Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Just because I love being the devil's advocate... How many good years did Trent have again? Zero. It's funny but at least JP will walk away with one above average season.
Exactly...here is the best part about Trentative Christ...he didnt even have a great season in college...he hasnt had a great season at any level since High School. During that run, he has ONE, JUST ONE 300 yard game since HIGH SCHOOL!!! He has never moved the ball...
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I don't want to get a QB who might be arguably better than Trent Edwards, I want a star QB. There's no reason burning more picks for another placeholder.
We dont need a "star" QB...last year we were 7-9 and in 8 of our nine losses we right there in the game DESPITE very poor QB play from both JP and Trent in those losses. This team is talented enough to win with a solid QB, doesnt have to be a star, just someone who can move the ball with all these weapons.
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We need to huddle up more. The only team the no huddle is putting pressure on is the Bills.
For the Bills' offense, it was more of the same - no touchdowns, no sustained drives and little yardage, or much like it's been throughout a preseason in which a newly installed no-huddle scheme has mostly been a no-go.
''Maybe they need to huddle up a little more,'' Farrior joked.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/...cast_recap.html
We NEEEEED a QB who is capable of running a no huddle. I cant say this enough, Trent does NOT read defenses or coverages very well and he may even be worse at it then JP Suckman at it. Until we can get a confident QB capable of making the right adjustments and reads, the no huddle is going to fall flat.
If Quinn gets the nod in Cle, in ALL HONESTY we should be looking at a possible trade at this point. Tavaris Jackson or Derek Anderson right now would be a an upgrade. I would call for Fitz, but if the coaches are still interested in a so called backup, then it makes we wonder how much confidence they have Fitz...then again, their QB interest may be for someone to compete as the starter and they are acting like they are looking for a back up...
Right now, our offense under Trents guidance looks downright stale...
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I wonder how many more new excuses will surface to mask how bad Trentative Checkwards is playing...
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Not going to defend TE here. I've got many concerns as well.
What I'd be interested in trying to quantify if possible, is what other improvements those teams made personnel-wise in the second seasons of the QBs mentioned.
None of this stuff happens in a vacuum as you are well aware given your experience in the game.
GO BILLS!!!
Totally agree that nothing happens in a Vaccum...but for example Payton took over a team that was 3-13 and in his second season he had them in the playoffs. Coming from a football analyast point of view, there is by far enough talent on our current roster and last years roster for us to be in the playoffs.
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Yep, sounds pretty familiar.
If you look at Bill Belichick's first 3 years in Cleveland 18 years ago, toss aside Jauron's first 5+ years of head coaching, and compare Jauron's last 3 years to Belichick's first 3 years, then Jauron has a higher winning percentage by exactly 1 more game than Belichick did. Thus, by this twisty pretzel logic Jauron is as good a coach as Belichick!
hahahahaha, awesome...
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Seriously , if you can't do a determination by games played, its because you refuse to admit Trent Edwards is, or could be a good QB one day. If you can't do a calculation using simple math you probably need to go back to junior high. Do you hear anyone else on this board jumping to your defense because I can guarantee you if someone thought you were right, they would. TE only has 23 games played, anyone with a brain would know to do a fair comparison we really should keep the comparison equal in games, TE doesn't have two full seasons, can you get that through your thick skull.
TE's first 23 games starts, Peyton's first 23 game starts, Eli's first 23 games starts, its not rocket science.
Get a brain buddy
Hey Dog...just an FYI: Statistically and in wins and losses, Derek Anderson detstroys Trent Edwards in their first 23 games played...do you think Derek Anderson is a superior QB because the stats say so.
Secondly, you are a complete moron if you cant see that the QB's in your post that you and Bandit are talking about SERIOUSLY IMPROVED their respective teams in their second seasons. Trentative has never at any moment done anything to suggest he could be as good as either Mannings, Brady, etc that you used in your example. I want you to read this next line carefully....He has ONE, JUST ONE, 300 yard game since HIGH SCHOOL and it was early in college. He has never been at any point in college or NFL a "take over the game" QB...NEVER, not even in College.
Brady, both Mannings, etc. that you mentioned not only are those types of QB's but they showed that several times early in their careers. Trents BEST game as a pro is a 270 yard game with ONE measly TD agaisnt one of the worst D's in the league. In fact, he has only thrown for more than 1 TD 3 times in his career...How you can compare that start to what these other QB's did in their first year is so ABSURD that I literally laugh my ass off at these posts.
