Alphadawg7

Devontez Walker is someone to watch at 28 IMO

We should have had this one...but it was a fun ride, thanks to those who came along with me on the ride here in the thread. At least I was right about winning out, just a play or so short from getting to the AFCCG. Im excited to see what things look like next year though with Brady getting install his offense, McD back to just HC duties, and a DC that has shown he can develop young players because Babich is going to likely have a lot of youth on D this year.

I started a thread after the draft saying that it was crazy people were hating on the Lions draft and that they probably had the best draft of anyone. All these dumb bad draft grades literally because they took Gibbs at 12 instead of 18 when they had no idea if he would even last to 18. Yes you can make a case that you don't need to take a RB early, or even that its best not to...BUT that does NOT mean its ALWAYS wrong. They got the 2nd best RB, top LB, 2nd best TE, and top S in the draft with their first 4 picks. It was a bounty then, and it proved to be a bounty on the field. I need to go find that thread where so many argued with me that Gibbs pick was terrible and their overall draft was a fail. Like most this board was slamming their draft It is why I always say, the only people who care about "draft slot" are fans...in the NFL, it doesn't matter where you are selected, it just matters what you do on the field. When the Lions finished day 2 I was looking at the number 1 or 2 prospect at 4 positions of need for the Lions in 2 rounds...thats a hell of a draft haul and why I felt then that their draft was one of the best, if not the best, back then. I loved LaPorta too, its why I waited on a TE and took him in 4 of my 5 leagues...one league a Lions fan snaked him a couple rounds earlier than he had been going so I missed out on him lol. Yet most of TSW was slamming the Lions draft last year after they made those 4 picks

Agreed, although there is one more move I think I would like to see and that is a switch at ST Coordinator. I feel like this unit was a weak spot this year and maybe a change will do the unit some good. I think there are more questions on ST than people realize too. I mean what do we make of Bass, felt like he regressed some this year, but more importantly there were multiple moments where it felt like he had lost the trust of the coaching staff when you got above 45 yards. Then there is the punting situation...I know its been a hop topic around here, and have no idea if the FO would consider a move like this, but I do think it would be a good move and prudent to bring in Araiza to at least compete for the spot. He was a top punting prospect for a reason, can't imagine he would cost much with him currently needing a job, and we need a punter upgrade.

Dont get me wrong, I am not ready to say he is better than some of the more proven studs in the league, but I do think he deserves more respect than he gets. For me, its the eyeball test. I watch every Niner game as my wife is a die hard Niner fan. I feel like Purdy's bigger crticics doubt him more on assumptions rather than watching his full games. I feel like they assume Shannahan is creating easy short throws and that the guys catching the ball do all the work. But its just not accurate when you watch the games, Purdy is really throwing some dimes out there, pushes the ball downfield (insane 9.6 ypa on the season), has incredible poise, plays tough as nails, plays with great instincts and feel for the game, etc. But thats the fun of a debate like this...its early, so easy to see both sides. I am not ready to crown him the next great QB either, but I also do feel like he should get more credit than he has gotten from people just assuming its all Shannahan.

While I think McD did a great job as DC this year, I do love this hire. McD back to focusing on HC duties, and two young promising coordinators who are already well in tune with the players strengths and weaknesses is exciting for next year. What I especially love about Babich is how well he did with young talent to get them ready because I think he is going to find himself with a lot of young players on the defensive side of the ball this year.

I get it as I was probably pounding the table as hard or harder than anyone for Metcalf before and during that whole draft as well, although I also knew there was little chance we were taking him 9th overall. I had hoped we would trade up for him when he started falling down into the late first. Once he slid into the 2nd I was pleading to go get him and then pleading to trade up from our 3rd once we took Ford and he kept sliding in the 2nd further down. But I also wasn't upset coming away with Oliver and Ford in the first 2 picks either. Ford was projected mid first, and even though I mocked him to us in the 2nd in my last mock before the draft people said I was nuts and he would never get close to our 2nd round pick. Obviously knowing what we know now, you don't take Ford there, but on draft night it was considered a steal by just about everyone. Not every pick is gonna work out though. But I would be willing to bet that Ford was likely BPA on most teams boards when we took him.

