Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Which is what he had in St Louis too. In NY, he looked pedestrian.
His QB rating in NY was not bad and he was 5-3 before the pressure to start Eli got to them...I wouldnt call his time there a bust. In fact, if they keep Warner at QB that year they might have made the playoffs, but there was so much pressure to start Eli after all they gave up to get him, they went with youth instead and it wasnt because Warner was playing that bad. In fact, it was highly unpopular move by most analysts and viewed at the time as a mistake.
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Why do we have to include last season as "dominant" when he was 5-6 as a starter? You can't pick and choose what you want to count. All of those games count, not just the ones where he got hot at the end.
But whatever, the point is, we have one guy (TD) who played 4 seasons, went to 2 Super bowls, was a league MVP, a Super Bowl MVP and was historically good ... then he got hurt and that was it. And he can't get in.
Now we have a guy who also has all that in his four best seasons but has 6 VERY mediocre seasons also. If I told you those were JP Losman's numbers you might believe me. But yet he somehow gets CREDIT for playing poorly just because he was not hurt? Or at best we are asked to ignore those six years? It's half his career.
Makes no sense to me.
I did say include the his whole season last year...I only meant Leinart started out as the starter, but once Kurt took over he was dominant. You cant look at the 5-6 record as a gauge of his performance...look at Brees this year, he didnt make the playoffs yet had one of the best seasons all time at QB. Are you saying Brees wasnt dominant this year? Or was it that the NO defense was so inept that they couldnt win enough games?
He was one of the best QB's in the league last year by far and had a great QB season regardless of how the Cardinals did as a franchise...
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I think it bears reviewing who the Bills provided on offense in 08 as opposed to 07. Essentially, Buffalo did nothing player wise on offense. James Hardy, a rookie and raw WR was the only significant addition. To make matters worse, a rookie OC who no less than 3 other franchises didn't think was capable of being an OC was promoted to the position.
Talk about a problem waiting to happen. If you think Edwards was going to be successful with an inept rookie OC and no new weapons off of that 07 season, you're crazy.
I'd really like to know why Edwards consistently failed against 3-4 defenses. Some of that is his fault, some parts youth in the league, with a lot of it a lack of preparation by this coaching staff.
To me these struggles are in large part due to his inability to progress through his reads fast enough to this point causing him to hold the ball too long and kind of makes him a statue at times in the pocket. This typically results in either a late throw to an open WR that is no longer open, immediate check down to the someone at or near the line of scrimmage, or he takes a sack/fumble he shouldnt have because he was indecisive.
Before the struggles he seemed to see the field better. But in the second half of the year, he consistently locked on to his targets which is a QB killer too...
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Gameday yes, but you should listen to some of his press conferences. His attitude and demeanor is what makes the difference.
Dont get me wrong, I like his demeanor and conferences...the problem is how well you do in a post game conference isnt going to win you games...its his on field decisions that affect the outcome of the games. He needs to elevate his gameday performance before I can consider him an upper echelon coach...doesnt mean he wont get there, I just dont think he is there yet while a lot of people have him as one of the measuring sticks for great coaches.
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OK, let me play devil's advocate here ... not saying he absolutely does not deserve it, but he's still borderline, IMO ... Basically, his whole candidacy would be based on FOUR seasons - 1999-2001 with STL and this season ... Granted, four GREAt seasons, but still just four ... in the 6 seasons in between he went 13-29 as a starter and threw 27 TDs and 30 INTs ... I gotta believe no HOF QB has EVER had a stretch like that.
Longevity DOES come into play. Look at Terrell Davis ... four amazing seasons, league MVP, and driving force behind two Super Bowl wins ... it's pretty much accepted he has no chance because he was not dominant for long enough. What's the difference? If anything, Davis was slowed only by injury. Warner actually played BADLY for a long stretch.