So, since this is an excuse thread, here is the newest excuse courtesy of you to add to the list:
"Its the team, not Trent, because Trent is so obviously good because if we manipulate the win loss data we can make it look like he has been as good as some of the best QB's in football during his first 23 games."
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OMG, seriously?
What I am saying, in plain English, that I'm sure you'll find a way to misunderstand, misinterperet, or finagle to support your point, is this: in season two, the QBs you brought up took their teams to the playoffs and won 11+ games. If you watched them play, which by your posts I highly doubt, it is abundantly clear that each displayed a level of play far exceeding that of Trent Edwards. The statistics also support this, as does the team's overall record during season two.
Furthermore, I showed you that each QB to whom you compared Trent--except for Peyton Manning--started the same or fewer games their rookie seasons...and each of them was/is CLEARLY better than Trent during season 2. This is not a debatable point, which I'm 100% certain is why you won't respond to it. Each time I show you the reality of the comparison YOU made, you just ignore it.
The only way you can find to get around the truth is to chop Peyton Manning's 2nd season in half (a season in which his team went 13-3), tack on his rookie year in which he played for a team that went 1-15 the season before he arrived, and say that Edwards has a better record as a starter than Manning through 23 games. And somehow, some way, dispite all of the logical, accurate, and comparitive statistics, you still feel like that is a barometer to compare the two QBs.
Forgive me if I think you're nuts.
I'm done here.
Great post...Magox does the same thing Bandit...no matter what logical and factual data you provide they find some way to TRY and manipulate the data to elevate the lousy play of Trentative...they go so far that it literally doesnt even make sense...and often they just make up data outright...
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Why the heck wouldn't the Bills be interested ?
He's a solid NFL QB with tons of potential. In my opinions he is 100x better than Fitz as a backup and could push/replace Trent if he struggles this year or gets injured. This is a make or break year for the coaching staff, they are going to want to be confident in the backup QB given the fact that most starting QBs do not stay healthy for all 16 games.
I think Buffalo would be absolutely crazy not to atleast monitor the situation and see what it would cost to get him.
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something fishy about this poster, I can't quite put a paw on it
If you are implying I would waste my time with two logins then you are dumber than your posts...I would actually feel sorry for someone who would have to waste time creating multiple logins to make a point an a freaking message board...
But nice try Magox...
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The Trent apologists hate this thread but I love it. Props to who ever coined the term "Trent apologists". LOVE IT.
Maybe I am a rare fan that actually hopes that Trent does well but can still objectively say that he hasn't done much of anything against a team with a winning record and we know the issues with the 3 - 4 defense.
All in good fun, let's summarize and add:
1) JP sucks - No longer on the team people. Give it up!
2) Trent has a winning record - But has never beat a team that ended the year with a winning record
3) Trent is god, everyone else sucks
4) If Trent sucks this year it's because the fans were objective and critical of his mistakes and down right mean
5) Trent has a great completion percentage - Not coincidentally our RB tandem lead the league in receptions. Can you say checkdown?
6) Comparing the TEAMS, not Trents, wins against sub .500 teams and holding it up against real QBs like Manning, Brady, Kelly, and Manning that have big time NFL arms
7) It's only preseason!!! - Pay no attention to the melt down after week 6 last year!!!!
8) It's the conucussion - Trent himself said this was not a factor
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Just for the sake of historical accuracy, it's probably really difficult to get to 3,000 yds with 19:14 TD:INT, and QB rating of 85 while only having 4 good games. I mean, Losman did finish 11th in the league in TDs, 13th in yards, 9th in completion percentage, 11th in QB rating, and tied for 4th in completions of over 40 yards; all while finishing 23rd in the league in attempts per game.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1
Again, I'm not a big JP backer (as a QB anyway, as a person I think he's a great guy), but if Edwards gets anywhere near those numbers this season I'll be thrilled, and I think you would be as well.
If Edwards had that season last year we make the playoffs...
