Alphadawg7
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Interesting stuff from Wendling in this Scout article.
Here's what he said...
"We want him as our head coach here. I don’t think there’s a guy in that locker room that would tell you differently.”
Obviously, it's been well-documented that the players love Jauron but this was a pretty strong quote. The defensive effort Sunday kind of showed that I thought. (Loved Wendling's pick too. I want to see that guy on the field more.)
Come on, I know somebody out there is getting soft and wants Jauron to stick around! Someone? Anyone? Bueller? OK...
I dont want him to stay, I prefer a more aggressive attitude and approach to the game. But I will say this...If anyone takes an objective look at all of our losses since our 4-0 start last year, there is 2 very consistent things that show up in all but 2 of the losses.
1. We were in each game late in the game, sometimes even leading. But all of them excpet 2 were winnable late.
2. In almost every loss, the play from the QB, both Trent and JP, was below average or down right atrocious.
Say what you want about the O line, but last year it wasnt bad and got better as the season wore on. This year, its had its moments, but honestly I think Trents inability to slide in a pocket makes it look worse than it is. To me, the bigger problem this year is the penalties and thats to be expected with such an inexperienced O Line. Not saying they are good by any means yet, but I think judging by how much better the O Line looked against a Jets team that made us look like a High School team with Trent under center, I think shows the fact this O Line could be better with a QB who knows what he is doing back there and doesnt bail on a play the first sign of pressure.
So, I firmly believe we easily make the playoffs last year with a solid QB. Dont buy it? Then look up the QB stats in those losses, almost all were atrocious, especially all 6 divisional games (Trent alone had 3 TD's and 10 turnovers in the 4 he played).
Looking at this year, with a more productive QB we are 4-2 or 5-1 (with likely wins against NE, Cle, and NO).
Not supporting DJ here, but honestly, the QB position is the bigger reason we lose. The rest of the team isnt great, but somehow we are always in these games despite generally inept play by the QB.
Again, I would rather see us bring in one of the many talented coaches available as I dont trust DJ's gameday philosphy at all, but for me, if I had to choose between a new coach or a QB, it would be QB all day long. That being said, I do belive we can make the playoffs under DJ if we had a QB. Dont buy it, well DJ did it with a less talented team in Chicago. I dont think he can win us big games, but playoffs would require a few more wins only.
Think about this: DJ, with inept QB's, has gone 7-9 for 3 years in a row...are you telling me no one beleives a real QB in todays NFL isnt worth 2-4 more wins?
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Oh, and LV and anyone else bringing up his passing stats...I love how you conveniently leave out the 4 dropped passe and the overturned completion to Evans. If you had all those back in his completion % is 60%. He made some bad throws, but he also made some great throws. He had more good throws than bad throws, and they were aggressive throws. Not to mention, how few reps he has had with that unit as a backup.
If I was to put money on who will have a higher completion %, I would put it on Trent given the absurd amount of safe, unproductive throws he makes.
If I was to put money on who will get more yards, easily Fitz.
If I was to put money on who will get more passes to our WR's (out best playmakers), easily Fitz.
If I was to put money on who will score us more points, easily Fitz.
If I was to put money on who will have more turnovers, easily Trent
If I was to put money on who will get sacked more, easily Trent
If I was to put money on who will slide in the pocket giving his recievers time to get open, easily Fitz
Adding that all up, I would put my money on Fitz to produce more and win us more games than Trent. And I dont even think Fitz is very good, just that Trent is that much of a problem.
Even if Fitz does well, I still want us to get a QB in the draft or FA as I think is upside is limited (but hey, he could surprise, who knows. Look at how Warner came out of no where, stanger things have happened). But, its not that Fitz is that good, its just that Trent is just that bad in so many areas.
Bottom line, THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH TALENT AND WEAPONS ON OUR OFFENSE FOR US TO SCORE SO LITTLE OFFENSIVE POINTS...I mean we lost to a QB who completed TWO, JUST TWO, freaking passes under Trent. That should have been the end of him right there.
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Yes, if it wasn't for Edwards, we'd suddenly have a serviceable OLine, a successful coordinator and receivers who catch everything.
Damn you Trent!
Seriously, please show me where I or anyone said Trent was our only problem Simon...