Not saying he is not a great player, and if you want to argue both of he and Davis should be in I would listen ... but that 6-year stretch is hard for me to ignore. Bad teams? Hell yes. But Archie Manning played on bad teams. Hell, Joe Ferguson played on bad teams and put up numbers like that. Does anyone think a Super Bowl and an MVP would have put Fergy in the HOF? I don't.
If he gets in, I would not be outraged, but I'd say TD needs to go in immediately also.
Understandable argument...You have to include last year though in with the dominant years...during the second half of the season he had better numbers than Brady...he had a tremndous season last year too once he filled in for Leinart.
He also had a winning record in NY before the pressure to put Eli in got the best of them that year even though the Giants were playing pretty good to that point...so it wasnt all bad. He also battled injuries at the end in St. Louis which contributed to his struggles too...
When he was good, he was dominant though...and now he has taken a doormant losing franchise to the Super Bowl...he turned the doormat Rams into Superbowl Champions from the very FIRST game he played there and never looked back...
Thats pretty impressive...
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Leinart seems to be a bit too Hollywood for his own good. I remember a Bill Parcells quote, shortly after he left Dallas, he was asked about Romo's potential and he said something to the effect of, "If he stays away from the Hollywood crap, he'll be good" and then a week later it was revealed Romo was dating Jessica Simpson.
hahahaha, yeah I remember that...classic.
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I hope it doesnt cost them but Tomlin will make at least one bonehead decision in this game
Thats what I have been saying all year...Tomlin gets a lot of credit because his team wins...but he makes quite a few mistakes, he just has a team talented enough to over come them.
In his defense, he had no HC experience before he came to Pitt, so doesnt mean he wont learn from them and be a lasting coach in this league, but he currently gets too much credit for Pitts success in my opinnion.
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like Ray Lewis? yes we do
Troy is out of the world...that was a sick play he just made on Flacco...crazy
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Kurt Warner in the hall of fame is a lock, regardless of the outcome of the Super Bowl.
As someone mentioned, it'll be interesting to see if he returns to Arizona next year. To me, at his age he seems to have lost some mobility (not that ever had much). He still has the accuracy and the arm but time isn't on his side and I can't see him wanting to go to another team, and having to learn a new system. He's really got it good in Arizona with his group of wide receivers.
Leinart hasn't gotten the job done when called upon, so there has to be some doubt whether he's the right man for the job. But I'm not sure if he's been given a fair amount of time to prove himself yet (too lazy to look up the stats)..
I felt he was a lock before today, but I continue to be surprised at how many times this topic comes up during AZ games on TV which is why I started this thread...I was curious if I was in the monority here if you guys felt the same.
As far as Leinart goes, seems I remember hearing he didnt have the best work ethic in the film room and stuff like that...
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That is an outrageous statement. Even if you are not factoring coaching, both of the lines would have to go ahead of QB...right?
Of course I agree line play needs to be there, but our O Line played better in the last half of the season, often giving Trent lots of time to throw, yet he couldnt get the ball down field. The O Line pass blocked and run blocked better in the second half of the season, good enough to win us games. Our QB play was terrible during that stretch.
And our Defense is not why we were not in the playoffs...The D Line took a blow with Schobel going down, and we NEED a MUCH better pass rush, I will give you that...but the unit still played well enough for us to win more games...I mean our offense didnt score for like 3 straight games or something like that...
JP and Trent both were terrrible during the second half of the season. Ask yourself this...if we have better play, lets say above average play from our QB position, do we win the Cle, SF, and Jets games? That is a clear yes, you have to admit, and that alone equals 3 more wins and puts us at 10 wins on the season. You can even speculate we likely at least split Mia and NE games...that equals playoffs...
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lol...do the math...if i posted as often as you, i'd have well over 10,000 posts by now
I was saying you post too much, was saying how often you post and yet offer no real football input most of the time...its usually some lame post like yours here or some gibberish post about Dike Leach, your man crush.
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You still haven't addressed why it's a good idea to throw loads of money at Matt Cassel...
