QB situation has sucked the last 20 years is because they haven't drafted many, but 3! EJ is the very first QB ever taken with the 1st, first round pick in the entire history of the 53 year franchise. Then, another big reason for so much failure even with free agent QB's is that O line hasn't been a top unit since the Will Wolford days. Aside of the catastrophic failure to draft a franchise QB. Only 3 drafted out of 172 draft picks since 1994. Then only 27 O linemen drafted. Of those 27 only 5 have been drafted in the first two rounds the last 20 years. That's freaking sad! Take your pick drafting, RB's, DB's, D linemen LBers, WR's haven't built a SB team, and mostly haven't even built a winning season. Run that thru the analytic dept.

Trade up, no. The Bills are going to have some really good options at #9

The Bills are in a good position to fill one of several needs with that #9 pick. I would not be upset to see Buffalo take an OT, a LBer, a WR, and lets face facts. QB's and OT's really climb up the draft boards the closer it gets to April. Who the Bills select will depend on who is still on the board. A true #1 WR Mike Evans, 6'5'' 225lbs or WR Sammy Watkins 6'0'' 205. Evens being compared to Vincent Jackson An OT Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan, but both these players could be gone by 9, so Cyrus kouandjio of Alabama 6'6'' 322 A LBer Khalil Mack 6'3'' 248, CJ Mosley 6'2'' 232 Should the Bills go WR or LBer in the first, then Cyril Richardson G / OT Baylor 6'5'' 335 or Gabe Jackson 6'3'' 335

I recall reading something to this effect. I looked for the article and couldn't find it. If true, I can only think its going to be another tough two years, especially for the young QB's.

Accountability starts with him and his coaching staff. What really stinks is this is a great year to draft a QB, and last year was a great year to draft an O lineman.

As bad as that grade is, it isn't as bad as LG Colin Browns or his back up at LG was thru week 5! Center Eric Wood regressed a bit as did RG Erik Pears. Then look at the grade for the replacement LG Doug Legursky "Stock Down: Doug Legursky (-8.1, Q4 2013; -2.0, Q3 2013) I would say the Bills made the right choice in not breaking the bank to keep left guard Andy Levitre, but adequately replacing him was not something they managed to do. Colin Brown notched a disastrous -30.1 overall grade in only six starts and while Legursky was an improvement but still struggled as the season went on, earning a run block grade of -1.9 or worse in five of his final six starts. An area to improve in the offseason for the Bills." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/02/stock-report-afc-fourth-quarter/ "8. Erik Pears ($2.8 million). A steady performer in each of his last two seasons, the 12th-highest paid player on the roster didn't have a good season for the Bills in 2013. Despite playing every offensive snap, his cap figure was way too high for a guy getting beat as consistently as he did." http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2014/1/1/5250636/2013-buffalo-bills-year-in-review-worst-roster-values Then considering the offensive scheme EJ was thrust into, whereas if the run game failed to do well out of the gate the entire offense fell on the Bills QB shoulders to carry the game. Rookie HC, Rookie OC, Rookie QB, and all had their own issues. The Bills FO must have more faith in EJ then the fans here do, as he is their starting QB in 2014.

While at the start of the 1992 super bowl, Rose bowl stadium in Pasadena. While inside making our way to our seats I encountered some exceedingly inebriated stout female Bills fans who were spewing some rather vile words to nearby Cowboy fans. All I could do is walk on shaking my head. You would think at 2 G's a pop it would have sheltered us from this type of behavior. There are times when it is has been truly embarrassing to be a Buffalo Bills fan the past 40 years.

Pretty amazing the results some coaches can obtain from absolute scrubs. It ain't gonna happen tho, as Marrone will stick with his ST coach and OC another year. some deja vu only with DC George Edwards.

He is, for as you stated in "filling" the roster. This speaks more to me about the coaching then it does the GM. Once the roster is filled its up to the coaches to figure out which are the starters and which are the back ups. If a player, and his back up aren't going to get the job done then the coaching staff has the entire pre season to properly evaluate what talent is on the roster. If a player is not up to acceptability then changes should have been before the season started. As the team has an O line coach, and offensive coordinator, a head coach it is difficult for me to understand how 3 different coaches had no clue that this player would grade as the very worst player in the NFL after 5 weeks, but he did! I can only suppose this is what happens with bad teams. This is exactly the very same mistake that Chan Gailey made in 2010 with FA RT Cornell Green, and we all know what the end result with Gailey was. . Anyway, Lets hope the Bills upgrade the guard positions properly this off season as I think it will help the entire offense.