Alphadawg7

They will hate this contract in 2 years. He ain't it.

Im not suggesting to copy the Chiefs, I am saying over investing at WR has not been a wise investment for anyone in terms SB Success. And we have invested more premium assets in the last 3 years in the offense than the defense.

OJ - He killed on the field...and then off the field too Kelvin Benjamin - What a fat POS this guy was..so fat and lazy he tried to become a TE rather than not be a fat POS Trent Edwards - Can't respect playing like a coward Ralph Wilson - Refusing to pay and have a GM, being cheap, and not taking this team seriously and putting us through 17 years of a tragic comedy was the worst. Honorable Mention - Buddy Nix, the high-motor DE's, Zay Jones, Vontae Davis, Nathan Peterman, Nathanial Hackett, and Kyle Orton

2018 though, come on, we were in full cap shedding mode. People give Beane way too much flack for the early years where it was much less about the rebuild and more about the tear down. Beane wasn't rebuilding in 2018, he was 100% focused on cleaning up the cap, this isn't even a question as he stated that over and over again. They were not looking to be big spenders. Even guys like Saffold were short term stop gaps not long-term commitments while we were still building the roster. Its not like quality OL just are readily available. And keep in mind, FA's need to WANT to sign with us and then CHOOSE us (caps to emphasize not yell), and it wasn't until probably 2021 did the Bills start to become more attractive to FA's. Disagree...when you have Stefon Diggs in his prime you do not need to do this. For 2 of Allens best 4 seasons he had a top 5 WR in Diggs (arguably top 3 for 2 of those) and the best slot WR in the NFL in Cole. They still had plenty of other solid to good players as well. They planned for Cole's departure by drafting Shakir and signing Crowder, who despite his injuries making his time here irrelevant, was a solid signing to hold the spot down until Shakir was ready. Instead, the injuries forced McKenzie up the pecking order. Beane has used 3 of his 5 first picks on receiving weapons for Josh the past 5 years. Show me another team that has used 3 of their last 5 picks on receivers in the NFL. You can't disregard Kincaid, he was drafted to receiver the ball, not do TE things. You comment that we have invested less is disingenuous IMHO because Beane also used FA to keep putting guys ready to play around Josh too...you want to say less because Beane hasn't used a bunch of day 2 or 3 picks on WR's, but he also didn't need to for the reasons I just stated. And the ones he did, hit like Davis and Shakir based on their draft slots. 2 years ago, all the rage here and in the media was that Josh needs a RUN game when Daboll left, he can't be asked to do it all. Diggs was Diggs, and Davis seemed ready to start full time after the offense played better with him taking snaps away from Sanders the 2nd half of 2021. This notion that our receiving weapons were under invested was not much of a thing until after 2022 when Davis struggled to deliver on expectations even though his season totals were not that bad. And Beane immediately addressed that issue by both trying to trade up for a WR and getting rebuffed and instead finding a trade up for Kincaid. When Davis proved to be the question mark, Beane didn't hesitate at all to not only use our first rounder, but trade up as well. I don't disagree here so much, I just think the D+ is a but harsh because the more recent investments in the DL have been good ones in guys like Floyd and Daquan. I mean that is a pretty small thing to ding him for, trading for some depth when we had some potential injury issues was no big deal. They traded for him because it was in season, and he knew the defense. What they gave up was pretty meaningless too. The fact he was able top keep Hyde and Poyer her for the prime of their careers, even when it seemed like that wouldn't happen, should grossly outweigh this. Not to mention, he got maybe the best S prospect in this years draft too.

I get your view, but again, based on Diggs extension and then restructure I think it’s clear the plan had not been to be replacing both Diggs and Davis this year. So I think that expedited the transition to youth and the amount of change in one season when the team and Beane decided moving on from Diggs now and getting back a 2nd for this next year was what was best for the Bills right now. And then his is one season in which we were able to shed aging cap choking deals and players, it turned out to be an ideal season to do so given we are armed heavily next year in both draft capital and cap space to make what event big splash moves necessary to keep pushing this team forward. Plus, the list of Super Bowl winners don’t support your desire to over invest so heavily in receivers the way you described. You win the post season in the trenches, KC wouldn’t have even reached the Super Bowl if not for Chris Jones, and then he went out and won the Super Bowl for them too. And that is the same back to back SB team that has underwhelming weapons for 2 years. I think Beanes bigger issue is he hasn’t found that difference maker that can get to Mahomes and over spent on Von (even though he was playing at a high level before getting hurt) because they felt he was a guy to get over the hump. And it might of worked had he not gotten hurt, and that’s the risk with a 32 year old player your sign. 2023 was a bit of bad luck…we win that KC game if we aren’t missing all our linebackers and then who knows what happens after that.