If you dont think Trent has been a major factor in piss poor production on offense then you dont know nearly as much about football as you like people to think. No one, including myself, is saying Trent is our only problem. But considering he is the one who touches the ball 100% of the time on offense, he has been a major reason.
Not to mention, for someone who claims to be so knowledgable on football Simon you can possiblytell me you did not notice a DISTINCT positive influence in our offense once Fitz came into the game. The biggest difference was he was getting the ball into our play makers hands. The throw to Evans was perfect as hit him in perfect stride for a TD. When was the last time you saw Evans get to show case his true speed like that? Trent never hits Evans in stride because he doesnt throw with any anticipation and gives up on the routes after 2 seconds in the pocket and immediately looks for the checkdown. This has even been showcased on breakdowns on NFL shows. The other throw that was ruled incomplete was also a perfect throw again hitting Evans right where he needed to. It was overturned, but that wasnt because of the throw.
Add in that Fitz had no sacks and made our O line look a lot better against a defense that previously made our offense look like a High School offense with Trent at command. It gave up no sacks under Fitz as he moved around the pocket more.
So, no one is saying Trent is the only problem, but its pretty clear he was a big problem and considering with all our problems as you like to point out, we are still in every game. So I ask again, with a little better play at QB, why is it so inconcievable to think we can win some games?
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Don't forget Maybin would already be a star and no one would get injured. Finally a QB that can do all those things!
You see giant leaps made on message boards...that's kind of what they are there for, but wow...Fitzpatrick as the savior. Bills nation has officially jumped the shark.
Seriously, do you even read? Not one post on here has said Fitz is a savior or even any good. All that is suggested is that he is better than Trent and that could be the difference in winning a few of these close games we have lost to bad teams.
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Jeff Hostettler and Earl Morral were backups and they did OK. A backup engineered the greatest comeback in NFL history. Not saying Fitz is as good as these guys, but there was a reason they weren't the starter on their team. Sometimes guys rise to the occasion when you wouldn't think they could. Let him play the games, then decide.
Pastise* 59
Titans 0
Bills 33
Bucs 20
Seahawks 41
Jaguars 0
Thats just the ones I can remember off of the top of my head over the last few weeks.
11-5 and losing the AFC Championship game by 9 to the eventual Super Bowl winner is "medicore" (sic)?
I agree that Dick has cost us many games. Weak QB has as well. We probably could have won that Clowns game if Trent didn't throw 3 interceptions in the first 4 possessions. Cowboys game 2007 we may have won if Trent doesn't throw a pick 6 instead of leading us to TD to go up by 13 in the 4th quarter. If Trent doesn't overthrow a wide open TO against the Clowns 2 weeks ago we probably win that one. If JP doesn't fumble against the Jets we win probably. On and on. If Fitz can play half way decent we may be able to win a few more of these close games. If it were up to me, Dick's gotta win 9 to keep his job. And then it's a maybe. If I can strike a deal with Schottenhiemer or Reeves or Ditka or Fassell or Cowher or Holmgren or Callahan or Vermiel or Martz or Fisher or Billick, and probably a few others, I still pull the trigger anyway.
Great post...thats all I was speculating on...
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I'm not sure the Bills will be favored in any of those games.
Did I say favored or did I say they are winnable?
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So, you think it's not that far fetched? lmao. So, you think Fitzpatrick is worth 7-3 the rest of the way to get the Bills to 9-7? The difference is Fitzpatrick?
Not the line, the LB's, the depth, the coaching, the schedule, or FOX News. You actually think "it's not that far fetched" that Fitzpatrick playing "average at best" meaning he may be even to play less than average, that he's the difference?
Ryan Fitzpatrick right? By the way, what do you consider "average at best"? He was 10-25 last week.
Have you looked at our schedule? We have 7 winnable games in front of us (Indy is the 7th as they likely wont play any starters that last game). Have you even watched the Bills games? Because if you had you would have seen this "terrible" team of ours (as you claim it to be) in position to win the games late in the game DESPITE poor play by our QB's in just about every loss since our 4-0 start.
Literally, just a little better QB play in a LOT of those games and we win many of them. So given our weak schedule, if Fitz can be solid there is no reason to think we cant win some games here. I am not saying we will, and I am not saying Fitz will be good, I am saying its more possible than you think.