Lets not pretend that anyone had any idea who he was last draft. Drafts all the time produce stars from little known players or players who are not highly regarded. Mr. Irrelevant from last year is literally starting the Super Bowl. And honestly, had the Bills drafted Puka he would have barely seen the field and probably finished with less than 15 catches this season where he instead got 15 targets in his first NFL game due to Rams injuries. Opportunity is a major part of the equation. Had Shakir been on the Rams instead of Puka this season and got the same targets, he would have had a big season too.

So its just easy to draft game-changing players when you draft in the late 20's pretty much every season? And he has, you just don't want to acknowledge it. We took Oliver 9th...Metcalf went end of 2nd round. How are these two being compared? And wow, is it easy to know who to pick when you have seen the future. You should be a GM since you clearly knew who each stud was going to be in the 2nd round of drafts before they were picked. You mean like our 2 fast LB's who were hurt for the KC game in Milano and Bernard and allwed KC to pick apart our defense through our LBs off the street all game? LMAO...dont worry I fixed it for you. Or maybe how our All Pro CB in Tre was hurt in the 2021 game hurting our ability to cover Hill? Beane has literally been one of the best in the NFL at this over his tenure. You clearly don't follow along with any other teams.

I get all that, but what I don't get is what QB's did Shannahan actually make look good? Schaub was a product of Kubiak and there before Kyle and played at the same level once Kyle was gone. Then he was fired as an OC in Washington and lasted one season in Cleveland. Then he joined Matt Ryan for 2 seasons in the middle of Ryans career who was arguably top 5 QB when Kyle arrived. Ryan won an MVP award, but he also replicated almost exactly his MVP season 2 years after Kyle left. In SF, what QB played above their level? Beathard stunk, Mullens stunk, Jimmy G was the same QB he was when he came in week 11 via trade as he was the day he left for Oakland, and Lance was a failure. So I guess that is where I differ than others. I see the "Kyle makes QBs better" statement as a bit of an over exaggeration. Only success he had with QB's are with 2 QB's who had the same success without him. Plus, I don't get how people call it Kyles system, the whole team is really built around John Lynch's style of defense and pounding the ball. Kyle wants to throw the ball, and so badly that he kept doing so much in the SB against the Pats that they threw there way our of a SB win with those incomplete passes saving so much clock for NE to have enough time to comeback. And if you ask a Niner fan, they feel Kyle blew it trying to force the passing game against KC when SF lost to them in the SB. Purdy is really his first real success story, and it is a significant one. So I just think Purdy isn't getting enough credit for the things he has done so well because there is a mystique around Shannahan that I don't think is really that accurate. I think he is a good HC, and he is doing great with what Lynch has given him. But I just don't think this narrative that Purdy is only succeeding because of "Shannahans system" is fair to Purdy nor that accurate.

He is an interesting day 3 prospect who could come in and compete to backup Shakir. Prob a potential Harty type replacement although I don’t think he is quite as fast, but he does have good RAC ability.

Jimmy G and Brock are not even in the same league. CJ Beathard and Nick Mullens never looked good, I don't get this notion. And I don't buy they wouldn't be in the league without Shannahan when guys like Nathan Peterman hung around the league. The CJ Beathards and Nick Mullens of the world hang around the league all the time. And how can you say "he is top 15 guy" but playing at an MVP level because of Shannahan? There is no Pre-Shannahan period to establish what he is or isn't outside of Shannahan. All we have seen is him play at an MVP level in his first full season something no other QB in the past 7 years in SF has done or come close to doing. And as I showed before, Kyle and his QB expertise are grossly exaggerated. He passed on Mahomes, Watson, and Lamar when they badly needed a QB and instead rolled with guys like CJ Bethard and Nick Mullens. He passed up signing Tom Brady, Geno Smith (3 different seasons), and didn't pull the trigger on Stafford all to stick with Jimmy G. They invested 3 first rounders into Trey Lance just to have him unseated by Mr. Irrelevant because he couldn't develop him. Until Purdy came along, his entire tenure in SF since 2017 had been a total failure at QB. His track record with QB's and QB decisions in SF has not been good, and the lack of a QB is why they don't have 2 to 3 SB titles since he got there.