Whoa now, I have never said we should...I only posted the info I got indicating we might have interest. As much as I like Barbara, I am not sold on Cassel as QB, at least not in Buffalo. He has potential, but I never said lets throw a huge contract at him.
I was expressing that Trent has done nothing to cement himself in as our guy for the future and has some serious question marks now. Showing some promise during moments of games doesn't make you a Pro Bowler in the making. He has way more queston marks than certainties, in fact, about the only thing certain about Trent is his fragility to this point.
Overall QB play is the BIGGEST reason why we did not make the playoffs...I didnt say "only" reason, but it was the biggest reason.
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anyone watching the highlights of the Eagles fans talking smack in the bar during the game...hahahaha, hilarious...talk about eating crow...
"E A G L E S, Eagles"...classic
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I've been on Warner's jock all year, so yes he should be a first ballot Hall of Fame player. Plus if he comes back next year, and that's still up in the air, and the Cardinals improve on offense even more then Kurt will go in.
Warner is the one is got the Cardinals to were they are at. The Cardinal defense didn't get on 3-and-out the whole game did they?
Yeah, I totally agree...Leinart doesnt get them in the playoffs let alone the SB in my opinnion
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i think he's probably in, the numbers are there, he has a super bowl win under his belt and is now playing in his third
whats going to be interesting is will the Cards give him the new contract he wants considering he is a free agent, his age and the fact that they have Leinart on the bench
I think the Cards offer him the right contract...the bigger question is will Kurt retire, especially if he wins it all...
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There is no reason not to? After the 5-1 start,Trent sucked. He didn't just "struggle at times" or "have a tough stretch",he sucked. Even during the 5-1 stretch he was inconsistent. Poor starts and struggling against blitzes followed by some nice late game comebacks,he showed promise but has MUCH more to prove before we can call him a franchise QB. The poor play at the QB position was the single biggest reason we missed the playoffs. Not DE,not C,not TE not even the coaching staff.QB. IMO we need to bring in somebody and have a true open competition for the starting QB position. If Trent wins the job,great,if not we move on with a new starter.
Great post and my feelings exactly...
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Do you think cements his status in the HOF regardless of the outcome of the SB? There is no question if he wins the SB, but what if they lose...is he still a lock?
I think he was alredy deserving, I mean he is the 4th highest rated passer of all time. I know he has had a lot of talent to throw too, but so did Aikman, Montanna, Young, Manning, etc, so that shouldnt be held against him. I mean, the guy throws a great ball, constantly hits players in stride, gets balls into tight places, and is just really accurate.
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"with the best WR in the NFL and a stud #2 WR."
I would argue that Boldin might also be the 2nd or 3rd best overall WR in the league...at the very least top 5.
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Could you imagine Brady passing to Moss, Welker AND TO??!!! What a nightmare that would be!
I dont think they attempt this...if memory serves me, TO and Moss are not exactly fond of each other...
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fixed hahahaha
its amazing how little you actually contribute to this board yet how often you post...its either something lame like this or another post about your man crush Dike Leach
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There is no reason not to because they don't have another player. Put it this way, if they had signed Kurt Warner, or a player of his ability to be the back-up this year, Trent would not be a guaranteed starter this year. The same way that Leinart wasn't a guaranteed starter in AZ although the team wanted him to be. If Losman played better in 2007, Trent wouldnt be the starter here either (but he obviously didnt). Trent has showed promise, and is pretty good right now. He still has a LOT of serious question marks going into his third season. I do expect him to be the starter in 2009 but that is only because I think we have several bigger needs and I dont expect us to have a viable back-up starter.
Good post...I pretty much agree with all of it. I too expect him to be the starter, however, I wont be surprised to see us take a QB in the first 4 rounds kind of like we took Trent right after JP had his best 8 game stretch and was showing real promise but still had plenty of question marks. Or maybe even bring in someone to push him for the QB spot through free agency
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I'd be pretty willing to believe that the agent made up the "3 year offer from Buffalo with a BIG signing bonus" to get Cassel to toe his line in negotiations to come with the Patriots. And Cassel told his mom and the mom told you. I don't believe that the rumor is actually true though.