Not to mention, Fitz has won his last 4 games he's been in (3 he started and the Jets game last week), and last year was his first action as a starting QB really when he had to fill in for Palmer. And yes, you bring up his passing stats all the while ignoring the fact he has had no time to develop any chemistry with any of the first string offense as this is his first year in Buffalo and he has been working with the second unit. He made some bad throws but he also made some really good throws. Anyone over the age of 6 could see a positive difference in our offense once he came in.
By no means do I think Fitz is anything special or even very good (although you never know...look at what Todd Collins did in Wash that year...career crappy QB played pretty solid filling in for Campbell that year). But given this teams ability to stay close with a struggling offense, does it really seem that outlandish that if Fitz is solid we might win some games given who is on our schedule?
And if we do, does that mean Ralph goes after a QB instead of a coach in the offseason and gives DJ one more year given he is still under contract so long?
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Mark my words, if we win 6 or more games, Jauron stays. Maybe they make some coaching staff changes, but Jauron stays.
Thats what I was saying in this thread. If Fitz can play well enough for us to finish 8-8 then does that buy DJ some more time...Whats scarier is looking at our schedule we have a lot of winnable games ahead. KC, Tenn, Car, Hou, Jax, Mia, Jets...we could even win the Indy game as Indy likely rests all their starters most of the game in the last week...
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LMAO at how most people in this read cant read. Seriously, I didnt say it was going to happen, all I did was say what happens IF...you guys know what the word IF means right...Fitz starts and he does just enough some games. I dont expect the usual suspects of Trent ball washers like Magox, Dog1487, etc to understand that because you would sell your mothers for a dollar if meant you could create another excuse for Trent sucking on the field.
But, reality is that our offense has been inept becuase of Trent and JP and yet we still had an opportunity to win all but 3 of our losses going back to our 4-0 start last year. On that basis alone its not unreasonable to think we could potentially win some games if Fitz is even average at best.
I am not saying we will, I simply said what happens if we do. Unfortunately, Senator, Magox, Dog14787 amongst others dont know how to discuss a thread...in fact, not one of your posts had anything to do with the topic. This isnt a thread on the odds of it happening, it was a thread about what happens if it does happen, and personally its not that far fetched.
I dont even know why I bothered defending the thread here as the only people bashing it are the same idiots that said Trent was better than Cutler, Trent pwned Brady, Trent is better than Jim Kelly, and one moron who doesnt know how to make a post without posting a link to Leech.
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You've gotta be kidding me right? We are talking about the QB who came in and went 10-25 for 116 yards with one TD and one INT, right? The same inaccurate QB, who was less than average with Ochocinco and Housh last year right? Somehow this is the QB that is going to get DJ to 9-7, as you stated (possibly 9-7) while taking this god awful team we have to a 7-3 record the rest of the way.
It's amazing that fans are so shortsighted. They kind of remind you of the ESPN poll that flucuates every time the Bills either win or lose a game. I watched a game Sunday, where the Jets were so absolutely bad at QB, that they tried numerous times to give us a win, yet, we failed to grab the reigns until the Jets finally rolled over and died. It had almost nothing to do with anything the Bills did on offense or defense.
Then we have our fearless 1-4 head coach who plays it conservative AGAIN by setting up Lindell for a long FG with swirling winds to win the game, and he missed again, just like vs. Cleveland last year.
Seriously, what does it take to break some of you? This team sucks. This coaching staff sucks. Period. They are one of the worst teams in the league, clearly. And yet, Fitzgerald, who was allowed to leave the Bengals, despite Carson Palmer coming back from a major injury will lead us to a respectable season?
I bet we get steamrolled this week. The Panthers will run all over us, and Steve Smith made a statement and will most likely have a huge game. My goals have changed. I hope the kids on the O-line keep improving and gain much needed experience. I also hope our head coach continues to make himself look like an idiot so that he will be gone for sure, at the end of the year, if not sooner.
Focus people. Our team is awful. It's way deeper than QB. Way deeper. Fitz is not the answer.
Seriously, if we are as bad as you make us out to be then why were we so close in most of our losses? In most of those losses we had well below average QB play from Trent and JP...
I am just saying it wont take more than average QB play to get a lot of those wins back, so if Fitz is even average its not outside the realm of possibility we could win some games. And if we do, what happens to DJ? Seems Ralph is giving him every chance he can to hold on to his job...