Dan Campbell lost them that game. Yes, there were other mistakes, but they still should have won that game had it not been for Dan making very poor decisions in critical moments. A few that stand out: Up 2 scores and not taking the FG to go up 3 scores while in the 2nd half of a game where you defense has held the opponents offense in check most the game. Late in a game with a chance to tie while your opponent has all the momentum, electing to again pass on the FG to go for it on 4th down. Calling a run play with 3 timeouts and putting him in a situation of TD or you are screwed and must kick an onside was incredibly stupid. Ive liked Dan overall since being there, but this game and Dallas game are two prime examples where his stubbornness got the better of him and he made less optimal decisions that directly led to losing the game with severe ramifications like the #1 seed with the Dallas game and a Super Bowl birth. The end of the Dallas game reminded me of the movie Tin Cup where he refused to take a drop and just kept hitting in the water...the NFCCG had a similar vibe when it came to making pivotal decisions. Its great to be aggressive, its whole other thing to be stupid. In Dallas he was stupid...in SF he was even more stupid as there was so much more on the line.

There is nothing cautious about McD, he is one of the most aggressive coaches in the NFL. This idea he is cautious is a myth that started over the fact he had a defensive background when he was hired and then not having much to work with on offense his first couple seasons.

The only analytics that matter are Wins and Losses. The bottom line, Dorseys last 6 games the offense averaged a pathetic 20 PPG and went 2-4 (and were lucky to not be 0-6). Brady's first 6 games the offense averaged 8 more PPG and the team was 5-1 and went on to win out and both win the division and the #2 seed. Dorsey was an issue, there is no spin that can be made that suggests he was not a big part of the problem. Worse yet, Dorsey's "analytics" were heavily skewed by 3 games against bad defenses week 2, week 3, and week 4. The rest of the season Dorsey and the offense stunk and had major issues. Not to mention the next decision the Bills make that you like will also be the first one you have ever liked.

He earned the job IMHO. Doesn't mean he has nothing to prove, because he still has a lot to prove. But he took someone else's offense and did enough with that to help this team go from 11th place and out of the playoffs to division winner and #2 seed. Unfortunately for Joe, he got the job in a season where the coaching staff as a whole is on a hot seat.

Not an apples to apples comparison. The last time Frazer was the DC against KC in the playoffs the defense gave up 42 points, including 17 points in the final 2 min of the game and OT. This year the defense was missing a lot and still amongst the league leaders in sacks, interceptions, takeaways, and point differential and held KC in the playoffs to 27 points including holding KC to no points the final 2 KC drives before Buffalo missed both the go ahead TD followed by the missed game tying FG try. And this defense fielded guys off the street at LB against a team who makes a living attacking LB's offensively. And even then, if not for Dawkins stepping on Allens foot on the 2nd and 9 play, we go up 4 and might have won the game. Not to mention the Shefield dropps, Diggs monster drop, etc. So...not the same result of watching a Frazier led D crap the bed in the post season IMHO.

Good convo...very much enjoying the discussion. But I gotta ask, what history does Shannahan have of elevating QB's? I just don't get this myth about him. Ryan had equivalent seasons to his MVP year without Kyle who had nothing to do with Ryans development or career success. Schaub earned the starting job before Kyle was the OC and it was Kubiak who got all the praise and credit for Schaub and his development that started before Kyle was OC and remained after Kyle left. Kyle was a bust in Washington and Cleveland before landing an easy gig with a top 10, probably top 5 QB at the time in Ryan with a loaded offense where he was for only 2 seasons before moving on to SF. Rodgers won an MVP with Hackett, I think we can agree that it doesn't mean Hacketts system makes all QB's look good. Since becoming HC in 2017 in SF the QB position has been a disaster and seen as the sole reason they don't have multiple SB titles right now. They passed up drafting Mahomes, Watson, Lamar to roll with guys like Nick Mullens and CJ Bethard. They passed up signing Tom Brady, Geno Smith (multiple times) or trading for Stafford all to keep Jimmy G who was hurt every one of his 6 years in SF but one. The only QB they took a swing on was Lance who they spent 3 first round picks on and Kyle couldn't develop him enough to even compete with Mr. Irrelevant Purdy. He has done such a bad job finding QB talent in 7 years in SF, that people actually said Sam Darnold was the most talented one he has had since arriving in SF and could win the starting job over Trey and Purdy this year. Shannahan gets way way way too much credit for "Schaub and Ryan" and some how gets a pass on all the failures he has had at QB at every other stop, especially SF. And while it's fair to say those parts of the last 2 games were not Purdy's best, he still led comebacks in two huge playoff games on the biggest stage that led his team to the Super Bowl. Something 30 other QB's didn't do. And honestly, if people are gonna do that with Purdy and say "well he wasn't very good in parts of 2 games" that he won, then that needs to be done with every QB because all of them had parts of games or whole games where they didn't play well. For me, I just feel like if Purdy had been a first round pick and was exactly the same person he is now, they would be saying he is the next best thing. But because he was the last pick in the draft, people are saying it must be Shannahans system that "makes all QB's look good"...except of course for every SF QB that has stepped on the field since 2017 not named Purdy.