This could be very well what happened...either that or the agent is looking for a 3 or 4 year deal to try and get Cassel 3 paydays instead of 2 and she just assumed the Bills would offer this if they were interested.
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I am not disputing Center, DE, and TE are not higher priorities, I totally agree with you on that aspect. I am just saying, to this point, Trent's total body of work has not shown me that QB is not also an issue. Has he shown promise at times, yes, but he also SEVERELY regressed and has made a clear indication that he also can not stay healthy...hes been hurt just about every year going back to high school...thats a long track record.
I am not saying he wont develop, but to say that we are set at QB is just as absurd as saying he wont develop into a good QB. I know young QB's struggle, but its not his struggles that have me concerned. It was his regression and how horrible he handled adversity on the field to the point he literally became gun shy. You can SEE the hesitiation in him on the field, thats a bad sign for a young QB, especially one who's best characteristic was supposed to be his poise.
By the way, everyone blames JP for at least 4 of our losses this year. Well why was JP on the field? Because Trent was hurt, again.
History shows that this is a high probability year to year that he will miss 2 or 3 games, possibly more, based on his injury history. That means every year, there is a good chance we will need to depend on a backup QB to get us 2, 3, maybe even 4 or more wins. That means, even if Trent becomes good, if he cant stay on the field we are relying on a back up QB to get us in the playoffs and win us a handful of games each year...another reason why I believe this guy is no where near entrenched as our QB of the future...
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You are exaggerating his ineffectiveness. At no point did he comes close to the horribleness of J.P. Losman. Even in the Cleveland game he wasn't as erratic as J.P. is on his best day and came back strong in the second half. If the offense was tailored around Jackson and Lynch, I don't see any reason why he can't be an adequate starter with a veteran backing him up.
Honestly if you take out the three game AFC East stretch plus the first half of Cleveland I'm sure that the stats are going to look all that bad. He didn't look even as close to as bad as you try to claim he did in our wins and he didn't look as bad in the late losses as he did in the middle ones.
Center, Defensive End, Tight End, Wide Receiver, Guard, Fullback, Linebacker, Safety, Defensive tackle are all higher priorities in my book.
I am not disputing Center, DE, and TE are not higher priorities, I totally agree with you on that aspect. I am just saying, to this point, Trent's total body of work has not shown me that QB is not also an issue. Has he shown promise at times, yes, but he also SEVERELY regressed and has made a clear indication that he also can not stay healthy...hes been hurt just about every year going back to high school...thats a long track record.
I am not saying he wont develop, but to say that we are set at QB is just as absurd as saying he wont develop into a good QB. I know young QB's struggle, but its not his struggles that have me concerned. It was his regression and how horrible he handled adversity on the field to the point he literally became gun shy. You can SEE the hesitiation in him on the field, thats a bad sign for a young QB, especially one who's best characteristic was supposed to be his poise.
Why NE is gonna franchise Cassel - read this
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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Fair argument, however, those stats dont illustrate the vast difference in his QB rating during the first half or even the first 3 quarters of most those games from the fourth quarter. When I said he was average, I am grading his overall performance...never did he become dominant in those games...never did he put fear in anyone...
And his completion percentage and INT ratio is misleading because he makes SO MANY safe short throws that DONT continue drives. So yes, his completion percentage looks good and his TD to INT ratio looks good, but truthfully, he was not very affectvie through large parts of those games.
Thats like saying Shaquile Oneal is a great shooter becuase his FG percentage is so high...its so high because of his high amount of high percentage short shots...Trent's reluctance to try and push the ball down field greatly inflates his comp. percentage...and guess what that does? It inflates your QB passer rating too...again, very misleading as he was no where near as affective as the stats show and he was doing against teams with a combined .300 or so winning percentage and some of the worst pass defenses in the league...