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There you go again flip flopping...the other day you said it was Trent and called for Fitz...now its DJ...
And I love how you say me thinking is scary when I was right on everything you called me retarted on...you thinking is scary, just read your quote in my signature...
Uh, what are you talking about? I said there you go flip flopping again as you always do and you bring up name calling...Who said anything about name calling? And if you want to bring that up, you are the one who started with that garbage a long time ago because I criticized Trent.
If you are going to provoke someone with insults and name calling then dont get butt hurt when someone reacts to it...
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First off, let me say I NEVER said Fitz was any good, the jury is still out whether he can be a solid QB or not.
Second, in almost EVERY loss going back to last year, we were close and in postion to still win late in the game despite poor QB play in the majority of them. So, given our level of competiveness while dealing with ineptness from Trent and JP, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that even if Fitz is average we could end up winning some ball games.
Make no mistake, I have little faith in Fitz and dont see him as our starting QB, but with all these weapons he could end up doing ok. All I am saying is WHAT IF Fitz ends up being average or solid (he has won the last 4 games hes been in) and we end up winning a few more games than expected and finish the season strong? Would Ralph use that as an excuse to keep DJ?
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There, all fixed.
(you thinking is a scary thought)There you go again flip flopping...the other day you said it was Trent and called for Fitz...now its DJ...
And I love how you say me thinking is scary when I was right on everything you called me retarted on...you thinking is scary, just read your quote in my signature...
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Think about this for a second, kind of a scary thought...
Most of everyone can agree that Trent has been holding this offense back (along with JP when he was here) going back to the middle of last season. Not that DJ has been any good himself, but its pretty obvious with better QB play last year and this year look very different.
If Fitz comes in and plays well enough to win a couple games before Trent comes back, it is quite possible Fitz may remain the starter (assuming he does play well which is still yet to be known), especially given how many jobs are on the line. So if we start winning some games with say average play by Fitz and finish strong, could that be enough for Ralph to rationalize that with a real QB he could win with DJ and then go after a QB via FA or Draft and keep DJ one more year?
I really hope and pray this doesnt happen with all the incredible talent of HC's available, but given DJ is under contract for 3 years I could this happening...
I am pretty sure Ralph wont fire DJ mid season (or he would have already) unless he does it on the bye week. So, more than likely DJ will have the rest of the season. We have been close in many of our losses going back to last year despite poor play by the QB, so its not unrealistic to think we could finish 8-8 or 9-7 with average to solid play by Fitz (which who knows if he is even capable of it yet).
So, could it be a double edge sword to root for Fitz to do well as it could lead to another season of DJ when all this coaching talent is out there?
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Admittedly I didn't listen to any talk shows today or any of the press conferences yesterday but I've been searching the web and haven't seen a thing on this. The hit was late, should have been flagged and fined. Would have been an ejection if it had been on Tom Terrific. Anyways would appreciate knowing if anyone has heard anything on this.
Why? Nothing illegal or dirty happened on the play. It was just football.
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you're a one trick pony poster. The spectrum of your insight on football is limited to one thing and one thing only, and that is how ****ty TE is. Other than that, you have very little value.
In regards to me saying that TE is better than Cutler, I never said that, so go back to the Cutler thread and show me where I said he was better.
But you see what you want to see Alpo, and nothing more.So, go on ahead and backtrack from what you said about the O-line and DJ, because at the end of the day, your one track mind and narrow scope of Bills football talk has earned you the name of Alphadouche and for that, I say bravoooo
You cant be serious...you said numerous times you would rather have Trent over Cutler, and even went on and on about how Trent beat Cutler in Denver, etc etc...if you expect anyone to believe you didnt say Trent is better than Cutler than you should just get a new account. The depths of you ignorance is astounding...
And, you are such a moron. I can show you in so many threads where you said verbatim about how when I wasnt talkiing about Trent (becuase you said I was so wrong about Trent...lmao at you for that) that I had a good insight and knew a lot about football. I mean you literally said that numerous times genius...Now you say, I was spot on about Trent but somehow know nothing else? Geezus, you have spewed so much made up gibberish and BS on here you cant even remember that crap you say anymore.
Not to mention, you used to agree with me in just about every thread except Trent. Funny, as soon as Trent confirmed all the flaws you disagreed with all summer, you now just try to insult me and all the others who were right about Trent to make everyone forget what an idiot you were with all your Trent claims this summer...pretty pathetic...