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Forget the mistake, who cares? We've all done something similar...but let's look at the point you're trying to make here, dog. Your point is in regard to wins early on in a QBs career. If you want to compare Trent to the Mannings, Kelly, Montana, etc., here's a good way to start:
- Peyton's team went 13-3 and scored a 1st round playoff bye in his 2nd season
- Eli's team went 11-5 and made the playoffs in his 2nd season
- Joe Montana's team went 11-5 and won the Superbowl in his 2nd season
- Kelly is one that I'll give you as far as 2nd season struggles, he did take a while to settle in, but he at least looked the part of a franchise QB. Edwards, to me, looks confused and incapable (now, of course, I have to point out for the idiot crew--not implying you're part of it--that I'm neither a Trent nor a JP fan, I don't think either of them are good). But I digress...Buffalo went 12-4 in Kelly's 3rd season (1988) and scored a playoff bye...can you honestly say you expect Edwards to lead Buffalo to a similar mark this year?
Relax dude. It's okay for people on this board to think Trent isn't very good. Calm down. It's a totally acceptable position to have, considering that the guy looks good against the bottom-feeders and awful against every half-way decent opponent. I want him to succeed, you want him to succeed; in fact I think it's safe to say any Bills fan wants him to succeed. But wanting him to be good and thinking he's capable of being a quality NFL QB are two different things. If people criticizing Edwards and calling him names bothers you, then you shouldn't be reading threads that discuss his play or his ability.
Oh and by the way, it's more than a little misguided to say that any members of a team's fan base--whether they share your opinion of a player or not--deserve a "crap product". I don't think Trent is very good, and I've been a season ticket holder for 22 years, so I can guarantee you I don't deserve a "crap product".
Fantastic post...
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Pathetic? I made a mistake and admitted as much, you can't seem to get one post off with contradicting yourself and sounding like a fool. Eli and Peyton Manning were the first two QB's I researched, I hardly call it scouring the net, but I'll bet if I did research every current starting QB in the league Trent Edwards game winning percentage is in the top 20% of the league when you compare the first 23 starts of their careers.
Another made up stat...keep em coming...
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You're absolutely right! Our team is completely loaded at all positions except QB! When we win it's despite of him, and when we lose it's because of him.
[/sarcasm]
Spoken by someone who hasnt even looked in to it...go look at all 6 divisional games, the SF and CLE games last year and tell how even a solid QB outing doesnt win us those games. You cant (and wont) because there is no logical argument against you could possibly make becuase the QB postion was so atrocious in those 8 games. EIGHT GAMES! Thats a lot of games when we already had 7 wins. Even if we win just 5 of those 8 we win the division and make the playoffs.
So until you actually go look it up, quit putting your foot in your mouth
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It took Jim Kelly 32 starts to equal Trent Edwards win totals at 14 wins with 23 starts. I made some mistakes with my previous information, but my point was still made,.Trent Edwards is off to a very good start in my opinion, especially when you consider the supporting cast and coaching staff.
Man, you and Magox should date...
First you already tried throwing all these stats to propt up Trent about Payton, Eli and Brady and were way off...there wins and losses mask the MASSIVE improvements their teams made in their SECOND seasons for one...a clever way to bail Trent out (alla Magox)....
Now you are scouring the net to find some other great QB who started slow (in wins/losses) in hopes to proving some point about Trent. I mean its pathetic really.
Wins and Losses are not even remotely close as a usable evaluation of a QB and anoyone who has ever played a down fo real football knows that. Trent Dilfer is a SB winning QB...whats your evaluation of him?
And a BIG FYI for you: For every Jim Kelly example you just gave where a QB wasnt winning early on, there are about 40 other Akili Smiths, Rick Mirers, etc that started off slow and never put it together.
I just love how far some Trentative man crush fans will go to manipulate stats and statements to hide his poor performance. I actually find it quite entertaining and hilarious...
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Now do you get it?
Followed by......
But, forget that, because....
Thanks for clearing that up.
Wow, you are really slow arent you. Its a team game, so if one AREA of the team struggles, another AREA of the team can bail us out. At the same time, various areas of the team can do enough to win just to see one area drag us down...
In many of our wins under Trentative, we won despite Trentative not having a good outing. In many of our losses under him we lost becuase the rest of the team did enough for us to win if they would have had help from our QB...Very few times has Trentative gone out and had an actual good game. I can count Trentatives good games literally on a single hand...I need both hands and feet to count his bad games (includes both wins and losses).
In fact, Trentative has yet to go out and carry this team to a win when it needed it. Good QB's are capable of that. His best game as a pro was just a 270+ yard outing with a single TD and it was against one of the worst D's in the league.
My issue to is that he didnt even have a real productive College career either. He has never been capable of taking the reigns and winning us the game. At least not yet.