Wow @whorlnutI cant even imagine, my congolences, thoughts, and prayers go out to you and your family during this tough time. She will live forever within you and your families hearts.

Thanks for reply bud...I get you are not sold on Purdy yet, which is totally fair...but comparing him to "Prime Jimmy G" and claiming Jimmy G looked like a franchise QB is puzzling to me and I have no idea where you are getting that from. For example, when was "Prime Jimmy G" an MVP candidate avg 9.6 ypa, leading the NFL in passer rating, QBR, and leading or top 5 in many other passing categories? "Prime Jimmy G" once won a playoff game throwing like 3 passes because Kyle didn't want him touching the ball. Honestly Jimmy G never looked like a franchise QB and never approached the level of play Purdy has, never reached 4000 yards his best season he had 27 TD's. Jimmy G in his best season as a pro was a game manager, Purdy in his first full season is an MVP finalist. The Niners were undefeated under Purdy last year and averaged 11 PPG more than they did with Jimmy G. The offense substantially benefited from the significant improvement Purdy brought to pocket awareness, pocket movement, and poise over Jimmy G who has some of the worst pocket awareness and movement amongst starters in the NFL. Kittle even became a real weapon again under Purdy where he had to be an extra blocker more often under Jimmy G to try and buy him more time because he needed the help. Don't get your points on Schaub or Ryan either. One I am pretty sure you never saw prime Matt Schaub play because that was before when you told you me you started watching the NFL. He was a pretty good QB, and he showed that potential the year before Kyle became OC and continued that level play when Kyle left shortly after. Schaub's biggest issue post Kyle was he had some seasons where he missed chunks of games from injuries, but he was still mostly the same QB with and without Kyle when he was healthy. And Ryan was very good before Kyle and remained very good after Kyle who was just there 2 seasons. In fact, Ryan practically replicated his MVP season in 2018 two years after Kyle left Atlanta. So to credit Kyle with Ryans success is just not accurate. Truth is, Shannahan first place to find and develop a QB was SF and he flamed out on every QB in SF before Purdy, including Jimmy G and a kid they invested 3 first round picks into. They paid Jimmy G as if he was a franchise QB just to see him be more of a liability and a mediocre game manager never to break 4000 yards. His poor pocket awareness and movement are probably a big reason why he struggled to stay healthy too leaving him only breaking 3000 yards even as a passer just twice in his career. Its too early to know how Purdy's career finishes...but his first season and a half has been so much better than what Jimmy G was for 6 seasons in SF and really is probably the only true QB success story you can fully attribute to Shannahan.

I get that’s where you’re coming from, that seems to be the stance of most people critical of him. But…To be fair, 2 of those guys are among the best, if not the best at their positions and could be in the HOF when their careers end and the other is maybe the most dynamic WR in the NFL. And all 3 are major parts of the SF offense and game plan. Most QBs are gonna struggle in that scenario. Also, in one of those games, despite missing those guys Purdy led a game winning drive that their rookie kicker missed the game winning FG. And Purdy had still not even played a full season yet too. Stroud as a sensational rookie had some bad games too. People forget how young Purdy still is. To expect essentially a rookie in terms of games played to be great still in his first games without the Niners 3 best players around him is asking more of him than some of the other guys.

For me, when the Bills aren’t in it or not a fan of the teams, just make it about friends and good times more than football

@GunnerBillcurious, now after leading his team back from a 7 point deficit in the 4th quarter and pouring rain last week and leading his team back from a 17 point deficit this week to make the SB, has your view of Purdy improved even a little?

Why? I don’t get some of you here. It’s the biggest football game of the year. You got Mahomes chasing greatness. You got Mr Irrelevant trying to silence the doubters and beat the odds. And you got Super Bowl parties with friends and gambling. Sounds like a pretty good time to me.

Purdy. What a story he will be