Dude you are seriously too much man...go find someone else to try and spew this gibberish on to. You make me miss Skooby
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Both seem to be Ball-hawks, but they may be weaker against the run.
Byrd also seem to bring a load when he hits people.
Your thoughts??
Honestly, I think the best combo would be Whitner at SS and Byrd at FS. Whitner brings better run support and Byrd has the ball hawk skills.
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coming from the guy who said our offensive line and coach are better than average.
Once again, you ignore all the facts and add nothing to a thread but an insult because you are incapable of discussing the football information presented to you so all you know how to do is make stuff up...your total MO...
Seriously, why do insist on making things up or manipulating stuff? I mean that with all seriousness...I want you to answer that question because you do it all the time and get called on it all the time. Is it because you made such an azz of yourself with all your outlandish ball washing claims about Trent and how he is better than Cutler and so many others all the while insulting those you saw his faults? Is that the only way you can save face is by trying to make things up to make others look dumber than you (which is almost impossible by the way).
I said I felt our O Line has more talent than last year and by years end I think we would be a better unit (assuming we stayed healthy, which we are not). I still stand by that. Wood and Levitre will be very good, Handgartner is definitely an upgrade, Bell has potential if he can get more disciplined, and Butler is more valuable than people give him credit for and this new guy we got from GB is quite promising. With more time together, a real QB behind them, and Butler back, this unit has real potential.
On DJ, I said that he gets more respect around the league then he does with the fans. But, that was before this season, so I doubt that is still the case now.
Man, just when I think you have reached the limits of your stupidity, you stoop even lower and continue trying to spread BS...seriously, stop stalking me and go on and waste someone elses time with your made up gibberish...I mean this with all sencerity when I say you are a complete waste of time...
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:w00t: hahahahahaha - LMFAO again! You're one funny - and stupid - dude.
Surprised you bothered to reply without adding a link to a Leech clip cuz thats all you know how to do for one...
And I assure you there is nothing stupid in the post you are replying to, which is why you dont have the intellect to even respond to it in any way other than saying its stupid.
I dont know why they keep posters like you and get rid of Skooby...
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awww alphapooo, looks like somebody got there panties all up in a bunch, of course you are assuming that we wouldn't of gotten a first down when in fact we had been running the ball effectively through out the game, and of course you are assuming that we only burn 18 seconds including the punt . Of course you are assuming that if we wouldn't of gotten a first down that they would of most likely of had to drive 70 yards with no T.O's within (realistically about 1:20).
That's a lot of if's alpha. But go on believing what you want, and talk about the pot calling the kettle black, you criticize Senator for insulting you, when your previous three posts are insulting other posters.
Dumbass
Lets see, you dont think 1:20 (which there is no way 40 seconds is run off on 3 short run plays and a punt moron) is enough time for Brady to go 70 yards with Moss and Welker? Might be the dumbest thing I have ever seen here...
And as far as how well we were running the ball...first off, anyone who has ever played a single down of football knows full well that things are different in the final 2 mintues, especially when the D knows you are going to run the ball. So thanks for clearly establishing your lack football knowledge once again...not to mention winners step up when it counts, and I would put all my money on the NE defense to get a stop over our inept offense to get the first down in that situation every single time.
Secondly, we were no where near as effective offensively in the second half as the first...
Man, I swear Magox, I dont think I have ever seen one intelligent post by you, ever. Probably most of your posts are just insults to people who dont ball wash Trent like you do...
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LMFAO at how effin' dumb this post is - if McKelvin does the touchback, Buffalo has the ball - not New England*.
You make a ridiculously stupid assumption that Buffalo would not have been able to protect the ball for two minutes and advance it for at least one first down, since - up to that point - we hadn't committed a single turnover and were averaging 4.7 yards per carry on the ground.
At the very worst, Moorman's one of best punters in the league and would have put NE* back at least at their* own* 35 instead of our 20 - and they'd* have had no timeouts since they* would have burned them during our drive.
You post some pretty stupid s__t - usually dripping with arrogance - but this is about the dumbest post you've ever put up here.