This is just not true through. You may feel that way, but it’s factually wrong. In the last 5 drafts, Beane has used our first round pick in a weapon for Josh THREE times. In the last 3 drafts he has used 4 of our first 6 picks on help for Josh - Cook, Kincaid, O’Cyrus, Keon of which all that have played have looked like great picks. Not to mention using picks on guys like Brown, Shakir, etc as in these past 3 years that are now looking like great picks to go along with more guys we added this year that are promising at Center and RB. None of this factors in the FA moves he’s made. He went out and got guys like Cole who was the best slot WR in the league while here, quality vets like John Brown and Sanders and drafted Davis, who for all his faults still put up solid stats here and exceeded his draft value. The reality is that the group around Allen is young because Diggs was traded probably a year or too sooner than was planned 2 years ago or even last year. But just because that’s the case doesn’t rewrite history into a falsehood that Beane hasn’t been spending premium assets to get Josh more help. And quite frankly, there aren’t a lot of teams who have 4 players who have played 2 years or leas as promising as Kincaid, Keon, Shakir, and Cook is. Most teams wish they had a young nucleus like this. And while this team lacks a proven elite go to target, it makes up for right now with quality of depth. And the best part is that if this group proves to be lacking, Beane has a bunch of extra premium picks and a ton of cap room next year to make moves to go get even more help.

OL I would give a solid B in FA. WR - IMO you didn’t grade him on who he took, but on volume and I don’t think that is a correct way to grade his drafting. He hit on 2 day 3 picks with starters, just because we had guys like Diggs, Cole, Brown, Sanders in FA is why we didn’t spend more draft capital there. I would give him a B as he has done well when he’s drafted the position. DL - I think you’re being a little harsh on DL, but I’m not too far off. I’d give him a B on drafting as he’s gotten good returns on all his main picks but one, which he still traded to recoup a little value back. I think I would lean more C or C- on FA. Corner - I think you are over weighing one pick and whose story still isn’t finished in Elam. Beane has had a very good track record of finding value at the corner position. This is a B for me as I’m not going to kill him on Elam until I see how Elam does this camp and preseason. And he is off to a good start, but also it’s early. And the Rasul acquisition and retaining him this year I think elevates his FA a B as well. Safety - Again, I find D harsh, he hasn’t had to go to FA to find anything but backups prior to this year. To give him a D for a couple guys that backed up Poyer and Hyde feels harsh. And we don’t yet know bow well they will play this year if either of them start (Hyde might also still come back and Bishop is competing to start).

I wasn’t prepared to totally write him off after the struggles began last year, I was willing to see if he could bounce back this year. But to see the struggles showing up again this early makes me concerned. I mean he’s a kicker, there is no long ramp up to get to midseason form, he shouldn’t still have the shanks. The good news is that it’s easy to replace a kicker on short notice, not like they have to his complex playbook to learn. So I would bet money that if he’s still missing kicks in preseason that we will have someone else brought in to push for his job before week 1 gets here.

Ok, thats fair, I was talking with someone else originally so I didn't connect that context in your reply, I get it now. I also didn't say they didn't win...I asked how many playoff games did they win and how the highest priced WR's aren't a guarantee for a Super Bowl let alone a prerequisite. I still disagree with your application given its missing 2 of our offensive young and important players in Kincaid (who isn't being counted as he is a TE and Keon because he just signed his contract today so I can't see how they can have his salary in there already) and arguably our best WR is Shakir who is playing on a 5th round rookie contract that is not reflective of his talent. Then you have Claypool playing on a small prove it deal not reflective of is talent, but fairly reflective of how his immaturity sank his stock. So I don't think you can conclude low AAV always is indicative of less talent. Just like you wouldn't say the Bengals had weak or mediocre talent when both Chase and Higgins were on rookie deals.