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Now that is funny
The crusade continues
Nice to see you back Magoz making posts that offer nothing to the discussion other than your obvious outright man crush on Trentative and denial he has ever strggled in a single game...
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So you are saying if Trent was just average, we would have gone 15-1 last year? Yikes! Quit mixing Everclear with your Koolaid!
And just for the record...in all 6 divisional games our combined QB play was less than horrible. And we could have won all 6 still. The SF and CLE games were both literally winnable all the way down to the final drives, and both QB's were below horrible in those games.
They werent even close to average performances, yet we were in position to still win all the way to the end. So how on Earth can you even remotely deny that a capable QB who had at least a solid outing wouldnt have won us those games?
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I'm beginning to believe that Trent banged your sister or mom or maybe even both of them together, at the same time.
Im beginning to think you have had a romantic encounter with him and are blinded by your man love for him...
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So you are saying if Trent was just average, we would have gone 15-1 last year? Yikes! Quit mixing Everclear with your Koolaid!
I said 8 "WINNABLE" games...not 8 wins...but I guarantee we would have made the playoffs...and if you cant see that you dont watch the games
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I can say the same things about the games TE lost, he didn't lose those games the players around him and coaching staff did and the reality is some of your comments don't even make any sense.
You tell me how TE can have a winning record yet lose more games then he won, then even go on and call your comment fact.
Apparently your intellect doesnt allow you to understand the statement, so let me explain...
In Trents wins, he did very little to help us win in a LOT of those wins. We literally won INSPITE of Trents below average performance thanks to the running game, D, and ST. He has only had a handful of good outings. Even in our 4-0 start last year he had two bad games.
In Trents losses, in almost every single loss we were in the game throughout the WHOLE game and almost every game was winnable. And almost in every loss Trent had below average or outright horrible game.
Therefore, Trentative actually LOSES us more games than he goes out and WINS for us. But you see, you are only capable of seeing Trent as the winner and loser in a game, when in reality its a team game. But the problem is, in our mass majority of our losses, the rest of our team keeps us in the game while Trent sinks us.
For instance, even just average QB play gets us all 4 divisional wins that Trent started and a win against CLE and SF. Thats 6 more wins with just at least average play. Add in the two JP divisional games and we could have amassed 8 more wins last year! YES EIGHT WINNABLE GAMES last year we lost becuase our QB (both loserman and Trentative) couldnt get it done on the field...
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While Trent does have a winning record, it is against the WORST Teams in the league. How many games has Trent won against teams with winning records?
Nice...
I also find it hilarious that his so called winning record is barely over .500 (I think by just one game in fact) which is never going to equal a playoff berth in the AFC and yet these people hold it up as if he has some kind of great record.
The truth about his so called record is that a lot of those wins came inspite or Trents struggles. He didnt win those games, our team won them for him.
The reality is this: Trent has lost us more games than he has won for us. And thats just fact...
Hope a switch goes off this year, I really do, but he is showing a lot of the same flaws still he has always had...
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To me the biggest 'Edwards' issue is the Bill Walsh endorsement. Take that away and he's another Joe average dud in a long line of "mediocre at best" QB's. But Walsh endorsed him as a heluva a quarterback which has us all yearning to believe there is something there.
Glad you mentioned that...
The Bill Walsh endorsement frequently gets thrown in as if Walsh was never wrong. He once called JJ Stokes the next Jerry Rice. What exactly did he do other than have a journeyman WR career?
Bill Walsh is a legend and one of the best ever, but it doesnt mean he was never wrong. People act like Christ himself came down and endorsed Trent.
The fact remains, Trent was AVERAGE in college, has only ONE 300 yard game since HIGH SCHOOL, and has never lived up to his potential in college or the NFL yet...
FYI: Bill Walsh also very high on Rick Mirer and Jim Drunkenmiller...you casual fans probably dont even know who Jim Drunkenmiller is and may not even remember Rick Mirer, thats how off he was on them amongst many others. And I mean no disrespect to Walsh, he was amazing, but no one is always right.
How is that Jason Peters trade looking now?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Absoulutely! Our O Line WILL be better than it was eventually. My guess is that you never played football...The O Line takes the longest to gel, it doesnt happen over night and we have some rookies too...We without a doubt have more talent on our O Line now than we did last year, they just arent together yet. Its a coesive unit.