My gosh, I suspected it, but now I know it...you cant read. I never said NE was getting the ball back I said there was PLENTY of time for NE to get the ball back with enough time to win the game. Let me make it easier for you to understand:
1. If Leodis downs it in the endzone, there is 2:06 left on the clock giving NE essentially 4 timeouts. If Buffalo doesnt get a first down, something we were stuggling with in the second half (not to mention the tendency to get penalties) then NE gets the ball back with about 1:45 seconds and a full timeout still and solid field position. If you dont think thats enough time for Tom Brady then you are too dumb to be allowed to post on this board...
2. If Leodis runs the ball out and doesnt fumble, there would be abotu 1:58 seconds on the clock and NE would still get the ball back with about 1:40 seconds and no time outs...again plenty of time for Tom Brady who has done it many times and was driving all 2nd half on us.
So, please, spare me the insults. If you are going to insult the post at least have a leg to stand on rather than just sticking your stank foot in your mouth...
Oh and about us using up the clock...if we were so productive on offense we would have put more points up than 17, more importantly, we wouldnt have so many short drives in the second half, you know the same half we are talking about here. If you think its a sure thing we would have gotten a first down, you are dumber than I thought, and I already thought you to be pretty dumb...I mean all you do is post an insult or post a link to your boy crush coach...
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The only thing more ridiculous than this post, is your spelling of ridiculous. You must have gotten that from here: http://www.unwords.com/unword/rediculous.html
Another reason why you are a worthless poster who adds nothing to a thread...I swear, you are incapable of every actually adding anything worth reading to a thread...you just throw out some weak attempt at an insult and thats it.
The fact that you think the game was over if Leodis doesnt fumble is just further illustration to why you are worthless on this board. Do you realize that both NE and Buffalo had a drive with the time that was left on the clock after Leodis fumbled? But you are right, 3 timeouts and 2 min left in the game wasnt enough time for NE to stop us and get the ball back...your ignorance runs so deep its laughable...
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How is it dreaming that we lost a game we led the entire way because of a stupid play by one player?
lmao off at how dumb this post is...not sure what is dumber, the original post you put in this thread or this one.
1. We left a lot of points on the field by stalled drives, costly penalties, dropped passes, and Trent just not seeing anything down field. We should have been up by more, so to say we lost becuase of one play might be one of the top 10 dumbest things I have seen on here...
2. The game was FAR from over if Leodis doesnt fumble...ton of time and lots of timeouts for NE and Buffalo had struggled to get first downs in the second half.
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we are currently in first place in the AFC East??? The Pats* and Jets would have 2 divisional losses and we have all home divisional games left (well, Toronto against the Jets). I'm not prediciting anything but I'm just saying. You never know.
Do you realize how stupid that is? NE had essentially 4 timeouts and just over 2 min left in the game if Leodis does the touchback. If he runs out and doesnt fumble, they have 3 timeouts and almost a full 2 minutes left. That game was FAR from over if Leodis doesnt fumble...but based on the general rediculous posts you seem to frequently make I wouldnt expect you to understand that.
Could Fitz actually save DJ's job?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Lets see, all I hear about Trent for the apologists all off season is how he had only 23 starts under his belt for why he has stunk (more turnovers than TD's coming into the season). But now you want to call out Fitz last year which was essentially his first season as an actual starter in only his 4th year in the league? How does it get to be an excuse for Trent and not Fitz?
Did you know that prior to Fitz coming in last year that Carson Palmer had lost all 4 games he played in before injury and had only 3 TD's and 4 INT's. Not to mention he was sacked 11 times in four games? In fact, he had 4 games with less than 150 yards passing, including 1 with less than 100 yards passing. So even he struggled in Cincy last year with all those weapons (which he had years of chemistry with) and that so called "better O Line"...
Back to this better O Line Cincy had lasy year as you claim. It was one of the worst in football last year:
Sacks allowed: 49
Yards per rush as a team: 3.6 yds per rush on 420 rushing plays
So please, on what grounds did Cincy have a better O Line than we do now? Or can you just admit you pulled that out of your ass?
Not to mention, that under Fitz the O line gave up no sacks in 3 quarters to a team that usually owns us in that dept. In fact, O Line has only allowed 3 sacks in last two games and seems to be getting better as our rookies get more experience. It was only one game (well 3 quarters) but with a QB who knows how to slide the O Line looked much better...so maybe our O Line has looked so bad becuase it was both young and had a QB who didnt know how to move well in the pocket?