We can agree to disagree...but what does your opinion that McD needs to blame himself have to do with the how straight forward Beane has been in his press conferences and interviews? Nor does that translate into Beane and McD are liars.

Now you have really done it introducing context, logic, and commonsense. How dare you

Geezus...you can't be serious. Because McD didn't publicly throw someone under the bus and kept it in house...in other words not disclosing...that makes him dishonest? You know the difference between PRIVATE and LYING is right? Because your actual accusation is that this regime has not been truthful their entire time here. And this one silly statement here does not at all change the fact that Beane is always very open about his thinking, plans, and intentions.

Wait...hold on...Are you declaring Bills talent rankings based on the total of what the receivers make now? LMAO. And you are using numbers that don't inlclude Keon's contract too lol. A team with multiple young players on rookie contracts too. And also again you are not factoring in TE's either. At least now we know what Beane should do with the extra cap space from Tre...give the WR's a raise so it improves our Super Bowl odds lol This is too out there to address. I am just gonna move on lol.

Love this...nothing left to do now but focus on football and his connection with Allen.

Agree, and Davis is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Now, he has to demonstrate he can replicate that in the NFL...but if Davis shows those good hands here and Cook keeps dropping would be gimme TD's (believe he had 4 dropped TD's), then Davis may cut more into his reps earlier than expected.

Thanks Happy for finding and posting all these. Another reason why over reaction yesterday was premature. I think it is important that people be a bit more patient this year, good or bad, because there will certainly be some ups and downs as there is a lot to adjust too on both sides of the ball. I think people forget we technically have 2 new Coordinators at OC and DC, so new language and systems are being installed, especially on offense. We have a lot of personnel changes on both sides of the ball. Allen reportedly made some tweaks to his throwing motion he is working into his game. Obviously, the only WR Allen has any timing and rapport with was Shakir, so he needs to build that with Keon, Samuel, and the other guys too. There is a lot of youth between rookies and young players looking to compete for big roles this season too.

2 things: You do not actually know that. That is your "offseason on paper" personal opinion and grade. The reality is that nobody knows how good or bad the group will perform as they have never taken a snap together on the field. Also, KC has not had a good WR room the last 2 years and is the reigning back to back SB Champs. More than WR's catch the ball...to isolate only the WR room about the Bills is being disingenuous in assessing the weapons as a whole. Allens weapons are not only the WR room, but Kincaid (and still has Knox too) and our RB's saw 80 targets last year and could rise to 100 this year given both Davis and Ty behind Cook are very good receivers out of the back field too. Im not going to debate whether they are bottom 5 or not...because I do not know how good or bad this group is until we see them on the field. I don't care about paper rankings in the offseason, they are as meaningless as post draft grades before rookies ever take a snap. I do know that Shakir had a mini-breakout last year, Cook broke out, and Kincaid had a great rookie year. We have added some solid vets who have never played with a QB nearly as good as Allen around the youth. One of those guys, Claypool, is still young with a lot of talent if he can learn how to play the game the right way and work his way on to the team. Point is...people running around here making a fuss over the fact guys like Isabella, KJ, and Shavers getting reps in OTA's is a waste of energy. The WR room is an open competition and its only the first mandatory OTA's, of course they are going to give guys a look because the pecking order is fluid after Keon, Shakir, and Samuel and once real camp begins the guys at the bottom trying to beat the odds will get less and less reps.

Huh? Beane is literally known as the most direct and forthright GM with the media in the entire NFL and its why he is such a sought after guest, he gives real insight into how he thinks as a GM and gives good informative answers. I can't remember any GM in history who has been as upfront and straight forward with his plans, approach, etc ever. McD and Beane are maybe the most honest combo of a HC/GM in the league. Now McD as HC can't be as forthcoming as Beane because he gets asked a lot more sensitive questions that needs to stay in house, but he also doesn't come out and BS people with a bunch of lies either.

