I think there is always hope- just not without an outside consultant (bonified football expert) coming in and giving an honest, thorough assesment. That is the reality I see. Trends dont lie and 16 years of this is a serious trend. Ive said in other posts the constants that remain; Littman, overdorf, Brandon and the rest underneath. If I was at a company that made bad widgets for an extended period of time and all we ever did was get a few new supervisors and some new parts to make said widget chances are were still going to fail.