Did you really just compare some bottom of the depth chart guys getting some snaps in OTA's with Shavers and Isabella to Tyreek Hill? LOL And Hill went to 2 SB's BEFORE he was paid $30M dollars in which he has not won a playoff game since being paid that, which includes a 5 game losing streak weeks 12-17 in 2022 with Tua until a 3rd string rookie QB saved them from missing the playoffs by breaking the losing streak week 18. It also includes both Tua and Hill being in the MVP convo much of 2023 and holding a 4 game divisional lead with 5 games left and still not winning the division and barely making playoffs. It includes only 2 wins in 2 seasons against teams with a .500 record. So point is...big expensive WR's don't guaranteed you anything.

Like I said he is a good back, and I like Cook, but the question was is he top 5 right now...and he isn't better than OJ, Thurman, McCoy, Lynch, Freddie, Henry, at least not yet. And honestly, it will be hard to unseat those guys, all of them could do it all where Cook is more a finesse RB than a bell cow type player. He is going to put up stats in a high octane offense, and that will drive his price tag up as a FA. But if he went to a team who didn't have Josh Allen, had a mediocre OL, will he still put those stats up? Probably not, he just isn't that stud RB even if he does compile enough stats here to appear so. He gets most of his yards running through huge gaps, he isn't facing 8 man boxes designed to stop him or the run game. They have to worry about Allens arm and his legs too. So...when his contract is up, and his stats or getting him $8M a year or more level attention in FA, do I think the Bills will pay that? I don't personally think so especially since I think someone like Davis has more potential to be more of a bell cow RB than Cook as he may be an even better receiver than Cook, explodes through the line with great acceleration and runs with tenacity too. Now Davis still needs to show that can translate to the NFL, so no guarantees...but if Davis does live up to his potential, are you going to still pay Cook a sizable contract or let him walk and roll with Davis on a rookie deal 2 more years and then find someone in FA or draft to compliment him? I think if I had to guess today, if Cook continues to compile stats that come FA time its more likely he gets a better deal in FA than we should pay. And its less a knock on Cook, and more the reality of the RB position today as large investments into RB contracts have more often than not proven to be a hindrance than a wise investment.

No offense bud, but no it doesn’t. Thats just feels like looking for confirmation bias to prove preexisting concerns. One, Shakir got hurt and left the field for good, so that alone opened up an opportunity for Isabella. Second, Hamler has long been a guy who had potential to compete for the speed role that everyone just assumes is MVS locked in job, which is crazy because MVS struggles at doing the only thing his job most importantly requires which is catching the ball. By no means are guys outside Keon, Shakir, and Samuel locked into a pretty solid WR position. The rest are all new here or spent their time last year on PS for the most part. They are all competing, that’s why it’s called a competition. And right now, when reps matter the least is when you start giving some of the guys further down the depth chart some looks because come camp those reps are gonna go to the guys higher on the pecking order. I mean this is how mandatory OTA’s go every year and it’s why every year this board falls in love with some WR whose never gonna make the final 53 because this is when they get the most meaningful reps. And as far as struggles…it’s just June. Allen is deploying tweeks to his throwing motion and was off, it’s a new offense for everyone, lots of new players who need time to get timing in sync with Allen, and guys who aren’t going to make the roaster getting snaps and making mistakes like Shavers.

It’s also just June with everyone learning a new offense, getting first reps with Allen, and Allen working on using the tweeks he made to his throwing motion in live practices. How many playoff games did those teams win last year combined? Hint: Less than Bills and rhymes with gyro.

Cook definitely is not, and to be honest, I think Ray Davis is going to take his job at some point because I’m doubtful he gets a second contract here. It’s just the nature of the position now where unless you’re a true bell cow RB it’s really hard to pay them a 2nd contract. And Cook is not that lead bell cow guy, he’s good but doesn’t excel at anything particular and drops too many passes for a guy whose best trait coming out was as a receiving weapon.

lmao

Keon was a first rounder...we traded back. NE was trying to trade ahead of us to get him in the first too. Technicality of us moving back 1 made him a 2nd. Again, there is nothing to support your Pegula is cheap theory. You wanting to handle WR differently isnt proof of that